VERY BAD NEWS > Fiance Visa REFUSED...

[New Shoes]

OK guys,

Here is a draft I did this afternoon. I have missed out ref numbers etc, it's just the main body of the letter.
I've tried to be factual, cool and respectful.

Let me know what you think.......
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I am writing to you in my capacity as Miss XXX’s partner and also as her visa sponsor. She recently submitted a fiancé visa application, which unfortunately has been declined. Please find attached a copy of the attached Notice of Immigration Decision.

The reason for the refusal was stated as being that the application did not meet the requirements of UK Immigration Rules paragraph 209 (iii) which reads; each of the parties intends to live permanently with each other as his or her spouse or civil partner after the marriage or civil partnership.

As part of the visa application, we enclosed the notice of the provisional booking of the wedding showing date and time of the ceremony as provided by my local Register Office in the UK. As the wedding ceremony is intended to by a simple affair with only my parents and close friends in attendance, I did not obtain provisional or confirmed bookings for the wedding meal at a restaurant, wedding flowers and cake.

I have now obtained these booking receipts and have enclosed them with this letter.

The reason for writing to you is to respectfully request if you could possibly consider a review of the application in regard to these additional documents, and in particular, reconsider the decision.

Miss XXXX and myself are at a stage in life, both being in our mid forties, where we have both been lucky enough to find someone again with whom we have a meaningful and loving connection and relationship with. I hope we can be given the opportunity to be allowed to spend our lives together.

As an aside, being a XXXXXX with XXXXX County Council’s XXXX Services Department, it certainly is not in my interests to break any laws, least of all immigration laws.

I hope that this letter and the enclosed documents showing proposed arrangements will meet with your approval and form a suitable basis to enable a re-evaluation of the visa application.

[keithAngel]

OK guys,

I am writing to you as Miss XXX’s partner and also as her visa sponsor. She recently submitted a fiancé visa application, which has been declined. Please find attached a copy of the attached Notice of Immigration Decision.

The reason for the refusal was stated as being that the application did not meet the requirements of UK Immigration Rules paragraph 209 (iii) which reads; each of the parties intends to live permanently with each other as his or her spouse or civil partner after the marriage or civil partnership.

As part of the visa application, we enclosed the notice of the provisional booking of the wedding showing date and time of the ceremony as provided by my local Register Office in the UK. As the wedding ceremony is intended to by a simple affair with only my parents and close friends in attendance, I did not obtain provisional or confirmed bookings for the wedding meal at a restaurant, wedding flowers and cake.

I have now obtained these booking receipts and have enclosed them with this letter.

I respectfully request that you review your refusal of the application with regard to these additional documents, and return a favourable decision.

Miss XXXX and myself are at a stage in life, both being in our mid forties, where we have both been lucky enough to find someone again with whom we have a meaningful and loving connection and relationship with and we both wish to be given the opportunity to Marry and be allowed to spend our lives together.

As an aside, being a XXXXXX with XXXXX County Council’s XXXX Services Department, it certainly is not in my interests to break any laws, least of all immigration laws.

I hope that this letter and the enclosed documents showing proposed arrangements will meet with your approval and form a suitable basis to enable a sucsessful re-evaluation of the visa application.

Ive tweaked it a bit for your consideration polite but firm they work for you

[New Shoes]

Thanks Keith....

BTW, once the letter is completed and I have the additional receipts, my plan is to sent the letter and photocopies of the receipts by courier directly to the Entry Clearance Manager at the Brit Embassy in Manila (the actual appeal info says don't send originals with the appeal).

A copy of the letter and the original receipts I'm going to send to my gf.

What do you think about that? Or should I send originals to the EC Manager....... might be a better idea?????

[keithAngel]

Well you can scan them into your pc i guess and get further originals if required

We are just talking about confirmations from resturants wedding cake makers etc right?

If the eco wants to contact any as long as they confirm u should hopefu;lly be alright

If any of your text chats talk about your joint desire to live together etc i would resend highlighted if its a test of commitment you are just pointing out they got it wrong Good Luck

[keithAngel]

Well you can scan them into your pc i guess and get further originals if required

We are just talking about confirmations from resturants wedding cake makers etc right?

If the eco wants to contact any as long as they confirm u should hopefu;lly be alright

If any of your text chats talk about your joint desire to live together etc i would resend highlighted if its a test of commitment you are just pointing out they got it wrong Good Luck

[New Shoes]

Thanks for the info, I'll have a look at our web chat logs abnd print off any that mention marriage / living together.

Hopefully I'll be able to get the provisional bookng receipts today...........

