tourist visa declined

[JohnPen]

My girlfriend in the philippines got her tourist visa declined.

We spend some time on the application and put all the supporting evidence or at least all that we thought that was requested. Based on the result I started to search the internet for some more info and came acros this forum. I did some browsing for a couple of hours and found out that we didn't provide sufficient info. I am just wondering if anybody could give me any further advice? Really, I would appreciate here any help!

Me (42 years old) and my g/f get to know each other over the internet in May 2011. I was organising my trip to PI and searching for friends and she was just re-starting her school after taking care for two years for her younger brothers as her mother became then the main earner after the father was heavily wounded in an accident. Based on the story I started to help her financially already in May.

We met in Pi in person in July and the relationship developed well. I was a bit surprised though that she only became 18 years old in June as she was always claiming to be 19. I visited her then also in Sept'11 & Jan'12.

During last visit we put the visa application together being quite honest. As the reason for the visit she stated SIGHT SEEING. This is cause a friend of hers advised us not to say much about our relationship as it might trigger some alarm bells that we get married and she stays in the UK.

The letter of refusal pointed out the fact that I was twice her age and noted that the relationship began and remittances paid when my g/f was still a minor. The officer noted the provided affidavit from her parents supporting her visit and then just stated 'but I do not find your reason for this visit credible'

1) Do I read it correctly that the age issue was noted but at the end not the real issue?
2) Any ideas how I can explain better the reasons for her visit? We didn't provide any copies of our daily skype and ym conversations and mentioned only my visits.

The ECO mentioned that my g/f seems to totally dependent on my remittances as she didn't provide anything about the circumstances of her parents. Hence, he concluded that most probably she does not intend to return to PI. To be honest, I found this a bit perplexing.

3) Would it help if she applied again with evidence that her parents are able to provide the basic needs for her and finance the high school costs?
4) We didn't say in the application that she needs to come back in May to continue with her school. Would it have helped?
4) Any other suggestions?

Many thanks in advance!

[Terpe]

My girlfriend in the philippines got her tourist visa declined.

We spend some time on the application and put all the supporting evidence or at least all that we thought that was requested. Based on the result I started to search the internet for some more info and came acros this forum. I did some browsing for a couple of hours and found out that we didn't provide sufficient info. I am just wondering if anybody could give me any further advice? Really, I would appreciate here any help!

Me (42 years old) and my g/f get to know each other over the internet in May 2011. I was organising my trip to PI and searching for friends and she was just re-starting her school after taking care for two years for her younger brothers as her mother became then the main earner after the father was heavily wounded in an accident. Based on the story I started to help her financially already in May.

We met in Pi in person in July and the relationship developed well. I was a bit surprised though that she only became 18 years old in June as she was always claiming to be 19. I visited her then also in Sept'11 & Jan'12.

During last visit we put the visa application together being quite honest. As the reason for the visit she stated SIGHT SEEING. This is cause a friend of hers advised us not to say much about our relationship as it might trigger some alarm bells that we get married and she stays in the UK.

The letter of refusal pointed out the fact that I was twice her age and noted that the relationship began and remittances paid when my g/f was still a minor. The officer noted the provided affidavit from her parents supporting her visit and then just stated 'but I do not find your reason for this visit credible'

1) Do I read it correctly that the age issue was noted but at the end not the real issue?
2) Any ideas how I can explain better the reasons for her visit? We didn't provide any copies of our daily skype and ym conversations and mentioned only my visits.

The ECO mentioned that my g/f seems to totally dependent on my remittances as she didn't provide anything about the circumstances of her parents. Hence, he concluded that most probably she does not intend to return to PI. To be honest, I found this a bit perplexing.

3) Would it help if she applied again with evidence that her parents are able to provide the basic needs for her and finance the high school costs?
4) We didn't say in the application that she needs to come back in May to continue with her school. Would it have helped?
4) Any other suggestions?

Many thanks in advance!

Hello JohnPenn, welcome to the forum.

I'm sorry to hear that the tourist visa of your g/f got refused.

Just to say that in my opinion the General Visit Visa (tourist) is quite difficult to secure. There are a number of reasons. I'm sure you did your research and discovered that.
When making a visa application it is so important to be totally honest.

Without seeing the exact wording of the refusal it is difficult to make a proper judgement about the real key reasons for refusal.

Visit visa need careful thought and supporting evidence. Sometimes with visit visa's too much supporting evidence has benefits.

