Advice needed (pretty urgent)

[fred]

I need a favour... Your advice!

We know a Fil Brit couple that are in a precarious situation due to many different reasons and circumstances and have a 14 year old son..
Eric is in his 70`s and is pretty frail..His wife is in her 50`s and they have been living here for just over 2 years..
they have been married for 16 years with 14 of those years living in Hertfordshire UK.. Obviously Emmy was living and working in the UK with ILR staus.
Eric wished for them to move here in Bohol and build a house on his wife`s land with savings they had and then live off his 550.00 Pound pension here in Bohol..

Now the problem started with Erics health situation and at one point he was at deaths door in a local hospital .. I advised them that it was better they went back to the UK with their boy who to be Frank never really seemed happy here..
The biggest problem was that Emmy had stayed here longer than she should (2 years) and was told that she would have to apply for some kind of visa as her ILR was no longer any good.. She says she had valid reasons for the ILR regs re: overstay but has since been refused two appeals..
Her main concern then was to get Eric and the Boy back to the UK which they have just managed to do..
The two of them are now living in a rented flat (550.00 Quid a month) in Cornwall. The rent is paid by Erics pension which leaves little for other living expenses.

Emmy was basically stuck here with no cash but as luck would have it she ran into an old friend that usually works in Saudi that viewed and purchased her property here (2.6 million) She gave her 5,000 Quid deposit which she sent to Eric in the UK.. She has 100,000 Peso`s in her bank account here with the balance of her house to be paid in 100,000 a month instalments..

She came to our place today completely confused and depressed asking what is her best course of action..
Other Brits here have advised her to get Eric to sponsor her for a new spouse visa etc..
I told her I`d ask the experts here on this forum for advice on her behalf before she even thinks about applying..
I want her to get this right so hopefully you lot can guide her..step by step..
My main concerns for them are monetary and how best to present their application with the amount of cash they have..
Also,will she still be expected to take the English test considering that she lived and worked in the UK for 14 years?
Any questions you may have for her,I will text to her and await reply..

Cheers guys,

Regards,

Fred.

[BoholoX]

Fred
Sorry I cant advise but the best to your friends as it sounds a little messy.

[fred]

Thanks..Messy indeed.. I think their saving grace maybe the equivalent of 30K UKP`s at their disposal.. Thing is,its being paid in instalments..
He just asked his family if they could take him and the boy in to free up his pension and use the address on his application for him,his Mrs and the young lad..
The family refused apparently.. Didnt want to get involved for some reason.
Can you imagine that happening here?? I think not!

[stevewool]

sorry to here this news , indeed what a great family he has , i bet they will be there if money was invovled for them to receive

[Terpe]

fred, just a couple of quick clarifications.

You mentioned she had a couple of refused appeals. Appeals for what?
Is her ILR now officially revoked?

At first 'glance' I have to say it looks grim.

There may be some slim chances to find possibilities within immigration rules, I'll do some detailed reading later, but a step-by-step easy process is not going to happen.

Just off the top of my head, she will need to make visa application.
That means all the usual requirements,docs, fees and yes the English Test.
However, I am concerned about just how UKBA will view their intention to settle in UK.
I'm also concerned about what these failed appeals are connected with.

Finally, excactly when did they leave UK?
Did they ever go back for holidays etc?

[Terpe]

fred, just a couple of quick clarifications.

You mentioned she had a couple of refused appeals. Appeals for what?
Is her ILR now officially revoked?

At first 'glance' I have to say it looks grim.

There may be some slim chances to find possibilities within immigration rules, I'll do some detailed reading later, but a step-by-step easy process is not going to happen.

Just off the top of my head, she will need to make visa application.
That means all the usual requirements,docs, fees and yes the English Test.
However, I am concerned about just how UKBA will view their intention to settle in UK.
I'm also concerned about what these failed appeals are connected with.

Finally, excactly when did they leave UK?
Did they ever go back for holidays etc?

fred,
I came by this and wondered if it might be at all helpful:-

"Returning resident – have you been away too long?

Today we are delighted with the outcome of a difficult ‘Returning Resident’ case which was allowed by the Immigration Judge at the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal (AIT), Hatton Cross.

In January 2010 we received a call from a couple who longed to return to the UK but had discovered that their Indefinite Leave to Remain status had expired due to their prolonged absence. Understandably they were very upset and confused as they had not realized that ‘Indefinite Leave to Remain’ was anything other than permanent and could be lost.

When they departed from England in 2003, they initially planned to be away for a short period however due to family circumstances and work commitments, they were unable to visit the UK at all. Coming up to retirement, they had commenced preparations to return however their plans had been thrown into chaos when they had been told that they did not have an automatic right to return.

