refused twice...is it worth another try?

[me&u4ever]

Hi! I am glad I found this forum! I see it very helpful to a lot of people who wants to know about life in UK and Philippines and everything in general. I am in a situation now where I don't know what to do and I am going to share my experience, maybe people from here will be able to help me think for what is right to do...this is my problem.

You wish to visit your UK-based partner, Mr. X, for a period of 3 months. On your application form you have stated you are unemployed and your sponsor financially supports you here by remitting money to you. You have submitted a letter with your application in which u state that Mr. X visited you in Philippines in June 2011 and that following business is not yet earning income but cite the business as a reason why you leave the UK. However, I find it less than credible that you leave a fledging business for 3 months in order to take a holiday. I do not find it credible that you should leave a fledging business for 3 months and this leads me to doubt the business is viable of any great importance to you and it would appear it has been set up merely to give impression you have something to return to here. You clearly have strong emotional ties to your sponsor who lives permanently in the UK and on whom you are financially reliant and I am not therefore satisfied you are genuinely seeking entry only for the purpose or period stated. 41(i)(ii)

I made a letter with additional more documents yet I am still refused for the 2nd time.

2nd refusal was just the same but @ the bottom of it says I have assesses your new application afresh and considered all the supporting documents you have submitted. However there appears to be no change in your personal circumstances since your last refusal. You have failed to provide any evidence to address the reasons for refusal above and therefore your personal circumstance in Philippines combined with your financial dependence on your sponsor does not provide any sufficient motivation for you to leave the UK at the end of your proposed visit.

So I made a letter of consideration and this are just part of it, correct me if I am wrong pls. Your comments and suggestions will be very much appreciated.

Answer to the reasons of refusal.
I would like to make an appeal for a RECONSIDERATION of my application for visit visa together with the letter from my partner who is sponsoring my trip to UK, with regards to the refusal letter that I just received yesterday. Whilst I may not have met your specific criteria, I would like to appeal for RECONSIDERATION because I feel I have underlying facts that may make you reconsider. Please spend a few moments looking at the additional information attached with my appeal. I was surprised that it is stated in my recent refusal that I have failed to provide any evidence to address the reasons for refusal. With all due respect Sir/Madam, I supposed I have clearly submitted substantial vital piece of evidences like my first Business Permit with the official receipts from local government that will show that I have had my business even prior to meeting my partner, with a letter to explain the additional documents I presented addressing your concerns in your first refusal of my application. But with all humility, I am taking this chance to hopefully be able to clearly address again your concern with more additional evidences to support my genuine intention to visit my partner and my earnest desire to come back here in the Philippines at the end of my proposed visit.
*** As I have stated in my previous letter that I have started my business last October 2010, 2 months prior to meeting my partner online and 8 months prior to his visit here in the Philippines. If u can recheck the Business Permit that I submitted to you on my first application, it is shown there that RENEWAL on top of the Business Permit. I actually opened my business last October 2010 with the Business Permit I sent to you dated October 1, 2010 and my supporting documents such as the 1st Business Permit, receipts of the purchases of the items that was displayed in my home based small shop. And some more receipts of the furniture and other office stuffs I bought for the set up of my business. Trust receipts signed by my customers and agents in every transaction done. Those receipts will show that my business has been operating since October 2010 up to the present. Those official receipts from the government offices for the payments I have made for getting the permits and taxes. And I also stated that I only told you that I started the business last June 2011 because that’s the only time I have my Business Name on the Business Permit when I renewed it that month. I am sorry for my unpredictable negligence, I have fully misunderstood the thing that I read from one of the websites online that visa applicant with business must submit a Business Permit with its name on it. I didn’t realize that it is the ownership of the business which is important not the business name. I do not have any reason for me to hide from you when I actually started my business if only I have fully understood the requirements of submitting a Business Permit. All the documents I submitted about my business are all official and legal.

Do u think this will help? well I am being honest, it was really an honest mistake.

Thanks for your time reading my long post. I am just confused and worrying.

[rusty]

There are conflicting statements in you post.

It says that in the initial application you were unemployed but later you say that you have had a business for many months. It also says that the business is not making money and therefore they see that you cannot support yourself without your partner’s support, so why would you return to a business that is not making any money.

Have you explained what will happen to the business while you are away?

A visit visa is always the most difficult to obtain and you must provide a lot of evidence with supporting documents and explanations as to why you should be approved.

