Spousal Visa refused

[bigmarco]

Unfortunately my wifes application for a spousal visa has been refused.
She has read the refusal to me over the phone to me and understandably she is distraught.
Unbelievably it appears to me that the ECO has not studied our supporting documents. He states that I have never been to the Philippines, when we provided proof that I have been there twice. The proof consisted of my Passport and Photos of us in Manila and Boracay aswell as Tickets and Hotel bookings. Incidentally I got married in Manila so we also submitted all the relevant marriage documents aswell as some of our wedding photos and of course I would have attended the British embassy to get my CNI.
He mentions the close proximity of my divorce to our marriage. My wife left me for another man some time ago but I only filed for divorce when I had fallen in love with someone and wanted to marry them.
He mentions the abandonment of my wifes son which is tosh. Her son will be with her Parents and be well provided for and in all probability will join us once Mum has settled. He mentions the childs father who she hasn't seen since Birth and who has never seen his son. There was no question relating to him on the application.
He mentions accomodation when I provided a supporting letter from my mother that we will be staying with her in her 3 bedroom home where nobody else lives. I provided proof of her ownership of the property.
I'm really at a loss here as I really dont know what else I can provide these people. I have provided proof of income in the form of payslips bank statements and 3 P60's proof that I send her money proof of online contact for over a year proof of purchase of an engagement ring proof of marriage and proof of my 2 visits to the philippines.
What else can I do ?
Should I submit another letter?
Would it help if I fly over there?
Incidentally my wife hired an attorney at a considerable cost to help submit our application and that appears to have been a waste of money although 50% of his fee is based on getting a visa.
I would welcome and advice from our resident experts before we submit the appeal as my wife is in a terrible state at the moment and I'm struggling myself at the moment.
Thanks
Mark

[Steve.r]

That is terrible Mark, I would immediately appeal and go directly to the top or whoever is in charge, what a miscarriage of an application.

I am sure Terpe will be able to throw some more light on what you must do next.

[Arthur Little]

UNBELIEVABLE, Mark! I'm totally dumbfounded!

with Steve ... you need to take this to the top level, by asking for an Entry Clearance Manager to review the ECO's decision, and Terpe is probably the person most qualified to advise you on the best way to go about it.

[Marie]

ahhhhhhhh...sorry to hear this bigmarco...thought this month is a full of congratulations in this forum .....coz we have 2 members here who just recently got their VISA approved.....yes I agree with Steve.r....Mr. Terpe and other expert here can help you what you will do next...good luck

[rusty]

Sorry to hear you have been refused.

From what you have said you should have good grounds for an appeal.

Did you include a supporting letter in your application and did you explain all your visits in that letter?

Included in the returned documents should be the information on how to appeal, also see this link http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/vi...-info/appeals/

Good luck with your appeal.

[lastlid]

Sorry to hear the bad news. I know this doesn't help but its my personal opinion that it can depend on getting the right ECO on the right day and you have been the victim of some bad luck. On another day you would have got the visa, from what you say.

That business about not going to the Philippines is obviously a load of tosh! I kind of wonder if the trainee processed your application.

Terpe and Joe etc have performed a few miracles with advice in the past so I am sure they can help get you on the right track.

[joebloggs]

did you marry your wife on your first visit to the phils ?

need to write a letter asking for reconsideration and explain why you think each part of the refusal was wrong. and also appeal or reapply- depending on how long your prepared to wait for an appeal to finish.

[Arthur Little]

... it can depend on getting the right ECO on the right day and you have been the victim of some bad luck. On another day you would have got the visa, from what you say.

You're probably RIGHT ... but that SHOULDN'T happen!

[Arthur Little]

Puts me in mind of a (for the most part) competent learner driver failing his/her Practical test ... on the strength of the Examiner "getting out the wrong side of bed" on a particular day.

[lastlid]

You're probably RIGHT ... but that SHOULDN'T happen!

Quite agree. They obviously don't have a series of cross checks or a sign off by a supervisor or something. At £810 a pop there ought to be a cross check to ensure consistency of outcome.

[Arthur Little]

At £810 a pop there ought to be a cross check to ensure consistency of outcome.

Absolutely ... £810's a helluva lot of dosh to chuck down the drain!