The rules governing returning residents are paragraphs 18 and 19 of the Immigration Rules HC 351, namely:

18. A person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a returning resident may be admitted for settlement provided the Immigration Officer is satisfied that the person concerned:

had indefinite leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom when he last left; and
has not been away from the United Kingdom for more than 2 years; and
did not receive assistance from public funds towards the cost of leaving the United Kingdom; and
now seeks admission for the purpose of settlement.
19. A person who does not benefit from the preceding paragraph by reason only of having been away from the United Kingdom too long may nevertheless be admitted as a returning resident if, for example, he has lived here for most of his life.

We instructed Counsel, Patrick Lewis who is at Garden Court Chambers to assist with the drafting of the application and representations as we knew from experience that the Entry Clearance Officer (ECO) would seek to automatically refuse the application and the matter would proceed to Court.

The representations accompanying the application confirmed that our clients satisfied all of the requirements of the rules save for the fact that they have been outside the UK for a period exceeding 2 years and we requested for the ECO to exercise discretion and directed the ECO to refer to the Immigration Directorate Instructions [“the IDIs”] that identifies a number of factors that are relevant in the exercise of discretion.

Additionally, we referred to the case of R v Secretary of State, ex p Ademuyiwa [1986] Imm AR 1 as being relevant as it was in this case that the court identified a number of factors to be considered by a Home Office official or ECO when a persons absence exceeds 2 years.

Those factors are as follows:

1.the length of his original residence here;
2.the time the applicant has been outside the United Kingdom;
3.the reason for the delay beyond the 2 years – was it through his own wish or no fault of his own?
4.Could he reasonably have been expected to return within 2 years?
5.why did he go abroad when he did and what were his intentions?
6.the nature of his family ties here – how close are they, and to what extent has he maintained them in his absence?
7.whether he has a home in the United Kingdom and, if admitted, would resume his residency.
Their application was as expected refused by the ECO and the grounds of appeal drafted and sent to the AIT. It’s a long and slow process for an entry clearance appeal to be listed before the AIT but finally the day arrived and the couple along with three witnesses attended at Hatton Cross.

The Immigration Judge considered all the material submitted by the couple in support of their appeal and heard the evidence of the witnesses. In his findings and conclusions notes that the he is satisfied that the respondent (ECO) failed to exercise his discretion properly and that the inflexible non-discretionary application caused injustice and undue hardship.

We’re looking forward to celebrating with them when they return to the UK."

I found it here

[mickcant]

I know many here are against benifits, but should he not at least be entitled to some help through housing benifit?

He is trying to pay his way but if his rent is the same as his income, he needs help.

Mick.

[fred]

I know many here are against benifits, but should he not at least be entitled to some help through housing benifit?

He is trying to pay his way but if his rent is the same as his income, he needs help.

Mick.

Mick...She has told the old fella not to claim benefits under any circumstances as it could badly effect any new spouse visa application..
At the moment..She is supporting him!

[Arthur Little]

I mean are the Authorities SO lacking in compassion ... that they'd stand in the way of an old and ailing man being re-united with his nearest and dearest?

[fred]

I mean are the Authorities SO lacking in compassion ... that they'd stand in the way of an old and ailing man being re-united with his nearest and dearest?

I agree wholeheartedly Arthur.. Why on earth they will not even look at the fact as a matter of course that they were a previous perfectly functioning family for 14 years in the UK is beyond me!!
She lived as a working person in the UK for all those years and now they want her to take a "life in the UK" test?
This is the most important reason that I left..It seems that the bureaucracy and powers that be have put us Brits in the hands of a lot of moronic robots and call center agents from India.
What ever happened to the British joined up thinking brigade??
Im sick to death of it and I dont even live in God forsaken place.
Makes me so ....... angry.

[Terpe]

Mick...She has told the old fella not to claim benefits under any circumstances as it could badly effect any new spouse visa application..
At the moment..She is supporting him!

There is no problem for a British Citizen receiving any benefits to which they are entitled. Period.

Also the fact that he is receiving benefits/public funds does not necessarily mean he would be unable to support the applicant.
The issue becomes one of being able to clearly demonstrate that any sponsor who is dependent on the state will be able to to support another consumer for any length of time.

The UKBA will look to see if the sponsor might need to claim additional public funds to support the applicant if leave to enter granted.

The funds from the sale of the house may likely become important as 'Sufficient Maintenance' can be supported by:-
The sponsor
or
The applicant's own funds or funds available to them
or
Any combination of applicant funds and sponsor funds
or
Some form of 3rd party support

Just to confirm that the financial standing 'test' needs to show disposable income of about £106 per week for a couple and an additional £62.33 for each dependent Child (up to 20 yrs)

[fred]

The issue becomes one of being able to clearly demonstrate that any sponsor who is dependent on the state will be able to to support another consumer for any length of time.