You have not said what your long term plans are, if you plan to settle in the UK with your partner as either fiancé or spouse I suggest you forget the visit visa and concentrate on this type of visa.

[hawk]

if i was you i would get your buisines running first and show it is stable with money coming into your bank as in your letter i read to me it shows nothing to show you have any stability on income or any reson to return to philippines after

[andy222]

Just listen to the guys on here take their advice and you wont go wrong.

[Terpe]

Hi there me&u4ever, welcome here.

Securing a tourist visit visa is notoriously problematic for many reasons.
Not least because approval or refusal of General Visitor (tourist) visa applications is principally based on the discretion of the ECO.
Unless it is a family visa there is no appeal process.

The major complication is the need by the applicant to prove a non-immigrant intent. Applicants wishing to come to the UK under a tourist visit must clearly demonstrate that they do not intend to remain in the UK on a permanent basis.
Immigration law places this burden of proof on the applicant.
In order to grant a temporary visa, the ECO must be satisfied that the applicant has strong social, economic and family ties abroad that would compel them to leave the UK at the end of the temporary stay.
This will always be more difficult to establish if there is an existing romantic relationship between the applicant and the British citizen/permanent resident/sponsor.

Unfortunately, in most cases it becomes difficult to overcome this presumption.

Strong ties differ from country to country, city to city, individual to individual.
Some examples of ties can be a job, a house, social and family relationships, a bank account, possessions etc
The ECO is looking to see if the aspects of your life that bind you to your country outweigh those aspects that may cause you to be unwilling to return to your home country, or to attempt to change or extend your visa status.

The details of your business are just one factor in the whole picture. The ECO will be considering the total application and how he interprets the submitted evidence.
As rusty has mentioned, it maybe better for you and your partner to discuss the longer term plan with view to settlement visa application.

Sorry to say this but unless you can actually implement some serious changes to your current situation, then the refusals may continue.

[joebloggs]

sorry to say, you've got virtually no rights to an appeal for a visit visa and i doubt you would get a reconsideration either .

[RickyR]

You haven't really addressed the underlying issue that the ECO has, and that is your ties to the Philippines, and essentially a reason to return. I think also trying to plan a trip to the UK for 3 months on your initial visit isn't going to be in your favour.
Put yourself in the shoes of the embassy official, and on the basis of information provided, would you issue the visa?

If I was the ECO i'd have the following questions in my mind.

What are you reasons for going to the UK for 3 months? why so long? What reasons have you to return to the Philippines at the end of the trip when you've gotten settled and conformtable with your mahal? How can you justify leaving your business behind for 3 months?

[grahamw48]

Sorry....you're going to have to marry him.

Time to sharpen those womanly skills.

Alcohol always works well with me.

[Englishman2010]

Sorry....you're going to have to marry him.

Time to sharpen those womanly skills.

Alcohol always works well with me.

Only alcohol Graham

works better for me

[grahamw48]

Oy...we're talking about respectable young ladies here.

[Terpe]

Only alcohol Graham

works better for me

Sorry for the off-topic post but are you guys talking:-

[grahamw48]

I have his albums.

So sad he's passed on.

He and Dr.Feelgood...best 'Pub' bands ever.

.

[Terpe]

Agree with you again.
You never cease to intrigue me Graham.
Long may you continue.

[grahamw48]

Thanks mate.

....Just to keep things O/T.

(I have HUGE speakers each side of my monitor, and don't need much of an excuse to use them...lol)

.
.

[Terpe]

OMG, Dr Feelgood (plus loads of others) came to my hometown Northampton in June this year 2011 for a real midsummer blast.
They actually played in one of the local pubs from my younger days. Totally full house and great time.
Even had a pint of 'Black Velvet' to truly get the feel of those days.

Sorry to all for totally off-topic post.
Just an amazing co-incidence and happy time for me.