[lastlid]

Absolutely ... £810's a helluva lot of dosh to chuck down the drain!

Yeah. Thats 2 ipads

[Arthur Little]

Yeah. Thats 2 ipads

... that is very true ... !

[BriaNoreen]

this is very sad but im hoping you will be successful in your appeal. does that really happen? if an ECO woke up at the wrong side of the bed, you suffer the consequence?

i am a filipina engaged to a UK citizen. we are in the final process of visa application preparation. i just took my TOEIC and got a very good score; we have most of the documents ready too. and this scared me a little.

[stevie c]

Im very saddened to read of your wifes visa refusal.
This is a disgrace you have provided everything asked of you both so im sure the eco who dealt with your application must of not been thorough enough or was not experienced as anyone can see by all the documentation & proof you provided was correct & up to date.

Im sure you would win any appeal or consideration for the refusal to be overturned without hesitation.

Bigmarco my heart goes out to you & your wife at this very distressing time but im certain that you will be togther here in the uk in the very near future.

[bigmarco]

Hi Guys thanks for your support and this time.
Joe yes we did get married on my first visit although I went for a month and we did go to Boracay on our own beforehand just so I was sure what I was doing was right for us.
Joe he seems to have ignored the supporting documents. He refers to the fact that I only got divorced 4 months before I married, so what the reason I got divorced was to get married. My exwife buggered off a few years ago but I didn't rush out to get a divorce immediately. He says I have provided no proof that I ever went to philippines when I sent copies of my passport with 2 entry stamps copies of flight and hotel bookings. He refers to me having a daughter by my previous marriage when we told them I had 2 daughters who are both making their own way in life.He refers to us moving in with my mother in Mitcham when we told them we were moving in withmy mother in Brixton (mitcham is where I curretly live). I provided a letter from my mother confirming this along with proof that she owns the property. The he refers to My wife deserting her son which I find offensive and ludicrous. He will be well provided for along with her Parents and if it's right for him he will join us.
The real point I'm trying to make Joe is that he doesn't seem to have studied the application in any detail just simply come to an immediate decision.
I would be grateful for any pointers and does anybody know how long the appeal process takes.
Should I go there?
Should I contact my MP ?
I am seriously off but realise it's pointless in venting my spleen with these people because they hold the cards.

[lastlid]

this is very sad but im hoping you will be successful in your appeal. does that really happen? if an ECO woke up at the wrong side of the bed, you suffer the consequence?

i am a filipina engaged to a UK citizen. we are in the final process of visa application preparation. i just took my TOEIC and got a very good score; we have most of the documents ready too. and this scared me a little.

I think this only happens occasionally. Most of the time it seems to be fine. I guess ECOs are just human and make mistakes.......I bet whoever released Marcos result will end up getting a right "row locking" and a sore butt from his or her supervisor .

[lastlid]

The real point I'm trying to make Joe is that he doesn't seem to have studied the application in any detail just simply come to an immediate decision.

Exactly. Almost like you got someone elses decision or something, like collecting the wrong baby from the maternity unit or the like.

Maybe he or she flipped a coin?

[Terpe]

bigmarco,
That's a terrible result. I'm really very so sorry to hear that.

The important thing now is to clear your mind and consider the next step(s)

If not already given the UKBA will give full written reasons for the refusal and will also give full details on how to appeal the refusal.

You do have some options:-

1. Respond with a letter requesting reconsideration of the decision. This should be done asap provided you can clearly point to the errors made by the ECO in understanding fully your supporting evidence.

2. Lodge an appeal before the indicated time limit expires

3. Submit a fresh application (advisable to wait maybe 6-10 weeks)

At this time I strongly suggest preparing a letter asking for reconsideration, however you must also lodge an appeal. Do not wait for a response to your reconsideration letter before making appeal.
The reasons are that, the request for reconsideration may not be processed before the expiry of appeal time limit. Or, the reconsideration may be reviewed bu not given in your favour, or the reconsideration may not even be looked at. (There is no obligation for the ECM/ECO to even review any direct correspondence)

You may not even wish to consider a fresh application, but I mention it only because it's an option. Furthermore it may be quicker than an appeal. No-one can say 100% for sure. But this may be the most practical approach if you feel you will be unable to prove your side.
Appeals can take considerable time, and these days they are not freely available. I don't think the cost is too much though (maybe between £100-£200)

It's very very difficult for anyone to give you any meaningful advice without having full knowledge of your circumstances, the actual wording of the refusal and details of the application and supporting evidence supplied.

