filipino honesty

[pigsinspace]

Carried from another thread so more people might read it and start a discussion..

Originally posted by admin@Jul 5 2005, 07:31 PM
Davao clean!!! EEEK!!! It's all brown & dusty.

I love the Philippine houses. A mansion, then next to it a single floored iron hut, then next to that a 4 storey breeze block house that looks like it will collapse if someone sneezed

I was in Davao for 2 weeks, and seen 2 white people. I had to go out with the same driver every day. As for crime, we got got robbed in my wife's aunties house by the maid!!! :blink: She nicked a pair of earings, good job they were only 9ct Gold as she'd get bugger all for them there. Needless to say her job didn't last long.

Quoted post

Thats just 1 person stealing NOT the entire Filipino race (in davao)

when asawa and I were in Tacloban with her sister and her hubby (yanks) the yanks left a money belt with over $5000 under the pillow when they checked out (how stupid is that?) the belt was found by the room boy who would not give it to my wife (we were all en route to Angeles city) but the yanks left earlier...

he insisted on getting a trike to the airport and so retuen it personally, my wife accompnied him..

when the belt was returned to the 'yank' he said thanks and gave the room boy $5

I was totally disgusted, $5000 cash is more than the room boy earns in Probably 10 years he could so easily have stolen it...

After more hassle from me and asawa and his asawa the room boy was sent $200 (imagine losing all your cash on holiday what would you do?)

Anyway the roomboys honesty made it in the local press and was picked up by local govt then the govt tourist agency. he was given a honesty award and consequently he now works in Dubai in a large hotel..

so lets not tar all Filipinos with the same brush...

I have been to the Philippines 20 plus times in 21 years of marriage to asawa and I have never once felt threatened.. not in Manila, cebu ,davao, bagio or Angeles Ciry,

yes I have been ripped off by taxi drivers in Manila but now I speak a little Tagalog I find it helps..

Thanks.

[walesrob]

Maybe I was very very lucky, but when Elsa and I arrived at her parents house in Palo (Tacloban, not Cebu) last year, within 4 hours, Elsa's bag containing passport, money, jewellerly, birth certificate, etc was stolen, but by some miracle, they missed my wallet containing credit cards and money, they also missed my Olympus camera, my portable cd/radio, passport, driving licence, etc.

I still think to this day that it was an inside job - ie one of family (why would they target Elsas stuff but leave mine alone even though its worth a lot more?).

My time in Palo and Tacloban was fine, I never felt threatned at all, but I did get very fed up with street kids - "peso mister, peso mister", and "Hey Joe" - the fact that you are white means by default you are American. Having said that, I do prefer the pace of life in the provinces, Manila can be so annoying !!

[Admin]

Anyway the roomboys honesty made it in the local press and was picked up by local govt then the govt tourist agency. he was given a honesty award and consequently he now works in Dubai in a large hotel..

The good samaritan happens once so the press makes a big thing of it. I returned a handbag with credit cards in last year to a womans house, I never got in the papers.

Bribery & fraud is a crime in the Philippines yet it goes on everywhere, especially if your a Westerner. It starts as soons as you get off the plane, to when you leave. The airport charges you an illegal tax, but unless you pay, you can't leave the country. This is forum experience, not just mine.

If it's so safe why do Westerners live in walled castles with guards, and not with the general population? I wonder

[pigsinspace]

Originally posted by admin@Jul 6 2005, 10:08 AM
The good samaritan happens once so the press makes a big thing of it. I returned a handbag with credit cards in last year to a womans house, I never got in the papers.

Bribery & fraud is a crime in the Philippines yet it goes on everywhere, especially if your a Westerner. It starts as soons as you get off the plane, to when you leave. The airport charges you an illegal tax, but unless you pay, you can't leave the country. This is forum experience, not just mine.

If it's so safe why do Westerners live in walled castles with guards, and not with the general population? I wonder

Quoted post

Airport departure tax is not illegal..

check your ticket next time you fly from a british airport... you will find that if you fly yp the far east you will be charged £85 departure tax...

or what tax are you saying is illegal?

[peterdavid]

Originally posted by pigsinspace@Jul 9 2005, 12:43 PM
Airport departure tax is not illegal..

check your ticket next time you fly from a british airport... you will find that if you fly yp the far east you will be charged £85 departure tax...

or what tax are you saying is illegal?