In principle you are correct that the ECO needs to be convinced that on the balance of probability the applicant's reason to return to the home country outweighs the reasons to overstay the visa. The ECO will want to see evidence of strong financial and social ties to the home country.
Visit visa's also need good honest supporting letter from the sponsor that will give the ECO a nice warm comfortable feeling whenthey approve. This type of visa is totally discretionary for the ECO. There is no appeal route. It's totally up to the applicant and sponsor to present a watertight, believeable submission.

Actually regarding the wording of age difference the ECO needs to take care to avoid giving that as a prime reason for refusal.

If you feel you can overcome the given reasons for refusal then you are able to submit again.
Hope this helps in some way.

If the reason for her visit is 'sightseeing' then provide an itinerary and cost support in line with visa duration.
If the visit is a get to know each other face-to-face then be brave enough to say so. But you need to ensure you have evidence that it is in fact a genuine relationship.
Please fire away with any further questions you have.

It's a tricky visa, but not at all impossible to secure.

[JohnPen]

Thanks Terpe, for your reply and encouragement!

I think I will talk to my g/f and try it again but this time with a

1) summary of our relationship, i.e. how it started, developed and the fact that it is difficult to take it to the next level with a string of 2 week vacations.
2) provide some evidence about the circumstance of her parents, family and the support that they were offering my g/f to complete the high-school degree.
3) i hope that in addition our daily conversations on ym chat and skype txt will help to convince that ECO that we have a genuine relationship

and I just hope that the ECO will ultimately not hold it against her that she is too young to have a carrier, has no child or some vast amount of savings to guarantee her return.

[JohnPen]

Btw, this is the wording of the refusal that my g/f received:

The Decision - You have applied for a visa to visit your boyfriend (your sponsor) in the UK for a period of three months. You state that you are a student. You have provided a high school identity card as evidence of your education. You state that you receive financial support from your boyfriend in the UK. You state that you will stay with your boyfriend in the UK for the duration of your trip. I note from his letter of sponsorship that your boyfriend states that you both met in July 2011 at Puerto Galera while he was on holiday in the Philippines. I note that that he wished you to visit him in the UK to 'explore further our relationship'. However, I note that you have provided remittances as evidence of his financial support from January 2011 to you that predate this meeting. I note that your sponsor claims two further visits in September 2011 and January 2012. You are now proposing to spend three months or longer in the UK with a person who is more than twice your age and who began a relationship with and remitted fund to you when you were a minor; and who you have met just three times. I note that your parents have provided an affidavit of their support for your visit, but I do not find your reasons for this visit credible. I note hat you have provided two bank certificates for balances of accounts held by you together with your birth certificate, baptismal certificate, police and barangay clearance certificates as evidence of your circumstances. You have provided no evidence of your parents' circumstances and would appear to be reliant upon your sponsor for your financial needs in the Philippines. Given your circumstances, I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry as a visitor that you intend to leave the UK at the end of the period as stated by you. I am not satisfied that you would not seek to remain in the UK in another capacity if now admitted as a visitor. I am therefore not satisfied that you meet the requirement of Paragraph 41 (i) and (ii) of the UK Immigration Rules HC395 (as amended).


Btw, the date January 2011 stated for the remittances is wrong as the earliest remittance was in May 2011. So, I am pretty sure that this was a mistake or typo.

[Rory]

I am not sure if the rule the government bought in a few years ago still stands about a person under 21 years old and a non EU citizen can not stay here once you are married, nevermind girlfriend. I know this rules would not apply to you at the moment but it would if you got married and this rule still applies.

[grahamw48]

Ageist ts.

I suppose people-trafficking is a sensitive issue now though, and to be honest I doubt the young lady would be allowed out of the Phils anyway.

They can't just come and go as they please as we can here.