Does this include Housing benefit?
I need to let her know that its either fine for him to claim it (again)...or not.

[Terpe]

Does this include Housing benefit?
I need to let her know that its either fine for him to claim it (again)...or not.

fred, housing benefit is tricky and complex.
Of course he is entitled to claim now.
The issue is just what happens when his wife arrives and how the council re-calculates.
Better to stop the claim a couple of weeks before she arrives on a restricted visa. Then make a new claim. Just based on the fact this benefit has complex conditions for a couple and she could find herself in some problem due to lack of understanding by council.

[Terpe]

I feel that time needs to be spent looking at the financial status just to be sure that all bases are covered and that the ECO cannot find reasons to refuse.
Simply because financials before she applies/arrives will change upon arrival and the minimum disposable needs to be exceeded or maintained.

[sars_notd_virus]

what a very complicated case fred, so much have been change for 14 years as far as the immigration ruling is concerned , am afraid she will have to take ang passed the English test , and apply for settlement spouse visa via the ILE (Indefinite Leave to Enter) route and endorsement.

she also needs the LIfe in the UK test certificate for the ILE but she can choose to travel or visit to uk to take the LITUK test or if she satisfies all the requirements for ILE (except the LITUK test) she will be granted 27 months leave to enter and take and passed the LITUK and then apply in the UK for ILR.


Joebloggs will be more expert in explaining everything regarding this matter.

[fred]

However, I am concerned about just how UKBA will view their intention to settle in UK.
I'm also concerned about what these failed appeals are connected with.

Thanks Terpe.. How else could they view their intentions? Obviously they want to be together as husband and wife with their son in the UK as they did previously for 14 years.

About 6 months ago they tried to go back to the UK but the R.P immigration noticed that her ILR was no longer any good so they had to get partial refunds on their tickets..
She then explained to the UKBA that the reason she was unable to leave on time was because she had delays with her new Filipino passport application.. They revoked her ILR and said she could appeal..She did so and was refused.. She tried again with additional documents trying to back up her story but has just been refused again... I say "refused"... They are simply refusing to not validate her old ILR..

No...They never left the R.P...Here for the duration.

[Arthur Little]

Fred, ... would the fact that Eric is now in his 70s, frail - and possibly with a [fairly] limited lifespan ahead of him - not hold at least SOME sway?

[grahamw48]

Her husband will still have to show income if he is sponsoring her.

Right now he is entitled to child tax credit of about £50+ a week, Child Ben' of £20 a week, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit...apart from his pension.

He and his boy are entitled to have their income made up to around £300 a week altogether.

I think that if anything, this thread demonstrates to all who have Filipina wives here in the UK the importance of taking advantage of British Citizenship and passport ASAP.

[Arthur Little]

Right now he is entitled to child tax credit of about £50+ a week, Child Ben' of £20 a week, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit...apart from his pension.

He and his boy are entitled to have their income made up to around £300 a week altogether.

Yes ... ... you'd have thought he'd ALSO be entitled to receive 'Guaranteed Pension Credit' with him being over the age of 65.

[mickcant]

Yes ... ... you'd have thought he'd ALSO be entitled to receive 'Guaranteed Pension Credit' with him being over the age of 65.

I cant get 'Guaranteed Pension Credit' and am 67
Mick.

[fred]

Her husband will still have to show income if he is sponsoring her.

Right now he is entitled to child tax credit of about £50+ a week, Child Ben' of £20 a week, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit...apart from his pension.

He and his boy are entitled to have their income made up to around £300 a week altogether.

I think that if anything, this thread demonstrates to all who have Filipina wives here in the UK the importance of taking advantage of British Citizenship and passport ASAP.

OK...Thanks guys... I text her about the child benefit and housing benefit.. She says..(and check this out you will be amazed)
He is a Yorkshire man born and bred..(Old school) but since reaching his present age is perhaps struggling quite a lot with the modern ways of doing things...Personally,apart from his pension I doubt he has ever claimed anything in his life without the help of his Mrs..(she is obviously the one in the family that sorts out just about everthing with a form involved..A lot like my wife)
She says he went down and asked about help for his housing benefit and explained about his and his boys situation to the best of his ability...The people he spoke with advised him that if he applies again in those circumstances he and his son could be "deported"..
Its bizarre I know but perhaps those interviewing him were not aware of his Northern accent or could tell that he was of indigenous decent!!
He is ,as I said ,very frail and obviously a little nervous of authority,rules,regs ect and told his wife what I just told you..