Quoted post

I think the tax to which Keith is so correctly referring is the extra, cash only "travel tax" levied at the Philippines airport ONLY to filipinos (not to foreigners) because the filipino lives abroad and therefore buys her plane ticket in the country in which she lives. She is effectively penalised for travelling home to visit her family in the Philippines. The ticket she buys has already had tax paid on it, in her country of residence. All taxes have been paid. The extra illegal tax levied in the Philippines is just a scam against filipinos who visit their own country. They don't dare try and charge foreigners this tax as they wouldn't get away with it. It is an exercise in supreme crab mentality from the Philippines, effectively punishing the filipino who leaves the Philippines to move to a different country away from all the mess and hardships filipinos trapped there have to endure.

It's not the paying of a departure tax which Keith is saying is illegal - it's the fact that despite the fact it has already been paid to the country to which it is due at the time of the purchase of the tickets, the Philippines forces filipinos to pay it a second time just to escape back to the country she lives in. Proof that it has already been paid rests in the fact that they dont dare try and make foreigners pay this tax, only filipinos.

One of the basic principles of taxation is that taxation has to be equitable, fair and applied evenly, or the people won't pay it. Taxing people on the basis of their nationality, as the Philippines does, just to escape, defies every one of these basic rules and this fundamental lack of understanding of basic economics probably goes a long way to explaining why the Philippines is in such an economic mess.

You're right, airport departure tax is not illegal - it's just the second, duplicate, double taxing of filipinos only which is illegal. Why would the Philippines do this to their own people? Talk about picking on the easiest victims. It is just an extension of the same victimisation the corrupt Philippine government forces their citizens to suffer every day.

And not only that - there is then an EXTRA cash only airport fee on top!! Although this one is levied at everyone, it does smack of the Philippines taking its last chance to screw everyone out of their money one last time before they manage to escape back to civilisation.

[peterdavid]

Originally posted by walesrob+Jul 6 2005, 09:12 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(walesrob &#064; Jul 6 2005, 09:12 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe I was very very lucky, but when Elsa and I arrived at her parents house in Palo (Tacloban, not Cebu) last year, within 4 hours, Elsa&#39;s bag containing passport, money, jewellerly, birth certificate, etc was stolen, but by some miracle, they missed my wallet containing credit cards and money, they also missed my Olympus camera, my portable cd/radio, passport, driving licence, etc.

I still think to this day that it was an inside job - ie one of family (why would they target Elsas stuff but leave mine alone even though its worth a lot more?).
[/b]

Probably. Seems to fit with the general filipino definition of that overused obligation of "helping your family" which is used to justify every possible category of dishonesty, corruption, emotional blackmail and deception.

<!--QuoteBegin-walesrob@Jul 6 2005, 09:12 AM

My time in Palo and Tacloban was fine, I never felt threatned at all, but I did get very fed up with street kids - "peso mister, peso mister", and "Hey Joe" - the fact that you are white means by default you are American.

Quoted post

[/quote]

So annoying isn&#39;t it. You&#39;d think they&#39;d never seen a foreigner before. I know the average squatter family has little awareness of the world beyond their barangay border (even their street), but in 2005 you wouldn&#39;t think anyone would still be fascinated by the sight of a "white man".

I agree though - I never felt threatened either. Well, not that I can recall anyway. Although some taxi rides got a bit hairy....

[peterdavid]

Originally posted by admin+Jul 6 2005, 10:08 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(admin &#064; Jul 6 2005, 10:08 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>The good samaritan happens once so the press makes a big thing of it. I returned a handbag with credit cards in last year to a womans house, I never got in the papers.
[/b]

Precisely. It&#39;s such a rare event it makes national news. What a sad indictment of the country.


<!--QuoteBegin-admin@Jul 6 2005, 10:08 AM

If it&#39;s so safe why do Westerners live in walled castles with guards, and not with the general population? I wonder

Quoted post

[/quote]

Not just westerners - any filipino with money shuts themselves away from the masses inside huge walled subdivisions, and tries to pretend the outside mess of poverty and destruction doesn&#39;t exist.