[New Shoes]

Well, I've got a few things sorted, quote for the flowers, confirmation of boking at a restaurant (all on letter head paper). I'll be getting a quote for a cake on Friday.

I've been trailing through our YM chat log archive and ahve been printing off screen shots of us talking about marriage / having a future together. (Initially I'd just printed off the first6 page of our chats to show the frequency on contact).

I'm going to send these additional documents along with the letter to the Entry Clearance Manager using a parcel / document courier.......

[keithAngel]

Go for it We all wish you both the best

[New Shoes]

OK, so I've got my additional documents ready.

Is the Entry Clearance Manager at the British Embassy? At this address:-

British Embassy Manila
120 Upper McKinley Road
McKinley Hill
Taguig City 1634

I'm going to arrange courier collection for tomorrow if possible......

BTW< My girlfriend gave the VAC two folders one will all the photo copies inside and one with the originals inside. She has had the folder containing the originals returned to her. Am I correct in thinking that British Embassy will be keeping the photocopy folder stored for their records?

So when the Entry Clearance Manager gets my letter and additional documents, he my cross reference to the other folder?

[fhara]

im sorry to hear that but if u think u have more evidence and sure that they made a wrong decision then try to make an appeal or if not think its better you go to phils and get married there...good luck!

[keithAngel]

cant answer that ring them or email

[New Shoes]

Well, letter to the Entry Clearance Manager and additional documents comprising of quotes for flowers, cake, confirmatin of restaurant table booking and about 7 or 8 Yahoo Messenger chat logs from several different months showing my and my gf talking about marriage in the UK and our life after being married........ all ready to be collected by courier.

Fingers crossed this will be enough to convince the ECM to reverse the decision.....

[grahamw48]

Best of luck.

If worse comes to worst, there's always your local MP.

[PAT]

Sorry to hear about this....| cant still think why they refused your girlfriend application coz you did the same thing as we did before.I hope your appeal be a success....well it will be...

[New Shoes]

Well.......

According to the tracking, my letter and additional supporting documents are now at the DHL facility in Manila. Hopefully they'll be delivered to the embassy tomorrow.

The letter addresses the issue the ECO had with not believing that a wedding will take place if my gf was granted a visa. It is also requesting a review of the ECO's decision by the EC Manager. I've also enclosed provisional/confirmed bookings for flowers, cake and restaurant and also YM chat logs showing us chattting about marriage and life together after marriage.

I'm not sure whether I should send the Entry Clearance Manager an email indicating what documents my gf and I had submitted to meet the 10 sections of the visa checklist.

I'm not sure if this would be of any benefit as I would've thought that the visa application file will state which sections had appropriate documentation submitted. Also the embassy or VAC still have our folder will the documents and photocopies where necessary. This could be used for reference/double checking

I don't want to muddy the water......

What do you guys think?

[Terpe]

.................I don't want to muddy the water......

What do you guys think?

New Shoes, this can only be your own decision.
Nobody else can say.

When it was me (in 2002) with ECO issues, I decided to 'muddy the waters' as much as I could. Simply because I really thought the ECO was completely and totally wrong at that time. I could not let it go so I did everything and whatever to make my point.
Of course I was really worried that I had ruined the chances. But I just felt so strongly we were right and the ECO was wrong.

New Shoes search your own heart and your own evidence. Plenty of people demand reconsiderations and appeals and WIN.

Sincere best wishes mate, no genuine couple deserve poor judgement.

[grahamw48]

They DO retain the original documents you submitted.

[keithAngel]

Yo give em hell New Shoes they were wrong

[New Shoes]

The embassy reveived the letter and additional documents on Monday morning. I got an email from the embassy's Correspondecs Team stating...

" Thank you for your letter and fax which was received on 18 April, on your request to consider the application of Ms. XXXXXX.

This has been forwarded to the Entry Clearance Manager for their review and decision."

So, it's just a matter of waiting, hoping and praying we get the original decision reversed

[jen28]

will include u and ur fiance in my prayers. best of luck! i'm sure they will approve the visa of ur fiance.

[Ladybug_sim]

It is a sad thing to hear but always remember that trials in life are always there just make strong and go on... We hope and prayed that your appeals be succeed.

Best wishes and good luck New Shoes
ladybug and sim11uk

[stevie c]

Good luck new shoes I'm sure the decision will be reversed

[New Shoes]

Thanks for the support everyone, I appreciate it.

Steve: I sure hope so!!

[Arthur Little]

Once again ... MY very best wishes that all the effort you've put into having the previous decision overturned will soon bear fruit.

