Breasts and the rest - Plastic Surgery

[Rosie1958]

What an amazing lack of response to an issue which concerns women ( and increasingly men ) of all ages, from UK and Philippines
How long do you think it took to prepare this thread ?
The only replies have been from males, and where their ages are stated, the youngest is 57
I only hope that the 159 views included a few females, who either agree with what has been said, or don't feel motivated to reply. Whether or not you choose to respond, please at least be aware of the scandalous lack of regulation of cosmetic surgery and injections both in the UK and the Philippines.
The president of the appropriately named British Association of Aesthetic Plastic Surgeons ( BAAPS ) - entirely reputable - has actually claimed to know of some dentists who have put breast implants in.
If you have got this far, please think twice, and again, about cosmetic procedures. It's an expensive minefield Consider yourself lucky if you have never needed surgery. Use what savings you may have more sensibly.
Yes, that's my opinion - but it's shared by others, and backed up by facts .

I am now back at work after the Christmas and New Year holidays and have only just logged on and seen this thread. There appear to be far fewer women on this website that regularly contribute to any threads, not just this one. Please don’t forget that the majority of women here are Filipina and perhaps a bit more reserved and shy about openly contributing. There will also be those that struggle to express themselves in English and those without any experience/ knowledge of the subject matter.

I personally haven’t had any plastic/ cosmetic surgery. I don’t like the idea of having botox injections or any other kind of fillers. If I did feel a need for cosmetic surgery, there is absolutely no way on earth that I would contemplate having any such procedure abroad. There are too many horror stories about and I don’t see the point in putting oneself at risk further.

Thanks for bringing an interesting subject to the forefront Doc Alan

[Arthur Little]

Thanks for bringing an interesting subject to the forefront Doc Alan

Appropriately enough ... 'forefront' being the operative word in this discussion.

[South-east boy]

Nothing attractive about a couple of bowling balls covered in skin.

I agree! What I find particulary suprising, even horrifying, is that some young women don't just want the bigger boobs, but actually want the large fake 'pumped-up ball' look such as Jordan and other models have, rather than as natural shape as possible!

[malditako]

breast implant is a big NO,NO!!! i love mine just it is... in fact i find model body sexier ( slim and almost flat boobs) than those who's got big butt and boobs.

[grahamw48]

Agree.....on both women and men.

[Arthur Little]

Yeuch! I'm familiar with the phrase, "throwing the out with the bathwater" ... but "snorting the foetus" ...

... that's a NEW one on me.

[Arthur Little]

Agree.....on both women and men.

Me too ... bellies brought about by EXCESSIVE indulgence in alcohol ... notably, ... Ugh!

[Doc Alan]

Cosmetic surgery on men, although only 10% of the total, has been increasing faster in the UK than for women. Breast reduction ( for " man boobs " ), liposuction, and abdominoplasty are among the most popular. If diet and exercise have failed, men determined to have such procedures should choose a surgeon on the GMC Specialist Register.

[grahamw48]

Any guys need further advice ?

[Doc Alan]

breast implant is a big NO,NO!!! i love mine just it is... in fact i find model body sexier ( slim and almost flat boobs) than those who's got big butt and boobs.

Well said Grace
It appears that in 2010 at least 15,000 women in the UK had breast augmentation or reduction ( British Association of Aesthetic Plastic Surgeons = BAAPS - the only accurate data available ).
Sadly at least 3000 of the women in Britain with PIP implants were given them during corrective surgery for breast cancer.
It's worth pointing out that although breast cancer is common in both our countries, the outlook has been improving for 30 years . I firmly believe breast surgery should only be carried out for good clinical reasons. Nowadays - at least on the NHS - treatment of breast conditions is on a " multidisciplinary team basis ". By that I mean surgeons, other specialists like radiologists, pathologists such as myself who confirm the diagnosis, and nurses are ALL involved in management of every patient. Each patient is involved at every stage of their treatment to a greater degree than any other illness. We all recognise just how important breasts are - but if they're normal, don't try to change them .
Nuffield Health has promised to remove PIP implants free of charge - albeit this only involves around 160 women. Let's hope others follow, and the adverse publicity makes anyone contemplating cosmetic surgery think again.

[Doc Alan]

The NHS will pay for women who were fitted with banned PIP breast implants on the NHS who are anxious to have have them removed, the government has said.

In a review, it said it expected private clinics to offer women who had concerns the same deal.

But it still said women with PIP implants did not routinely need to have them removed.

I hope this applies to the entire UK. Read more ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16444162

[Rosie1958]

I've just read in Sky News that face filler injections are now being reported by a senior surgeon as being potentially dangerous:-

"Permanent cosmetic facial filler injections are potentially dangerous and should be removed from sale, a senior surgeon has told Sky News. Dermal fillers are used to plump out wrinkles or change the contours of the face. They are not classified as medicines so they can be administered by people with little or no medical training and after only a few hours basic instruction.