There&#39;s a reason why the Philippines has failed to attract tourists in the same way that other SE Asian nations have - it&#39;s too corrupt and it turns everyone off. Even Vietnam is overtaking it. Vietnam&#33;?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;

[Admin]

The ticket she buys has already had tax paid on it, in her country of residence. All taxes have been paid

Exactly my point. Glad to see you have WIDE open eyes like mine

[moi]

Originally posted by peterdavid@Jul 9 2005, 01:42 PM
I think the tax to which Keith is so correctly referring is the extra, cash only "travel tax" levied at the Philippines airport ONLY to filipinos (not to foreigners) because the filipino lives abroad and therefore buys her plane ticket in the country in which she lives.

The last time we went home, i never pay for the travel tax as the guy from the airport told me that i&#39;m exempted because i am a resident of another country but still have to pay 100 pesos for administrative cost whatever that is.

[peterdavid]

The last time we went home, i never pay for the travel tax as the guy from the airport told me that i&#39;m exempted because i am a resident of another country but still have to pay 100 pesos for administrative cost whatever that is.

Quoted post

So not only do you have to pay 100 pesos in order to NOT pay tax (what admin is involved in NOT paying tax - it&#39;s just another tax in itself), but it also appears the amount of tax levied is directly proportinal to the level of corruption inherent in the "official" at the airport who sizes up the filipino/a and decides on the spot how much he thinks he can get away with.....?

[pigsinspace]

i suggest if you dislike the Philippines so much you never visit the islands again....

I will be haPPY to draW my pension inthe Philippines and retire there...

[pigsinspace]

Originally posted by moi@Jul 10 2005, 09:47 AM
The last time we went home, i never pay for the travel tax as the guy from the airport told me that i&#39;m exempted because i am a resident of another country but still have to pay 100 pesos for administrative cost whatever that is.

Quoted post

100 pesos

1 whole pound

hey stay away its to expensive for u

[Admin]

hey stay away its to expensive for u

So you&#39;d be happy if EVERY Filipino while you were there charged you 100 pesos?? For entering a shop, pub, toilet, street, etc.....soon mounts up, and so does all the corruption you get charged for starting at the Embassy. The majority of tourists are to dumb to realise they are being taken for a ride.

I had to buy a computer part while I was there. I new I was being over charged so went outside and brought in the wife, they reduced the price by 500%&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :blink: So add 500% onto everything a non streetwise tourist buys, and they are getting ripped off more than the French farmers are robbing our taxes.

[peterdavid]

Originally posted by admin@Jul 11 2005, 07:39 AM
So you&#39;d be happy if EVERY Filipino while you were there charged you 100 pesos?? For entering a shop, pub, toilet, street, etc.....soon mounts up, and so does all the corruption you get charged for starting at the Embassy. The majority of tourists are to dumb to realise they are being taken for a ride.

I had to buy a computer part while I was there. I new I was being over charged so went outside and brought in the wife, they reduced the price by 500%&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :blink: So add 500% onto everything a non streetwise tourist buys, and they are getting ripped off more than the French farmers are robbing our taxes.

Quoted post

Precisely.

It wouldn&#39;t matter if it was 1 peso, it&#39;s the principle. No one likes feeling like they&#39;ve been ripped off, and you are made to feel that the whole time you are in the Philippines.

Most filipinas who have escaped here say they go home to visit their family, plus, of course, they have an emotional tie with the place of their birth, but other than purely human nostalgic reasons, most of them also go on to say that if their family were no longer there, they wouldn&#39;t ever go back.

Keith&#39;s computer experience is not just standard, it&#39;s almost every purchase, and even then you&#39;re lucky they haven&#39;t fobbed you off with a repackaged but faulty second hand item, knowing full well that you&#39;d need to return with half an army just to get a refund, and you still wouldn&#39;t get it.

We&#39;d all like to visit it more, but who wants to live in a place where honesty is almost non-existent, and the only time it is displayed it&#39;s such a rare event it makes the national news&#33;&#33; If they stopped lying and stealing from each other and every one else, the place would be a paradise. It has abundant natural resources which could propel it into an asian economic power and beaches which would attract people the world over if only they stopped the corruption and actually made it a pleasant place to visit.

