Buying A Condo Unit In Manila - Need Tips And Advice
Hi friends,
I am looking to invest in a condo property in Manila. Has anyone had any experience with this or can share advice / tips please? I really have no idea how it works. I've browsed through some gumtree-like ads in the Phils like sulit or olx etc but would be grateful if someone can share their own experiences.
Many thanks,
Daks
Invest, your making the wrong decision unless you're looking at somewhere in Makati, which would probably set you back in the region of £500,000 to £1,000,000 for starters.
Elsewhere the system is that if you buy the property before its built, which is a big risk but less so when contracted by the likes of SM Corp, you can get a reasonably low price, and once built 3-5 years later may make some profit selling the condo. Over time the condo will not really increase in value, the complex will be poorly maintained and then a new complex will be built nearby and yours will be the dirty old neighbour.
You won't find any magic investments in the Philippines, but can make a little bit of money on land in areas which may develop in the future.
Hi Ricky R,
Funny that you mentioned SM. I received an offer from them for a 1BR unit for around £30K.
Field Residences
Do you own a property in the Phils?
Daks
I very nearly bought a condo in Manila (Marikina City)
Seemed to be a great place and a great location. Essentially it was a very nice location actually.
But....... well here's what happened to me........ I went with an agent to look around, found it was nowhere near finished enough to realistically compare to any kind of 'specification'.
Here's my Experince points to note:-
1. Think about a parking space. A standard parking space would have cost me an additional P375,000 and be large enough for a "typical car". I could never get a specific size big enough for the "typical car", as is was too early to tell.
2. Think about ongoing maintenance costs. I Could never get any specific idea on the maintenance costs. Remember, these cost are obligatory, and can change from time to time. Usually after the contract is signed.
I was eventually told 'in-confidence' that the projected minimum maintenance fees would be about P3000 per month but... could finally be between P4000-P6000 because no one can say until that all important contract is signed.
3. Think about insurances. I Could never get any specific idea on the cost of insurance which is obligatory. Insurance costs can vary from time to time. Usually after the contract is signed.
4. Think about deposits. I was told there was a non-refundable and also completely non-transferable deposit required. Basically this meant that If I paid a deposit for 'property A' and then later decided (for whatever reason) to purchase 'property B', I would lose all of that deposit.
5. Think about 'Hidden One time Charges'. I found out I would need to pay a P120,000 "facility entrance fee", for a one time contingency fund. Whatever that was. Couldn't get any answer I could understand. Maybe White-Guy tax?
6. Think about what you will end up with. Now, finally the condo I was being sold, was in fact a concrete room with a toilet and waste and with ONE set of hot and cold water pipes. There were no rooms, means no internal partiton walls at all. Those are extra.
No electrical sockets, no other water or waste in or out. No finishes on the walls or the ceilings. ALL extras.
Of course it goes without saying, no appliances, no fittings and no furnishings.... ALL EXTRAS
7. No information on the promised pool or in fact on any other facilities, other than they are usually completed before the last condo is finished (ie sold and completed to contract)
Sorry if all this sounds negative, not meant to be just advice on what to be smart on.
So far I have not bought into a condo. I have friends who have done it and done it well.
This is what they tell me, always buy a completed condo in a completed building with completed facilities and with a parking spot (big enough). Always be sure the maintenance costs are fixed'ish' for a specific known time period.
Then and only then you can really know what your costs are, and how much you will either pay in rental charges or alternatively just what you can charge for rent, then how much profit you MIGHT make.
This is the Philippines. Not all that glisters is found to be gold
Oh, BTW, don't forget the legal fees.
I don't know if it's true or not, but I have heard say that many new condo developments these days now have a certain 'life' before needing to be re-cycled.
This is in terms of materials which tend to crack, crumble look tatty, get poor repairs etc.
This period has been said to be about 10 years.
Now I have no idea at all if there is any truth in this, but I do wonder.