Just on the basis of the information you have divulged, it appears that the ECO has cited a number of issues causing him to refuse the visa.

If you feel confident you can counter the issue raised by the ECO by highlighting the relevent parts of the supplied evidence, then just go ahead and make your letter for reconsideration. You must be totally honest with yourself on this.
If the ECO has made errors, you need to state that clearly and firmly and show the evidence was submitted.
If you feel that perhaps your supporting letter was not clear enough. Then by all means re-do that letter, but it must be based on the documentary evidence already supplied.
Reconsideration is based on the ECO making incorrect or misguided judgements.

You MUST also appeal with 28 days. Strictly speaking only the circumstances at the time of the decision can be considered at an appeal, so in principle you can't send in something that did not exist before the decision to refuse was made. Having said that there's no harm in trying if need be..It's up to the tribunal Judge.
Make sure that you use the time you have well in order to support your appeal
Now, when you send in an appeal the ECM (Entry Clearance Manager) will review the refusal decision, this is normally carried out on receipt of the appeal and before being sent to the UK. So if no action was taken on your direct letter asking for reconsideration, that process will be undertaken now.

I would also strongly suggest that you consider the issue around your case with a view to hiring a solicitor/lawyer/advisor.
Here's what they will do for you (in principle)

- Analyse your Initial application
- Check your supporting documents
- Examine your refusal letter
- Draft detailed grounds of UK Visa Appeal, giving legal reasons as to why your application should not have been refused
- Provide expert caseworker to represent you before the Immigration Judge when your Visa Appeal is heard. They would use legal arguments, case law and immigration rules and policies to present your case.

Of course you can quite simply represent yourself if you wish and you feel confident that the issues are complex.
It's not like being in a normal court and standing in front of a judge, it's much more informal, and besides they are used to dealing with the applicant's sponsors so its nowhere near as intimidating as it might sound.

As for right now, make sure you fully understand the grounds and all issues for refusal.
Re-visit the application submission and supporting letter and do try to be as honest and objective as you can. Ask yourself if you had really covered all the angles and presented a sound case. Then start to counter those points so that they can't be questioned and that that they will now become self evident in actually meeting the requirements.

You can always ask questions here for specifics.
It's important that you focus on specifics and on the facts. Sorry to be blunt but try to avoid being diverted with feelings and generalities. this is just too serious.

Try to stay positive and keep you eye on timescales.

[andy222]

This is very disturbing. I cant understand it you submitted all the proof they require. To be honest I wouldnt know what to do in your position. I think we could do with a solicitor on here. Im thinking about going down that channel myself when I apply. At least they will know where to appeal and what to do. By the way how many times can you appeal?

[bigmarco]

Thanks Terpe I am actually Trying to post the refusal here as I have received a copy from the Filipino Attorney. Unfortunately not being a computer wizz I'm having a few problems. I will try but any help be grateful.
Terpe can you tell me can I submit the letter for Reconsideration of the decision or does it have to be in my wifes name.
I have to remain positive because my wife has gone to pieces today but the more I read the refusal the more it doesn't make sense. The Filipino Attorney will be working on the appeal but in the meantime I propose to follow your suggestion and draft a letter of reconsideration obviously addressing every point in the refusal.

[rusty]

The appeal process changed on the 19th December 2011 see this link http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...67-appeal-fees

Applicants who appeal decisions dated 19 December 2011 or later from outside the UK will be required to submit their appeals directly to the First-tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) in Leicester and will no longer be able to send them to the visa application centre overseas that made the initial decision. For more information about this process please see the Ministry of Justice website.

The appeal can be done in person or by post.

[rusty]

Im thinking about going down that channel myself when I apply.

Incidentally my wife hired an attorney at a considerable cost to help submit our application and that appears to have been a waste of money although 50% of his fee is based on getting a visa.

There is enough information and advice from this froum and its member to help with any questions you may have, we have all been through this process and its free.