But consultant plastic surgeon Barry Jones warned the injections can have severe implications and said they should all be taken off the market. "The more permanent and semi-permanent fillers can cause very major problems," he said. "If they are lumpy they can be difficult or impossible to remove, and sometimes will cause a very low grade, but very long lasting infection called a chronic granuloma, which can cause swelling, pain and discharge. "Permanent and semi-permanent fillers are dangerous to one's wellbeing, if not to one's life - I would remove them all from the market now."

Dermal fillers are classified in the same way as breast implants - as 'implantable devices' not medicines - so they are not subject to the same stringent testing as new pharmaceutical drugs. In the EU, as long as the filler has a CE safety mark, such as you might find on a washing machine or child's cuddly toy, it can be licensed for use in the UK. In the US, where the fillers are classed as medicine and regulated by the FDA, there are only six dermal fillers licensed for use but in the UK there are more than 160.

Sally Taber, Director of Independent Healthcare Advisory Services (IHAS), which represents the independent healthcare sector in the UK, said: "We have got to get these reclassified as medicines. "What we are saying is - please Government we are aware of our EU legislation but we know that you have got powers in this country to make sure that these are medicines. "What we need is the Government MHRA (Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Authority) to take some responsibility for this, talk to the industry and make sure they hear our views. "We can no longer allow beauty therapists in a hair salon, or in a beauty salon, to give these - these are substances that must be handled by the professionals."

European legislation means British patients are effectively being used as a testing ground for new products, according to Barry Jones. He said: "I think it would be fair to say that some manufacturers are using British and Europeans as guinea pigs, or as a testing ground, for products that they know they cannot bring to market in the US without very stringent, expensive testing."

A further eye opener although not something that I would consider having done anyway

[grahamw48]

The private clinics will simply put themselves out of business and wash their hands of responsibility, just as the double-glazing companies do.

On a tv news item the other day a clinic spokesman was already keen to point out that they of course had no responsibility for surgery that had been performed under the management of the PREVIOUS OWNERS.

[Doc Alan]

This should also concern filipinos ( male and female ) here and in the Philippines. I suspect cosmetic procedures are even less well regulated in Philippines - except in centres of excellence - than in UK.
UK statistics from 2011 - before the latest scare - show a 5% rise in operations from 2010. This is despite the economic downturn. Whatever we may think, over 38,000 surgical procedures and over a million non-surgical cosmetic " treatments " in a year shows a change in attitude / acceptance in society - gullible or vulnerable as these people may be.
No forum member can change things .
We can, however, influence people we know.
The problems nationally are :
* Lack of accurate information
* Under-reporting of failures
* Too many regulatory bodies / quangos
( European Union legislation ; UK Care Quality Commission and GMC who should regulate clinics / surgeons ; National Confidential Enquiry into Patient Outcome and Death / a " watchdog " ; Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Authority; professional bodies like BAAPS ; Independent Healthcare Advisory Services ... and more )
* Filler injections are not medicines ( Botox has medical and non-medical uses - see #48 below ). Anyone with minimal training can administer these ... in a beauty salon or at home .
* Until now, people having these procedures have not known / been bothered about health risks.
* Cosmetic surgical and non-surgical procedures are big business. The Government could ban all advertising and offers such as lottery prizes.
* I would say this ... but so much surgery is necessary for clinical reasons, especially as we get older. Sadly most of the NHS PIP recipients had them for cancer. Why waste money when a procedure isn't needed and carries risks to health .

[grahamw48]

This was always a 'train-wreck' waiting to happen, but as with the banking fiasco, once the profit motive is allowed to over-ride good sense and moral principles...

The two BUSINESSES may seem totally unrelated at first glance, but what they have had in common (as you have pointed out) is a totally inadequate system of regulation and quality control. A particularly appalling state of affairs when the physical and mental health of patients is involved, to the point of them being in a possible life-threatening situation.

[Dedworth]

Further to Docs post #44 this is from the Sunday Telegraph

Fillers could prove next cosmetic surgery scandal, experts warn

Patients who use anti-ageing injections could be putting themselves at risk in a market that is largely unregulated in Britain, experts have warned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...erts-warn.html

I'm sure Lesley Ash has now spent years regretting whatever it was she had done to her face

[grahamw48]

...Not to mention Pete Burns.