This is not meant to be advice, a guide or even a general description. Just something that happened to me one afternoon.
As always no offence intended.
Hi Terpe,
Sorry to hear about your experience and thanks for sharing.Originally Posted by Terpe
When buying properties in the preselling phase it is always advisable to stick to the renowned and trusted brands such as Ayala, Century Properties, SM. For example, the quote SM gave me stipulated the association dues explicitly (PHP40 per sqm).
Anyway they have an investor's evening in Kensington next month, so will definitely check it out and let you know
Thanks again!
Dakila, I have spent the last 4 years living in the Philippines and have been so close to putting money into property there, and everytime have been glad I haven't. The only white guy I know who makes money, buys the property cheap and sells it onto other white guys at a higher price and offers rent to buy for some.
Seriously, if you thinking of an investment in the Philippines, you'd be a lot better to buy in the UK or elsewhere. If your looking for a holiday condo that you could rent out a little bit in your spare time recoup some of your losses, then thats a different story.
I know it sounds pessamistic, but I'm just being very honest. I've seen far too many people screwed over in the Philippines, locals and foreigners.
Cool, thanks for your comments Ricky.
Will update this thread with my progress and experiences too.
Daks.
I had been thinking of buying a house in Cavite. I visited some show homes there. I didnt in the end, mainly as although they were inexpensive compared to the UK, I simply couldnt afford the outlay. In some ways I am am glad that I didnt make the purchase as the quality of the build seemed so poor.
That's the conclusion I've come to every time I've been there and had a look around. I've bought and sold a few properties in my time (including overseas), and have noticed that even relatively new property in the Phil's look rotten after a few years. The materials they use are not suitable for the climate, and everything is built on the cheap. The biggest problem I've seen is rotten timbers, inadequate rendering and paint, not to mention poor plumbing and electrics. The tropical climate, humidity and typhoons are too much for the materials to cope with.
If I was going to have a property in the Phil's I would build it myself with higher quality materials that were able to resist the mositure and heat. I certainly wouldn't buy anything that had been buily by anyone else unless I was planning on stripping it back to a bare brick shell and making sure the property could breathe properly as well as resisting the damp/mositure.
That's why the property I designed and had built (by family members) was ALL concrete...good concrete with plenty of steel, and with proper foundations.
No timber, except in the internal door-frames...not even in the roof.
I'm sure the ex-wife is making loads renting it out.
Essentially, what it comes down to Dakila is, are you really looking for an investment? or are you looking for a home/second home? Or something to help you pay the bills?
If you want a good investment, look at any country other then the Philippines, if its the other two answers then its a slightly different story.
You have been warned! :-)
Yes. What I saw was show homes so they had all been done up as such quite effectively. But what amazed me was that they used iron window frames like what you can sometimes see in old buildings in the UK and they (new build show homes) were already rotting.The materials they use are not suitable for the climate, and everything is built on the cheap. The biggest problem I've seen is rotten timbers, inadequate rendering and paint, not to mention poor plumbing and electrics
Also, I dont know if I got it wrong here but it was single brick. No cavity. That worried me a bit and I wasnt so happy on the brick quality either.......
Building and materials standards are literally 'worlds apart' compared to here, but it is a poor country and people use what is readily available and affordable, in the case normal houses and buildings of a couple of floors.
To be fair, most of them to seem to stand the test of time, and with correct treatment of wood and steel (as in window frames), those should last too.
It is the taller buildings that would worry me more.
In a normal house I wouldn't suggest our type of cavity wall, as it would soon be full of insects and vermin...as with the roof space.
Insulate certainly, but choice of materials is much more critical in the tropics where there are dozens of life forms seeking opportunities to munch on your home, conceal themselves within it, or both.
Yes. I suppose a cavity wall would make a great nest for snakes!!??
In a normal house I wouldn't suggest our type of cavity wall, as it would soon be full of insects and vermin...as with the roof space.