[imagine]

im so sorry its sad to read your bad news, keep your chin up, you have in your favour some of the best help and advise on this forum,
i wish you all the luck with your appeal, by what i read its a terrible error on their part, its a disgrace to mess up the feelings of genuine people,in this way.
its a mistake and therefore you should win any appeal ,
my thoughts go out to you,

[BriaNoreen]

My fiancee Noreen [this is Brian here] just alerted me about this case and it makes for very disturbing reading.

What is disturbing is not the refusal per se - that is indeed unpleasant - but the main concern is the sheer inconsistency, poor application of law, lack of transparency and outright vicious arbitrariness of this case. Was it a North Korean Commissar who made the decision? Or a British Citizen or worker performing his duties diligenty and applying the law without prejudice?

The evidence clearly has not been considered - and the ECO therefore has lied about the evidence, and his decision is subsequently a lie and a breach of your rights [as well as slander against both of you - for you are being accused of lying despite honest and clear evidence!].

A few key points for your case:

It is completely irrelevant whether the ECO got out of the wrong side of the bed. He has his duties to perform under work and social contract. Duty precedes whim otherwise there is no fair justice. Imagine a doctor killed a patient because he was in a bad mood? Or a soldier shot a civilian? Or a judge sentenced you to 30 years for drug dealing despite clear evidence on the contrary - simply because he didn't feel good that day.

There is clearly no cross checking to ensure consistency. A student does an exam and his work is scrutinised by TWO tutors, not one - to ensure a fair and balanced result, and all these are then statistically compared to each other, to ensure consistency [on a qualitative basis - and the qualitative and 'intuitive' is sometimes used in cases such as visa applications to discern the viability of evidence].

This has not happened here. We have an ECO who has made no evidence based decision whatsoever. If the ECO is trying to argue "I smelled a rat", a qualitative and intuitive concern about your application - due to a recent divorce - the argument is simple. The ECO's moral concerns about divorce and marriage are irrelevant. A legal concern is all that matters - it is of no consequence if he does not like your life story. All that is relevant - is the clear and honest evidence. You are entitled to marry after divorce, end of story. Is your marriage then being regarded as null and void??? What is the premise of the ECO's argument here beyond whim and resentment?

Finally - if you or I failed to be consistent and honest when making our tax returns, applying for a passport, welfare, medical assistance, giving evidence to the police, considering evidence rationally on a jury without prejudice - we have committed a criminal offense. In your case, the ECO, and the UKBA, have committed a criminal offense by failing to consider evidence in a fair manner, not being transparent, and effectively lying about your case [and slandering you is in effect, them telling lies as the evidence speaks clearly and they are lying about that]. This is very possibly a human rights case besides a case of maladministration. Your rights and dignity - and the rights and dignity of your wife - have been denigrated and curtailed on the basis of very unreasonable and arbitrary decisions.

The fee - you should be recompensed for that - and any other costs incurred from this case - as it is their malfeasance that has led to this miscarriage of justice.

Good luck and be strong!

Brian McNulty

[BriaNoreen]

Describe the problems you're having with your computer and I might be able to give a little advice.

I observe we are given very little time to appeal - which is unfair considering the vast distances involved. That is dubious and prejudiced in favour of the Ministry.

[Rory]

I am shocked at the outcome of your Visa application. From what I can make out from the information you tell us I can not see any real reason for a refusal.
I know you and your wife will be going though a lot of stress and negative thought but think positive as this sound like an complete error of judgement and they are quoting information that is Obviously wrong.

[juvyjones28]

I'm very sorry to hear about your wife's refusal mark. I know how you and the wife feel right now co'z I've been through it 2 times before. There were many nights when I couldn't sleep and eat after I learned about the refusal but at the end of the day I realized It's only one of GOD's trials to test us. Please tell your wife all will be okay, It was the ECO's mistake not yours. I still wonder why other people has to decide whether we will be together with our loved ones or not. Please follow the advice of what other members gave already, A letter of reconsideration might do it. Keep your head up and think positive despite of the refusal and tell the wife, 'This too shall pass'. Godbless!

[Rory]

When applying for the visa can she not go in person and the husband accompany her, this would surely be a big help or is the application always gone by post?

[grahamw48]

Very sorry to hear your bad news Marco.

Be guided by the experts on here and I'm sure everything will be resolved in a positive way for you and your loved one.

Best of luck to you both anyway.