[madmitch537]

hi sorry to hear your bad news i had a similar experience but for other reasons the appeals system i think gave 30 days we did consult an attorny in manillla who the embassy advised who seemed to know her stuff frustratingly we cldnt resolve our issue within the 30days or after paying a fee to extend it another 30days end of the line there so we have to start afresh
as it costs so much its very frustrating let alone the dissapointment
the appeals form we had did have the same address and info to where it should be sent but we never got that far
i was always led to believe proof of regular contact proof of financial help was what was needed to support visa application not proof of wedding plans i would like advice too as we are about to submit a fresh application we are unlikely to marry here in uk but in phils at later date so any advice from previous experience would be great
the best of wishes and luck to you and again sorry to hear of your situation
regards mark

[grahamw48]

I think it's best to marry in the Phils first.

They certainly know you've met her then.

After that, finances, job and accomo.

[Howerd]

I have read this thread a few times now; here are my thoughts...

The ECO seems to be giving two reasons for refusal. The first is that you have not provided any evidence of provisional wedding plans and the second is that you have no intention of living together after marriage.

If you did provide evidence of provisional wedding plans I would suggest that the ECO failed to see such evidence in your submitted documents; maybe you forgot to include the evidence or it got lost somewhere, or the ECO did not look very carefully? It is a pity that you did not apparently include another copy of the provisional arrangements with the registrar, when you asked for re-consideration of your case.

Strangely, the immigration rules do not (as far as I can see) put any onus on the applicant to prove any intent to get married, other than making an application for a fiancée visa. The applicant does have to have an intent to live with their spouse permanently after marriage, so, I guess, the ECO should look for evidence of an intention to live together, but how can you gather such evidence?

Certainly, if you got married in the Philippines you would overcome the first hurdle of proving an intention to marry as you would already be married! You would also be with your wife for some time much nearer a date for an application for a spouse visa, certainly a lot less than one year, and that should assist any application for a spouse visa.

With a Filipino marriage certificate in your pocket, you would then only have to convince the registrar of an intention to live together permanently. Maybe there are a few ways of doing that (though not all of them may be applicable in your case)

1. Your wife could apply for jobs in the vicinity of where you live, before making any spouse visa application - maybe even getting work with the same company your work for.

2. If your wife is bringing any children to the UK, you could provide evidence of, for example, written enquiries to local schools for the child's placement.

3. Setting up a joint bank account - this is possible with some banks - before your partner comes to the UK.

4. Writing a Will, that details how your estate will be managed should you die before your wife has leave to enter the UK.

5. Putting your house into joint names – although this may be very problematic if there is still a mortgage on the property.


I am in a similar position to you and, having read your story, it makes me think that getting married in the Philippines is really the best option.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to prove an intention to live together, I would love to hear!

[madmitch537]

hi
im no expert but although my girls visa application was refused august last yr due to another issue they would of excepted the application if the relevant papers where obtained but sadly it wasnt long enough 30days being the appeal period so we are applying again now
but we never submitted any proof or a pending wedding so i find it strange why you need this kind of info as none of this information provided is legally binding for something that has not taken place yet
do you or can you get a photo copy of the original application form ???
just to check how it was filled in
who filled it in your lady or a third party?/?
was it submitted to the relavant agency directly or posted securely by her ???
as i think ive read correctly from other members it seems that proof of a pending wedding is not needed
samples of contact are needed with internet being the easiest method then its easy to produce via a printer
proof of money sent is also usefull i believe
and also the cost rose dramatically last yr when the tories took over in an attempt to poss deter bogus applications and remember its now policy to restrict entry im sure they do this with any minor discrepancy as they keep your money and still no visa
the whole process is not exactly advertised it seems it is deliberately made difficult to get the right info regarding applying for any visa
the process seems like a good money spinner to me i wonder how many applications get the visa first time now im sure users on this site would like to know numbers
good luck with your application regards mark

[madmitch537]

my advice to any one making any application make a copy of each page for future ref if possible consult advice although every application is going to vary in there circumstancies the onus is upon the applicant filling the form clearly and accurately the many stories i have heard clearly demonstrate these people wont just give you a call to clarify info it will be rejected its policy to do so
remember no refunds are given which i personally think is very wrong esp at todays prices i could understand keeping part of the payment for the processing but not all
how do others feel about it
best wishes regards mark

[madmitch537]

I think it's best to marry in the Phils first.

They certainly know you've met her then.

After that, finances, job and accomo.

hi
i was always led to believe that your wife or fiancee on a visa could not work in the uk the visa was valid for 6months only after a continuous marriage of three yrs then she could be able to be granted the next stage to remain in the uk and work etc
any advice or experiences would be great to hear
the visa system is the most daunting thing that really worries me in all this has it put others off going through this process
best wishes mark