Insulate certainly, but choice of materials is much more critical in the tropics where there are dozens of life forms seeking opportunities to munch on your home, conceal themselves within it, or both.
Just one of a long list.
To be effective anyway (from an insulation point of view...useful in the tropics) the cavity must be completely sealed, as in the sealed unit in double-glazing ...and kept that way. It could be done.
You'd be surprised at how long those cinder block houses do last though, and with 100 square miles of ash deposited by Pinatubo there is no shortage of materials.
Was looking at buying a condo years ago first in Makati then realising its way too pricey gradually working my way out until I ended up renting a terrace house in Green Park Cainta which was a mistake but at least I only lost a months rent when I had to give it up . Nothing wrong with Cainta its a nice place its just when the owner took me to see the property the journey from Makati miraculously took less than 30 minutes and I thought this is perfect , affordable rent for a relatively large floor area , secure yard to fit two vehicles , gated community and the guard checking everyone through the perimeter , a well built spacious house. Soon had it filled with cheap bamboo furniture bought from St Lucia mall and fitted an ac unit myself which I found most of the time we could manage without .
First week commuting to Makati realised it was going to take an average two hours each way in the rush hour which went from 4pm to midnight , has this route improved over the years ? In summary I would agree with every point in Terpes summary and Grahams comments on building . I have some experience of electrical products being stored in a house in Manila , they were eaten by termites over six month period , would not have believed it possible what they are capable of eating but I saw it myself , had not seen termite damage like this before but I am told its not unusual in Manila. Despite looking at many properties I came to the conclusion that buying in Manila did not make sense for me .
When i was in manila a couple of weeks ago I was looking at the high rise buildings and thinking. What if they had a proper earth quake there? That place would be a mess.
I've stayed on the 30 something'th floor of the Citadel in Makati a few times and had the same thought many times. The whole building is rotten and stinks of mould and damp. I wont even go out on the balcony in case the concrete gives way and I fall 300 feet to the ground
I cant imagine anything built more than 20 years ago in Makati is earthquake proof. Some of the newer foreign owned bank/insurance buildings are probably built to a higher standard.
Not sure what all the fuss is about although I agree with Terps condo post..
Lots of foreigners making lots of money on all types of property and land here.. An English mate just made 3.5 Million cash 1 year after initial investment.
Ive had a few offers for land I bought 5 years ago but there`s no way Im selling for at least another 10 years.. Prices in the R.P have never gone down in price since the late 70`s...Only up and that includes the last Asian financial crisis.. Where else in the world can you say that about?
Personally I would not invest in UK housing until Britain and the EU stabilizes the huge amount of debt that weighs it down..Another 10/15 years at least IMV.
Having worked all of my working life in construction in the UK I can honestly say that the steel reinforced post and beam construction that I have seen here is far stronger than any ring beam construction method Ive seen the UK..
Cavity or no cavity!!
The biggest issue here is a complete lack of maintenance by Filipino home owners.
All materials are available here now if you are willing to pay and for 20k per square meter you will get a top grade house as good as anywhere in the world...
Just as any where else..You get what you pay for..
Fred.
'You get what you pay for..'
Spot on.
Based on your comments about you being a tight Yorkshireman, I expect your place was made out of 1/2 inch bamboo canes and a sheet of polythene then'You get what you pay for..'
Spot on.
Hi Fred,Not sure what all the fuss is about although I agree with Terps condo post..
Lots of foreigners making lots of money on all types of property and land here.. An English mate just made 3.5 Million cash 1 year after initial investment.
Ive had a few offers for land I bought 5 years ago but there`s no way Im selling for at least another 10 years.. Prices in the R.P have never gone down in price since the late 70`s...Only up and that includes the last Asian financial crisis.. Where else in the world can you say that about?
Personally I would not invest in UK housing until Britain and the EU stabilizes the huge amount of debt that weighs it down..Another 10/15 years at least IMV.