Terpe.
The issue becomes one of being able to clearly demonstrate that any sponsor who is dependent on the state will be able to to support another consumer for any length of time.

Thanks terpe..

As I say..They have a potential sum of nearly 30 grand GBP..
Is it better to deposit this cash (as it comes in) too Eric`s account in the UK or declare this in the application as her own funds from the R.P?
This woman is very much on her own at present and I promised her I would help her look for the best strategy before applying for a new spouse visa which will cost her around 58.000 PHP..

Me? I have no clue,but Im a quick learner..

regards and thanks all..so far.
Hopefully Joe will be along sometime soon...

[grahamw48]

He should immediately claim all benefits that he is entitled to.

Age concern (or whatever they call themselves now) will give full assistance free of charge.

His entitlement will be based on his circumstances NOW, not on what may or may not happen in the future. Any future increase in his future assets or income doesn't need to be notified until such changes actually occur.

He needs to have less than£16,000 in savings. His property that he normally resides in (if owned) is not taken into account.

Overseas property IS asked about though, so that needs to be in his wife's name to keep things honest.
I imagine it will be, since poriners are not allowed to own property there...as we understand it.

He needs to declare any income from abroad as ZERO. ...Why ? His wife owns the property, and strictly speaking any income from it is hers and hers alone.

Then again, the authorities can't have it both ways. They either recognise his wife and her circumstances or they don't .

I would suggest that the property is sold (funds in wife's bank) to help pay for costs involved in bringing her BACK to the UK.

I am optimistic for the couple, providing proper advice is taken and this particular Yorkshireman puts good sense and the needs of his family above pride and 'traditional' attitudes.

[grahamw48]

I had to go through a lot of this nonsense after my ex buggered off to Sweden and left me (thankfully) with custody of our son.

Strictly speaking she should have been paying child maintenance to ME for the past 3 years. Yeah right.

[fred]

Graham.. What if she sends 15,900 Quid to his account and then sends in the statement balance from her own account?
That way he can get housing benefit..
Thing is,does she or he have to declare on application that he is receiving housing benefit?
I really cant get any of this wrong... Ive just cracked open a small bottle of Tanduay so perhaps it might be wise to just shut up and listen!!!!
Bukas nalang..
Where the .... is Joe today?
Cheers,

Fred.

[grahamw48]

As long as he is showing less than £16,000 in savings that should be fine (they don't check normally, but he has to say how much he's got in the bank on the bens application form).

This figure applies to all benefit claims.

They should declare everything on the visa app' form...of course.

For one thing it will show the powers that be just how much she NEEDS to be with him.
Probably save the stupid govt. money too, if she gets a job here.

On the visa side of things I will defer to Joe though, as I'm not up to date.

The main point I was trying to make was that IMO it would be wiser to keep their finances (as husband and wife) totally separate for the purposes of getting him the benefits to which he is ENTITLED.

[fred]

Just wondering (while I can still type)..
Does the old Englishman looking after a young English boy with his mother stuck in Pinas because she neglected her ILR have any kind of human rights in this type of situation?
Or is it a requirement for this type of thing to be from a non indigenous race first?
WTF went wrong with our country?

Think I`ll call the UKBA.
Press 1 for pointless advice...Press 2 For Inconvenience,
Press 3 If you are obsessive-compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly.
If you are co-dependent, please ask someone non British to press 2.
If you have multiple nationalities, please press 3, 4, 5, and 6.


Rant over.

[somebody]

A few points of speed reading though would make sense to investigate housing benefit as every penny is going to count. The british citzen is allowed to claim but the wife is not. Like with child benefit I understand the British Partner can claim but the non Brit can't..


Also although its best the Brits bank balance especially if not working looks healthy if the applicant can bring savings to show for the first six months of life that they can survive will also count in any application..

Also yes i understand there are visa for keeping a family together one of the Wifes friends from her hometown was in a sticky situation and applied for one to stay with her british born baby son in the Uk. But she was still here and a slightly different situation..

If they were living in Phills for more than fours years together im pretty sure you could apply for a spouse visa pretty easy Gotta dash off in a moment but will try and have a think about it as I cover a bablikayan box in sticky tape!!!

[fred]

Thanks Andy..
Do you reckon they will need proof of being together for 16 years or will a marriage contract suffice or are chat logs the norm? (sounds humorous I know)
What about old UK work references etc?
Any supporting document suggestions would be a great help.

When I got married,we posted the banns,bought a ticket,got her passport ILR stamped and that was it.
Sounds like a lot has changed since then.

[grahamw48]

All details of her previous stay in the UK will be on public record (as well as her old passports).

[fred]

Thanks Graham...Will they automatically look or should she politely point this out..
Thanks again for the ideas..Its appreciated.