[open2love]

Sorry I just got online and thanks for those who responded. I know as a visit visa applicant I have no full right to appeal as it is said in the refusal letter but I just considered trying to write the Entry Clearance Manager because I have read some visit visa applicants tried it and they got their visa overturned.And the statement I mentioned above was just part of my letter addressing my mistake in presenting my business on my first refusal. But my bf also made a letter for them reassuring them that we had future plans for settling there but waiting for the right timing that's why there's no reason for us to make any more to jeopardize our future plans and I also mentioned that my partner and I are both in the right age to settle down if we want too but as of this time we are taking things in its proper place and right timing. Maybe after the visit, just like any other successful couples we will take another step. It is my enthusiasm to be back in the Philippines to continue the business that I have started, to make it grow. Having my own business is like a dream come true to me, I have indulged so much effort and sacrifices for my business, and I don’t want it all be wasted. And I love my family so much, too close to them that even at the age of 33 still living with them in the same roof, I need to prepare myself before I make a BIG decision to leave them and build my own family and most of all I cannot just take for granted my 80 yr old grandmother who needs my loving care being the eldest and the only single grandchild who can take care of her. I think three months are not long enough to leave my business and my grandmother to the care of my parents as I will still be constantly checking on them online. I also emphasized that , I am already earning an income before I met him. I can and am still can afford to support myself here in the Philippines without financially relying to him. Together with some receipts I have had from my supplier in Manila and receipts of payments made by couple of customers I have abroad. Personally, I think my situation is not bad, all things considered; I do live a fairly comfortable lifestyle. I believed I have met the requirements for a visit visa applicant. I also have fairly enough knowledge for the consequences of any attempt to break UK Laws, and have so much fear to ruin my record that would jeopardize any future plans. And I don't think I need to show much money in the bank since all the expenses for my trip will be shouldered by my partner.

If my appeal for RECONSIDERATION, do u guys think it's worth trying for the 3rd time? we mentioned 3 months because the first plan was to be together for his birthday last October, to be together on Christmas, so plan was to be home on January. I have submitted the reconsideration last week so I am hoping to get a reply from them this week but I am thinking also if should I wait for their reply or should I try again for the 3rd time? I have heard quite a few who were only given a visit visa on their 3rd attempt. What do u think guys? Thanks in advance

[me&u4ever]

sorry for the mess!!! my cousin just made an account here and didn't close it as she was using my computer then I just right away check the thread I made and responded here without checking it...open2love is my cousin's account. I am really sorry.....

[RickyR]

Hi,
honestly, i think your missing your point. You need to really calm down a bit, and maybe even consider going for a fiance visa with your husband if you can't sort out the requirements.

I seriously think that their question is more about why you are willing to leave your business for three months, why going to the uk for three months and what reasons you have for returning. And no letters will help you with that, you need evidence and proof.

Relax and think things through carefully, before spending more money.

[gWaPito]

Hi! I am glad I found this forum! I see it very helpful to a lot of people who wants to know about life in UK and Philippines and everything in general. I am in a situation now where I don't know what to do and I am going to share my experience, maybe people from here will be able to help me think for what is right to do...this is my problem.

You wish to visit your UK-based partner, Mr. X, for a period of 3 months. On your application form you have stated you are unemployed and your sponsor financially supports you here by remitting money to you. You have submitted a letter with your application in which u state that Mr. X visited you in Philippines in June 2011 and that following business is not yet earning income but cite the business as a reason why you leave the UK. However, I find it less than credible that you leave a fledging business for 3 months in order to take a holiday. I do not find it credible that you should leave a fledging business for 3 months and this leads me to doubt the business is viable of any great importance to you and it would appear it has been set up merely to give impression you have something to return to here. You clearly have strong emotional ties to your sponsor who lives permanently in the UK and on whom you are financially reliant and I am not therefore satisfied you are genuinely seeking entry only for the purpose or period stated. 41(i)(ii)

I made a letter with additional more documents yet I am still refused for the 2nd time.

2nd refusal was just the same but @ the bottom of it says I have assesses your new application afresh and considered all the supporting documents you have submitted. However there appears to be no change in your personal circumstances since your last refusal. You have failed to provide any evidence to address the reasons for refusal above and therefore your personal circumstance in Philippines combined with your financial dependence on your sponsor does not provide any sufficient motivation for you to leave the UK at the end of your proposed visit.

So I made a letter of consideration and this are just part of it, correct me if I am wrong pls. Your comments and suggestions will be very much appreciated.