Having worked all of my working life in construction in the UK I can honestly say that the steel reinforced post and beam construction that I have seen here is far stronger than any ring beam construction method Ive seen the UK..
Cavity or no cavity!!
The biggest issue here is a complete lack of maintenance by Filipino home owners.
All materials are available here now if you are willing to pay and for 20k per square meter you will get a top grade house as good as anywhere in the world...
Just as any where else..You get what you pay for..
Fred.
I completely understand that money can be made on land and property in the right places. But condo's are the biggest con going in the Philippines, I've seen lots of money lost of them, and they always are well kept at first but end up in a state a few years later.
Hi all,
Thanks for posting your comments and thoughts.
To those who have had a negative experience or knows someone who did, do you happen to know the name of the property developer?
Thanks,
Daks
If only. ...would have been able to pack it in my bag then, instead of donating it to the ex's divorce fund.
Hi everyone
Its All Saints day here so have a little time to check the forum out....
I agree stay away from Condo's.
I am a builder here and as previous post have said you can get any thing you want regards building products from all over the world.....It all depends how much you want to spend on building anything.
When you have plans drawn up to be submitted for a building permit they will always will have the correct size of columns, beams & steel bars for the size of the construction......The problem is the locals or the owner of the construction will always use small sized materials to cut costs....
It is their choice to do that and at the finished stage when the officers came to look at the construction to sign off and grant you a Occupancy Certificate they will never know what size materials were used.....There is no offical inspection carried out during the construction....
I only build to the Australian Building Code as I don't know any other way to build....being a Carpenter & Joiner and then Owner Builder down under...
Most of the products besides sand, cement & steel bars I use imported products from all over the world which is readly avaliable here now...
Windows PVC coated from England....High pressure water pipe from Germany....100% copper electrical wire.....Solar hot water system form Aussie... Plus hardy flex sheeting boards for ceilings etc etc...
Sure the locals can't afford high grade materials so they build cheap.....But you will notice in new banks and offices they will use the high grade materials.
I will add more later got to fly
Koala:
Hi Dakila,
Please check this out for more info:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.p...300302&sk=info
U may contact them anytime...Have a nice day!
If you can't say something nice.
SHUT UP!. Simple.
Halfords have got some half price tents in stock at the momentIf only. ...would have been able to pack it in my bag then, instead of donating it to the ex's divorce fund.
Totally agree...
Regarding the paragraph in bold Koala..Hi everyone
Its All Saints day here so have a little time to check the forum out....
I agree stay away from Condo's.
I am a builder here and as previous post have said you can get any thing you want regards building products from all over the world.....It all depends how much you want to spend on building anything.
When you have plans drawn up to be submitted for a building permit they will always will have the correct size of columns, beams & steel bars for the size of the construction......The problem is the locals or the owner of the construction will always use small sized materials to cut costs....
It is their choice to do that and at the finished stage when the officers came to look at the construction to sign off and grant you a Occupancy Certificate they will never know what size materials were used.....There is no offical inspection carried out during the construction....
I only build to the Australian Building Code as I don't know any other way to build....being a Carpenter & Joiner and then Owner Builder down under...
Most of the products besides sand, cement & steel bars I use imported products from all over the world which is readly avaliable here now...
Windows PVC coated from England....High pressure water pipe from Germany....100% copper electrical wire.....Solar hot water system form Aussie... Plus hardy flex sheeting boards for ceilings etc etc...
Sure the locals can't afford high grade materials so they build cheap.....But you will notice in new banks and offices they will use the high grade materials.
I will add more later got to fly
Koala:
What do you mean when you say its "their choice to do that" ?
Any variance from the permitted drawing plan is illegal and it is the owner of the buildings responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen.
We had to use a contractor on one of our projects here but we paid an independent engineer that drew our plans to supervise all of the structural work.. We also sourced and purchased all materials ourselves.
More fool anyone who simply hands over shed loads of cash and trusts a local builder anywhere in the world!!
(especially the UK!!
(Scratches chin)
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