It&#39;s not that we "hate the place" - we just find it so frustrating that a country that could have, and be, so much is destroying itself through it&#39;s own shortsighted, corrupt, greedy and selfish, self-interested mismanagement. If it weren&#39;t for that, I&#39;m sure we&#39;d all be relocating there like a shot.

[pigsinspace]

I suugest then that if the places you visit are so corrupt you try and visit different places.
In my 23 years of visiting the Islands I do not feel I have been ripped off Or stolen from.
yes taxi drivers and trike drivers try it on but they do in every capital city in the world.

the easy thing for those of you who do not like the PI is Do not go there...

its a simple choice really but one you have to make yourself..

do not return time after time and keep complaining about dishonesty and corruption.

just stay away....or try and visit different areas maybe more affluent areas.....then I am sure you will enjoy life there.. Or try and spak Tagalog... you will get a lot of respect fotr trying and you will not be ripped of for thr farang special price..

act gulible and you will be treated as such.

[Admin]

I suugest then that if the places you visit are so corrupt you try and visit different places.

We don&#39;t the wife had only been the once with me in the last 17 years, and was disgusted with the way the country had got, and never wants to return, nor her cousin, nor the other Filipino friends we have.

do not return time after time and keep complaining about dishonesty and corruption.

I&#39;ve only been once, but all the Filipino&#39;s I know lived there (otherwise they wouldn&#39;t be Filipino&#33;&#33

act gulible and you will be treated as such.

When&#39;s the last time you met a gulable? :lol:

It&#39;s all a matter of taste, and a semi-Western country fast descending into the third World is not for me, and the majority of Filipino&#39;s who leave (wonder why so many leave in the first place?)

[pigsinspace]

SO A SIMPLE QUESTION.........WHY DO U RUN A WEBSITE DEDICATED TO THE PHILIPPINES IF YOU HATE/DESPISE THE COUNTRY SO MUCH??

You cannot say all Filipinos are corrupt or theives..
that is like saying all musleims are terroriests or all black guys are rapists..

grow up.....

[smallfry]

I have to agree with pigsinspace on this one........

In a country where there is no safety net of a welfare state, if you dont earn, you dont eat. End of story &#33; To the majority of Filipinos we are all wealthy beyond their dreams, so why is this a problem ? Its the same in most arab or oriental countries.....thinking about it, its like it here too &#33;&#33;

You KNOW that just about everyone is going to try it on, or get something for nothing, so why worry ? For me its just part of the experience, and the onus is on you not to allow them to get away with it. You will never, ever, for example, get a taxi fare for the same as a local, but its good fun talking it down. I have never found it necassary to become unpleasant, but I have ALWAYS got the fare down a lot, and lets face it, its still a bargain by our standards here &#33; In any non western country you are expected to barter, and you would be thought strange if you don&#39;t.

You just have to learn to smile and walk away, because there is always plenty of choice. I dont recall being blatantly ripped off, or even being threatened. Although it is sometimes uncomfortable in unusual situations. Maybe I have just been lucky ? I have even walked through Santa Cruz in Manila at night with no trouble, but maybe its because I dont walk around looking like a tourist, IE sandals with white socks pulled up, The biggest Addibok trainers you can find, watches, jewellery, shorts, three cameras, a shirt that even a Canadian tourist wouldnt be seen dead in etc etc etc.

As for honesty, if you lost your wallet here in this country, do you really expect to get it back ? Nice if you do, but unlikely, and its just the same there. Out there I often walk around with an old wallet sticking out of my back pocket, but up till now its never been lifted.

Corruption ? Well, we are all grown ups, we know it goes on, and there is nothing that can be done about it. Its annoying I know, but all these little extras are still cheap by our standards, but I always make a point of telling the culprit that this is why foreigners don&#39;t want to come to the country, and why Filipinos will always be poor.

The only thing I dont like about it, is that its too damn hot and sweaty for my liking. Sure there are all the shortcomings, but to me its all part of the fun &#33;

[Admin]

SO A SIMPLE QUESTION.........WHY DO U RUN A WEBSITE DEDICATED TO THE PHILIPPINES IF YOU HATE/DESPISE THE COUNTRY SO MUCH??