Answer to the reasons of refusal.
I would like to make an appeal for a RECONSIDERATION of my application for visit visa together with the letter from my partner who is sponsoring my trip to UK, with regards to the refusal letter that I just received yesterday. Whilst I may not have met your specific criteria, I would like to appeal for RECONSIDERATION because I feel I have underlying facts that may make you reconsider. Please spend a few moments looking at the additional information attached with my appeal. I was surprised that it is stated in my recent refusal that I have failed to provide any evidence to address the reasons for refusal. With all due respect Sir/Madam, I supposed I have clearly submitted substantial vital piece of evidences like my first Business Permit with the official receipts from local government that will show that I have had my business even prior to meeting my partner, with a letter to explain the additional documents I presented addressing your concerns in your first refusal of my application. But with all humility, I am taking this chance to hopefully be able to clearly address again your concern with more additional evidences to support my genuine intention to visit my partner and my earnest desire to come back here in the Philippines at the end of my proposed visit.
*** As I have stated in my previous letter that I have started my business last October 2010, 2 months prior to meeting my partner online and 8 months prior to his visit here in the Philippines. If u can recheck the Business Permit that I submitted to you on my first application, it is shown there that RENEWAL on top of the Business Permit. I actually opened my business last October 2010 with the Business Permit I sent to you dated October 1, 2010 and my supporting documents such as the 1st Business Permit, receipts of the purchases of the items that was displayed in my home based small shop. And some more receipts of the furniture and other office stuffs I bought for the set up of my business. Trust receipts signed by my customers and agents in every transaction done. Those receipts will show that my business has been operating since October 2010 up to the present. Those official receipts from the government offices for the payments I have made for getting the permits and taxes. And I also stated that I only told you that I started the business last June 2011 because that’s the only time I have my Business Name on the Business Permit when I renewed it that month. I am sorry for my unpredictable negligence, I have fully misunderstood the thing that I read from one of the websites online that visa applicant with business must submit a Business Permit with its name on it. I didn’t realize that it is the ownership of the business which is important not the business name. I do not have any reason for me to hide from you when I actually started my business if only I have fully understood the requirements of submitting a Business Permit. All the documents I submitted about my business are all official and legal.

Do u think this will help? well I am being honest, it was really an honest mistake.

Thanks for your time reading my long post. I am just confused and worrying.

No need to be confused.....if you had applied for correct visa in the first place ie spouse of fiancee you wouldn't be having this thread...many before and many after will try and get here on the cheap

[me&u4ever]

Dear Ms XXX


Thank you for your letter dated 30th October 2011, relating to your recent entry clearance application. I have carefully noted the contents of your letter and reviewed your application, however I am satisfied that the decision to refuse was correct and should be maintained.

You have submitted additional supporting evidence with your letter. This additional evidence should, if you choose, take the form of a fresh application.

Whilst I cannot guarantee that any future application would be successful, I can confirm that it would be treated on its individual merits. I would strongly recommend that prior to submitting any application that you view the UKBA website to ensure that relevant supporting documents are submitted.


Now, I am doubtful if I trying the 3rd time is a good idea or just rest for few months to reapply again. We wouldn't want to go for fiancee visa yet as we are still considering a lot of things for now before getting into settled. If I will try the 3rd time do u think not mentioning about the business anymore will help or would they be wondering? I think I was really wrong in mentioning my business coz now no matter what documents I gave, business permit, BIR documents showing tax payments didn't help at all. I don't really know what they wanna hear from me. Hope u can help me enlighten my mind. Thanks a lot

[Arthur Little]

... many before and many after will try and get here on the cheap

... and why NOT? It makes sense for two understandable reasons that immediately spring to mind:

1. It provides the person from the other country - moreover, a completely different culture - with an ideal opportunity to sample the UK lifestyle ... not least, the infamous British Climate which, as we all know full well, is far from being amenable to everyone's tastes

AND

2. Pricewise, Visitor Visas work out at approximately one tenth of the cost of those required for Settlement purposes

[Arthur Little]

... nice choice of words.

Alas ... there isn't much I can add to what others have already said - except to extend a cordial from us, in the hope that you and your mahal will find a way to be together soon.

[gWaPito]

... and why NOT? It makes sense for two understandable reasons that immediately spring to mind:

1. It provides the person from the other country - moreover, a completely different culture - with an ideal opportunity to sample the UK lifestyle ... not least, the infamous British Climate which, as we all know full well, is far from being amenable to everyone's tastes

AND

2. Pricewise, Visitor Visas work out at approximately one tenth of the cost of those required for Settlement purposes

The fiancee visa is much more easily obtainable, that's not just my opinion.

Yes, it costs more ( the cost of a quinny buggy) than the visit variety but, it puts the onus on his British partner who is bound to be in much better financial shape.

Then they can do all the roaming and discovering our green and pleasant land to there hearts content....at least for 6 months.

[grahamw48]

It also shows a lot more commitment.

[elvie89]

well i made a letter of reconsideration but nobody replied me..could you please let me know what email address you used??