[juvyjones28]

Hi john, welcome here

I’m so sorry to hear about your gf’s visa refusal. I agree to Terpe that it is a tricky visa and you need to comply with the rules carefully to secure one.
Your situation is kinda similar to mine before, but I was granted a visa. After a few months of meeting face to face in the PH with my boyfriend (now my husband), we decided to apply for a tourist visa to spend some time together in UK. I was in University during that time, it was 3 months before my semester break when we lodged in the application, after nearly 1 month of waiting, I received my passport back with the visa stamped on it. How did I obtain one? Well, I was also fully dependent with my husband’s salary, he supports me each month so I included it on my application, I submitted all WU receipts. I didn’t submit any properties as I didn’t have any. I also submitted his 6 months bank statements, 6 months’ payslip, employment contract, birth certificate, copy of passport and a good sponsorship letter explaining everything. I also provided return itinerary (we just had to re booked it after we got the visa), supporting documents such as pictures together, copy of e-mails or chat logs, my birth certificate and the most important is the proof for me to return which I provided a letter from my University that I am enrolled for the next semester, Transcript of records and the good moral character certificate. Take note that I am also half of his age but I was granted a visa. I think I was really lucky back then. I stayed in UK for 5 and half months and now back in the PH waiting for my spouse visa to be granted so I can join my wonderful husband in the UK.

Please don’t lose hope, It might worth a try again but please make sure to cover all reasons of refusal carefully. You might also consider applying for a fiancée visa or better a spouse visa. Remember that everything happens for a reason. Good luck whatever route your taking and God bless!

[Ann1984]

Hello John i really do concern of your problems now, i recently granted a visitor visa for 6 months. my sponsor( my partner) he made an Supporting Letter. submit all evidence.

Guide to apply a visa:

1. Visa covering letter or a supporting letter - http://www.sampleinvitationletter.info/

2. Resume of Relationship or Summary of Relationship- when, where, and how did you met each other. when did you start speaking with her? and where? explain.

3. print off Yahoo Messenger conversation/ Emails - from the start you met her.

4. submit photographs and explain each photos, where this place taken what event.

5. your itinerary plan of your visit.

6. WU receipts - evidence you supporting her.

7. applicant made a covering letter also.

you can reapply soon. you made an evidence what is on the refusal letter. please when you writing supporting letter, write also when she will intend to travel in UK and intend to leave in UK.

Eco is very strict even in application ID, make sure the size is fit on their requirements. and very hard to obtain, you must be careful applying documents, for sure submit many evidences to show to the ECO. it needs to study and take a lot of time to read. before i answered my application form i think many times before i answered, it goes to 2 weeks i think only answering application form. i tell ECO i don't had any work i only supported my partner.

Good Luck John, don't give up.

[JohnPen]

Thanks Juvy!

I think it might sound stupid but it also helps that others encountered similar issues.

You gave me additional ideas for the application: good moral character reference. This is something that her school should be able to provide.

To be honest, I didn't put much effort into the Invitation letter or at least didn't cover many aspects that are mentioned in this forum, e.g. providing an itinerary.

Any other suggestions on how we could prove that my g/f really intends to go back to PI?

I notice that fiance or spouse visa are an option, however, I would feel more comfortable if we spend some time together before. This way she could get to know UK/Europe as it is quite different from UK, meet my parents, friends and just get to know me much better. I have to say that the age difference is also kicking inside my head and I just want to ensure that gets to know me and my environment before we get married.

[Ann1984]

I think the only reason to intend to leave in UK, is in the school, i think her principal made an letter then countersigned with parents, teacher and the principal, that she return in a given date and months.

[JohnPen]

Tnx Ann!

You gave me some concret info!

Just another question: My g/f and I started to discuss what to do if we don't get the tourist visa. Both of us take the relationship very seriously and don't give up. The other options are a fiance visa or a spouse visa or something similar in my case as I am not a UK citizen.

I was going through the requirements for the spouse visa yesterday and it will be necessary to show within the application that our marriage is genuine and not driven by convenience. I'm concerned here is our 'summary of the relationship', pictures and list of our daily YM video chats would be sufficient to proof to the ECO that this is a genuine relationship.

Any comments on this?
Eventually, what are the other possibilities for demonstrating a genuine relationship/marriage?

Many thanks!

[melovesengland]

Hello!
Sorry to hear about the bad news.
I was refused on the very first application we lodge last year for a visit visa because we lack on supporting documents like bank details, photos of us together or chat logs that shows we have met many times and remain in contact on his absence in the PI, reasons for me to leave the UK on or before my visa expires, etc etc. We also send a cover letter from me stating the documents that was missing and that I am referring on my previous application and my friend that became my official boyfriend also send a cover letter that he is funding my trip on my stay. We also stated in the letters that we planned a 3 weeks stay in England ans when I am planning to leave the Philippines. I dont know if this link will help but this is my experiences and what we done, submitted on achieving a visit visa after the second application.