It may have something slighty to do with helping them GET OUT&#33;&#33;&#33;

We&#39;ve had a number of marriages, and many ongoing relationships, we&#39;ve also helped many get through the minefiled of VISA processing more easily. That is why this site is here to help Filipino&#39;s who think the same way I do.

Every Filipino nurse I know (over 80), thinks the same, and although the UK goverment brought them over here for a &#39;short fix&#39; non will be returning, and most have now brought their families over,

I think the UK is utter crap as well, high taxes, kids who can commit what crime they like & get away with it, high taxes, no criminal justice systems, road built for horse & cart, corrupt EU goverments, paying farmers more for NOT doing anything, forcing misery on the 3rd World, etc, but I still live here, but then that&#39;s because I moved to a quiet village in the middle of nowhere, where the hardest drugs are aspirin :P

Not all Mancunians are bad, but I don&#39;t go to Manchester because of the crime (...and it&#39;s full of Mancs :lol: )

[walesrob]

Originally posted by pigsinspace@Jul 11 2005, 10:36 PM
SO A SIMPLE QUESTION.........WHY DO U RUN A WEBSITE DEDICATED TO THE PHILIPPINES IF YOU HATE/DESPISE THE COUNTRY SO MUCH??

You cannot say all Filipinos are corrupt or theives..
that is like saying all musleims are terroriests or all black guys are rapists..

grow up.....

Quoted post

You are missing the whole point of this forum. Its about lively discussion, points of view and information.

You will find the majority of this site contains useful information about the Philippines, about Visas and about the UK.

Keith, myself, Pete and all other members of this forum have their own opinions about the Philippines, you may not agree with what they say, but thats the whole point of the forum is it not?

I have been to Philippines a few times, and I witnessed first hand the corruption, the ripping-off of tourists, the pathetic charges for this, that and everything else. I have also seen a Philippines that is full of wonderful people who will do anything to help you, where everything is cheap (&#33 and the weather is perfect.

Like Keith said, there is good and bad in every contry, the UK included. There is also good and bad in the Philippines, there are good and bad people in UK, and there are good and bad people in Philippines. Welcome to the real world&#33;

[pigsinspace]

There is also good and bad in the Philippines, there are good and bad people in UK, and there are good and bad people in Philippines. Welcome to the real world&#33;

which is exactly what I have been saying.Please read the complete thread...

[Joey]

I think I have heard of this tax charged to Filipinos arriving to the Philippines. My wife went through that. They told her it was income tax for earnings abroad. She would not pay because she had not yet earned any money, being a stay-at-home mom. They told her to say she only earned a little money, so they could charge her just a little, but she was adamant that she didn&#39;t earn any money. They eventually let her go without charging her.

They can charge Filipinos because they&#39;re citizens. They can&#39;t charge foreigners income tax.

I wonder what would happen if I refused to pay that p100 charge next time I went there.

[Admin]

Welcome to the real world&#33;

....and WALES&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol: :lol:

[walesrob]

Originally posted by pigsinspace@Jul 9 2005, 12:43 PM
you will find that if you fly yp the far east you will be charged £85 departure tax...

Quoted post

and do you have evidence of this? I&#39;ve flown Hong Kong, Philippines and Singapore, but I never heard of this tax....maybe you refer to the standard travel tax which is paid on all journeys by air whether its domestic in UK or long-haul to Hong Kong. This tax has been in place for years and years&#33;&#33;

[walesrob]

Keith&#39;s signature:

Group: Admin
Posts: 717
Joined: 1-January 01
From: Singapore
Member No.: 3

so which part of Wales is Singapore? Or is it just wishful thinking :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Admin]

I spend all my free time there Off to Miami next though, time to visit the zillions of friends the wife has over there. Makes a cheap holiday, only need pay for the flight.

[Pauldo]

Originally posted by peterdavid@Jul 9 2005, 02:42 PM
I think the tax to which Keith is so correctly referring is the extra, cash only "travel tax" levied at the Philippines airport ONLY to filipinos (not to foreigners) because the filipino lives abroad and therefore buys her plane ticket in the country in which she lives.