.
http://celebquestion.com/pete-burns-...de-of-plastic/

[Doc Alan]

Still on topic, it's worth - I think - a separate post on BOTOX.
The bug called Clostridium botulinum produces several toxins which attack the nervous system. In adults there is a rare infection - botulism - from contaminated food or injecting contaminated heroin, treatable by antitoxins but fatal in up to 10% cases. It's not contagious ( can't be spread person-person contact ). Botox ( botulinum toxin types A or B ) causes muscles to relax and stop working. It's used as a prescribed medicine for muscle disorders, migraine, and excessive sweating. That's fine under controlled conditions - Charice Pempengo had it recently ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Qyh7MYw8s ). It's also been increasingly used to remove wrinkles by the same action - temporarily paralysing muscles of the face.
Problems arise when it's not controlled. Prescribed botulinum toxins ( called Botox and several other names ) are rigorously tested first. Beauty salon - based treatments, or injection products sourced over the internet for home use - can slip through the safety net. There's no way of knowing what is being bought - whether in UK, Philippines, or elsewhere.
It's very rare, but possible, that concentrated " Botox " could cause fatal botulism. Whatever, if it must be used for cosmetic purposes, as with all the other procedures in this thread, great care should be taken in choosing who should do it. Remember also, the effect is temporary so will need repeating to maintain it.

[Dedworth]

Problem is there are always plenty of suckers around willing to part with their money and give these snake oil "treatments" a go

[grahamw48]

The private clinics will simply put themselves out of business and wash their hands of responsibility, just as the double-glazing companies do.

On a tv news item the other day a clinic spokesman was already keen to point out that they of course had no responsibility for surgery that had been performed under the management of the PREVIOUS OWNERS.

As I had anticipated....

Happy to make a fortune, but cut and run when it means giving some back.

.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16510424

[Terpe]

As I had anticipated....

Happy to make a fortune, but cut and run when it means giving some back.

.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16510424

I totally agree.
I also saw the BBC News report.

These implants were used simply because they were so very much cheaper to buy for the clinics who made huge margins.
Now they are saying they cannot afford to rectify.

[Doc Alan]

The Harley Medical Group should have had the resources, the surgeons and the operating facilities for such a situation as this.
They should have been insured, along with the surgeons, nurses and other involved staff, just as the NHS Litigation Authority and medical defence organisations cover other claims. To turn round and say the government must accept moral responsibilty, blaming the MRHA, is regrettable.
Inaccurate reporting doesn't help - Andrew Lansley is only the English health secretary.
That has just been highlighted by the Welsh health minister announcing that the 2000 PIP implants performed in Wales will be removed and replaced by the NHS. Replacement is vital to avoid scarring, loose skin, serous fluid accumulation and infection .
The best outcome from this sorry saga is that more people might think twice about having cosmetic procedures for non-clinical reasons. But if they decide to persevere, they should choose very carefully who will perform them. They need also to make absolutely sure they understand before they sign the " informed consent ". That includes risks and what will happen if " things go wrong ".

[sars_notd_virus]

''Love who you are''...so, NO breast enhancement etc for me
btw, The Silicone Scandal is on ITV 1 tonight at 7:30
Chris Choi takes to the road with a woman who has PIP (Poly Implant Prothese) breast implants to investigate the story that has caused widespread concern in the cosmetic surgery industry and left thousands affected

[Doc Alan]

It appears that the PIP breast implants scandal is symptomatic of a wider regulatory failure affecting all medical devices, according to Professor Brian Toft. The reliable medical journal The Lancet supports his views, with an editorial which unfortunately requires a payment for the full text. ( "19 members of the UK's Committee on the Safety of Devices (CSD), together with representatives from the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and industry, gather in London to hear a disturbing presentation by Brian Toft, Professor of Patient Safety at Coventry University. Prof Toft had contacted MHRA to express concern about the CE marking process—the method by which medical devices are approved.").http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...070-1/fulltext


Meantime for women with these implants, Department of Health Advice is as follows:-

http://www.dh.gov.uk/health/2012/01/...-pip-implants/

[grahamw48]

When something becomes a BUSINESS, unfortunately it is bound to attract people who's PRIORITY is making money.

Private sector 'Care' homes seem to fall into the same category.

Hospital cleaning ?

[Doc Alan]

When something becomes a BUSINESS, unfortunately it is bound to attract people who's PRIORITY is making money.

You're so right, Graham. The guy leading the review into PIP implants ( Sir Bruce Keogh ) has suggested an insurance scheme for future cosmetic surgery patients. Most of us wouldn't travel without insurance. It's amazing that until now financial protection is not always available should something go wrong in the private UK or foreign health sectors. Of course the patient would pay a premium ( just as in other insurance ), thereby preventing these commercial ventures walking away from adverse outcomes.
Successful claims are covered in the NHS by the Litigation Authority and medical defence organisations.
See also separate thread on " Our right to healthcare ... ". Patient outcomes should always take priority over business / shareholders' interests.