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....ps+and+advices

[JohnPen]

I am not sure if the rule the government bought in a few years ago still stands about a person under 21 years old and a non EU citizen can not stay here once you are married, nevermind girlfriend. I know this rules would not apply to you at the moment but it would if you got married and this rule still applies.

Hi Rory,

I am copying below the text that I found on the ukba website relating to this. It seems that the requirement for 21 years have been dropped. It is one of the reasons why I was so surprised about the age issue noted by the ECO.

****************
Following a Supreme Court judgement immigration rules have been laid in parliament to reinstate a minimum age of 18 for a spouse, civil partner, fiancé(e), proposed civil partner, unmarried partner or same-sex partner, and his/her sponsor to qualify for entry clearance, leave to enter, leave to remain or variation of leave on the basis of the applicant's relationship.
*****************

[JohnPen]

I am not sure if the rule the government bought in a few years ago still stands about a person under 21 years old and a non EU citizen can not stay here once you are married, nevermind girlfriend. I know this rules would not apply to you at the moment but it would if you got married and this rule still applies.

I think this requirement has been dropped. I found the following text on the UKBA website:

Following a Supreme Court judgement immigration rules have been laid in parliament to reinstate a minimum age of 18 for a spouse, civil partner, fiancé(e), proposed civil partner, unmarried partner or same-sex partner, and his/her sponsor to qualify for entry clearance, leave to enter, leave to remain or variation of leave on the basis of the applicant's relationship.

[Ann1984]

Got ya!! i find this link John, informative post a thread from RickyR it will helps you.
http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....ghlight=rickyR

[Terpe]

Btw, this is the wording of the refusal that my g/f received:

The Decision - You have applied for a visa to visit your boyfriend (your sponsor) in the UK for a period of three months. You state that you are a student. You have provided a high school identity card as evidence of your education. You state that you receive financial support from your boyfriend in the UK. You state that you will stay with your boyfriend in the UK for the duration of your trip. I note from his letter of sponsorship that your boyfriend states that you both met in July 2011 at Puerto Galera while he was on holiday in the Philippines. I note that that he wished you to visit him in the UK to 'explore further our relationship'. However, I note that you have provided remittances as evidence of his financial support from January 2011 to you that predate this meeting. I note that your sponsor claims two further visits in September 2011 and January 2012. You are now proposing to spend three months or longer in the UK with a person who is more than twice your age and who began a relationship with and remitted fund to you when you were a minor; and who you have met just three times. I note that your parents have provided an affidavit of their support for your visit, but I do not find your reasons for this visit credible. I note hat you have provided two bank certificates for balances of accounts held by you together with your birth certificate, baptismal certificate, police and barangay clearance certificates as evidence of your circumstances. You have provided no evidence of your parents' circumstances and would appear to be reliant upon your sponsor for your financial needs in the Philippines. Given your circumstances, I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry as a visitor that you intend to leave the UK at the end of the period as stated by you. I am not satisfied that you would not seek to remain in the UK in another capacity if now admitted as a visitor. I am therefore not satisfied that you meet the requirement of Paragraph 41 (i) and (ii) of the UK Immigration Rules HC395 (as amended).


Btw, the date January 2011 stated for the remittances is wrong as the earliest remittance was in May 2011. So, I am pretty sure that this was a mistake or typo.

Hi JohnPen,
Thank you for posting the refusal letter on the forum. I'm sure it will be of help to others.
Questions about how to best secure a visit visa are very often asked here.

In my opinion, the ECO is describing two key reasons why he has not been willing to grant the visa.

Firstly, he has some serious doubts as to whether this is a genuine relationship.
Secondly he has not been convinced that your gf has strong enough economic or social ties that would 'on balance' require her to return to the Philippines.

It may be worth a second application, in which case the above are the key issues which need to be addressed and on which she (and you) would need to focus.

A good supporting letter is very important.

If you decide to go ahead with another visa application don't be shy about posting any questions here.
It may be that your gf just doesn't have sufficient evidence to convince the ECO, in which case you may need to think of other strategies.

Keep in touch JohnPen and good luck

[Arthur Little]

Hello, John ... to our friendly, online filipino/uk community.

Needless to say, I'm sorry to learn of your girlfriend's tourist visa refusal. There's not much I can add to what others have already said, because - despite an awareness that such visas tend to be a "lottery" at the best of times - they're evidently not impossible to obtain, as you've read.

Based on the number of positive replies you have received - and cost effectively - it might be worth your while reapplying. It's your choice, however ... and I wish you the very best of luck, should you decide to do so.