Quoted post

There is no tax to Filipinos flying into the Philippines. This &#39;travel tax&#39; is paid by Filipinos LEAVING the Philippines, whether it be the first time or fiftieth. My wife paid it a few times when we first met, as we went to Thailand and SIngapore a few times on hols. After we eventually moved to the UK and returned to the PI later for a holiday she didn&#39;t have to pay because she had been overseas for more than a year. Something to do with not being a Philippines resident. They could still have asked for the money, but they checked her passport and told us we didn&#39;t need to pay. We would have been none the wiser if they had made her pay it

But, she did have to pay 100 pesos administration for them to tell her she didn&#39;t have to pay tax. Only 100 pesos, but half a days wages to the average unskilled Filipino :huh:
Cheers, Paul

[peterdavid]

Originally posted by Pauldo@Sep 4 2005, 06:56 PM
There is no tax to Filipinos flying into the Philippines. This &#39;travel tax&#39; is paid by Filipinos LEAVING the Philippines, whether it be the first time or fiftieth. My wife paid it a few times when we first met, as we went to Thailand and SIngapore a few times on hols. After we eventually moved to the UK and returned to the PI later for a holiday she didn&#39;t have to pay because she had been overseas for more than a year. Something to do with not being a Philippines resident. They could still have asked for the money, but they checked her passport and told us we didn&#39;t need to pay. We would have been none the wiser if they had made her pay it

But, she did have to pay 100 pesos administration for them to tell her she didn&#39;t have to pay tax. Only 100 pesos, but half a days wages to the average unskilled Filipino :huh:
Cheers, Paul

Quoted post

Any time we went on holiday from the Philippines, we (necessarily) bought the tickets from the Philippines, and the travel tax was included in the travel agent ticket price. We both had to pay it. No problems with that, most countries charge some form of travel tax.

However, when you buy a ticket from the UK, for example on a return ticket to the philippines, you pay your tax at the point of purchase at the UK. All taxes paid. On leaving the philippines however, you carry on through, but the filipina gets stopped and forced to pay MORE tax, at the airport, to the Philippines, despite having a ticket expressly saying "inclusive of all taxes", and this extortionate rip off is done to her purely because she has a filipino passport and they want to rip off as much money from her as possible before leaving. She may have escaped the country, but for as long as she has a filipino passport, they&#39;ll take as much money from her as they can any way they can.

This is the rip off that people are talking about - where the filipino/a is forced to pay tax, a second time, to a country she doesn&#39;t live in, when she&#39;s already paid the tax on the ticket already.

Think about it - if you lived in the Philippines, made all your purchases there, paid your Philippine GST, paid your income tax, and then got a demand from the British government to pay the equivalent VAT on all your philippine purchases, on top of the philippine tax you&#39;d already paid, just because you&#39;re british, would you be happy to pay it? I know where I&#39;d tell them to go and shove their tax demand. But you can&#39;t do this when you&#39;re trying to escape the country and back to your own life, and the Philippines knows it, and that&#39;s why they do it. It quite literally is, by definition, extortion.

It&#39;s not the amount that irks (it&#39;s about £20 or so) - it&#39;s the principle.

[peterdavid]

Originally posted by Pauldo@Sep 4 2005, 06:56 PM
But, she did have to pay 100 pesos administration for them to tell her she didn&#39;t have to pay tax. Only 100 pesos, but half a days wages to the average unskilled Filipino :huh:
Cheers, Paul

Quoted post

Almost as ridiculous as the "express fees" you are forced to pay at the Bureau of Immigration as a foreigner leaving the Philippines. This express fee entitles you to wait several hours in the same "express queue" as everyone else. It&#39;s about as "express" as a ride in a Jeepney.

[Pauldo]

This is the rip off that people are talking about - where the filipino/a is forced to pay tax, a second time, to a country she doesn&#39;t live in, when she&#39;s already paid the tax on the ticket already.

No she doesn&#39;t. If she actually lives overseas she is exempt from that tax, as I mentioned above. The tax is nothing to do with the ticket, as she would pay it if she were leaving by ship too.

It&#39;s not the amount that irks (it&#39;s about £20 or so) - it&#39;s the principle.

Try being an Indonesian, or working in Indonesia, and you&#39;ll be paying &#39;Fiscal Tax&#39; when you leave. This version of travel tax is US&#036;100 in that country. That&#39;s an awful lot of money to the average Indonesion, but they assume that because they are leaving the country they must be &#39;rich&#39;.