Spousal Visa refused

[Terpe]

Thanks Terpe I am actually Trying to post the refusal here as I have received a copy from the Filipino Attorney. Unfortunately not being a computer wizz I'm having a few problems. I will try but any help be grateful.
Terpe can you tell me can I submit the letter for Reconsideration of the decision or does it have to be in my wifes name.
I have to remain positive because my wife has gone to pieces today but the more I read the refusal the more it doesn't make sense. The Filipino Attorney will be working on the appeal but in the meantime I propose to follow your suggestion and draft a letter of reconsideration obviously addressing every point in the refusal.

Your wife is the applicant and strictly speaking needs to be involved in the process. This letter is a direct communication to the ECM. It is not a formal or official route and as I said before, the ECM/ECO is not obliged to review it. Please have your wife sign the letter.

Also please do not forget that the appeal must be done within time constraints.
Did your wife already receive the UKBA appeals documents and instructions?

In my posting I mentioned consideration be given to utilising the services of a professional. Only you can be the judge of that after you have balanced the grounds for refusal with the submitted application. If it's clearly an error on the part of the ECO then you could manage without engaging a professional. There are lots of experienced and willing helpers here in the forum.

Just my personal opinion, but I very much doubt that a local lawyer/advisor in Phils has the experience, caselaw or immigration knowledge to be able to handle this for you. I could be totally wrong but it's my feeling and I felt I needed to explain that.

Use all the members on this forum. It's the range and diversity of knowledge that make it so great.

[lastlid]

Just my personal opinion, but I very much doubt that a local lawyer/advisor in Phils has the experience, caselaw or immigration knowledge to be able to handle this for you. I could be totally wrong but it's my feeling and I felt I needed to explain that.

Exactly, as its UK law and not Philippine law that you would be dealing with Marco.

[grahamw48]

Agreed.

No Filipino 'fixer' can do anything with this.

It is UK-based.

[iamghee]

I felt sad upon reading this thread, your wife should have been at least given a chance to be interviewed. I wanna share my mum's experience who is a british subject now and has been living in the UK for over 6 years. I think she kind of have the same situation with your wife, my mum also applied for a spouse visa initially but had to go thru an interview because my mum planned to leave my half-brother with my guidance, me being the eldest among the 3 siblings, my stepbrother was only 4 years old at that time when my mum left together with my sister who was 17years old at that time and had qualified as dependent to my mum, while I was already 20years old during that time and couldn't apply anymore as dependent unlike my sister. My half-brother is not biologically the son of my british stepdad which may be one of the reasons as well why my mum had to be interviewed, and apart from that, my stepdad didn't have healthy financial statements as well but because my mum is very witty and she knows what she was going to reason out and that she carefully reviewed all the papers she submitted, she eventually got the visa for her and my sister. After a few years, when she was already settled in the UK, she came back to the Philippines and applied settlement for my half-brother who is also now in the UK, studying and will be in high school soon. It's just sad really when you pay a huge amount of money and only get turned down in the end. Appeal takes forever I know because I've been thru it before and only lost in the end after months of hearing in the UK. However, I am wishing that you both win this battle and keep praying. God Bless

[Iani]

Absolutely unbelievable!

I'm no expert on this sort of thing, but can only say good luck and to hang in there as others have said.

Really hope this can all be resolved. It's disgusting

[andy222]

Hi Guys thanks for your support and this time.
Joe yes we did get married on my first visit although I went for a month and we did go to Boracay on our own beforehand just so I was sure what I was doing was right for us.
Joe he seems to have ignored the supporting documents. He refers to the fact that I only got divorced 4 months before I married, so what the reason I got divorced was to get married. My exwife buggered off a few years ago but I didn't rush out to get a divorce immediately. He says I have provided no proof that I ever went to philippines when I sent copies of my passport with 2 entry stamps copies of flight and hotel bookings. He refers to me having a daughter by my previous marriage when we told them I had 2 daughters who are both making their own way in life.He refers to us moving in with my mother in Mitcham when we told them we were moving in withmy mother in Brixton (mitcham is where I curretly live). I provided a letter from my mother confirming this along with proof that she owns the property. The he refers to My wife deserting her son which I find offensive and ludicrous. He will be well provided for along with her Parents and if it's right for him he will join us.
The real point I'm trying to make Joe is that he doesn't seem to have studied the application in any detail just simply come to an immediate decision.
I would be grateful for any pointers and does anybody know how long the appeal process takes.
Should I go there?
Should I contact my MP ?
I am seriously off but realise it's pointless in venting my spleen with these people because they hold the cards.

What was the guys name marco who refused your application? I think he must have been pi**ed from reading this.

[Dedworth]

This is a disgrace you wonder what if any qualifications the muppet has if he can't get it into his thick head that you've been out there. What the hell has the timing of your divorce got to do with it

I would book an appointment to go and see your MP at his/her next local surgery. As others have said this forum will be full of invaluable advice - I can't comment as my Mrs was already over here on a Nurse's work permit.

Good luck and don't let it get you down - I'd be thinking of wrecking the idiots job prospects once things are sorted.

[andy222]

I think what ps you off the most is marcos wife has passed the english test (which is not cheap when you add up all the expenses i.e overnight stays and the review centre like I have found out). Many in this country have not had to do that. Then preparing all the correct documentation Which you go over a number of times to check that it is correct. And then you get a dip..... refuse it. To tell you the truth I am dreading it. But keep your chin up marco and tell your wife not to worry. It looks like you have a good case.

[lastlid]

I'd be thinking of wrecking the idiots job prospects once things are sorted.

I was wondering if the guilty ECO had just quit and this was his or hers parting effort on the last day.

[Dedworth]

I was wondering if the guilty ECO had just quit and this was his or hers parting effort on the last day.

You do wonder - from what Marco's said they're not fit to be in any job let alone a "public servant" thats why I'd be banging my fist on the MP's desk and questioning the characters suitability as an ECO - a letter from him to the Minister would give them all a whole lot of aggro they could do without.

[joebloggs]

Hi Guys thanks for your support and this time.
Joe yes we did get married on my first visit although I went for a month and we did go to Boracay on our own beforehand just so I was sure what I was doing was right for us.
Joe he seems to have ignored the supporting documents. He refers to the fact that I only got divorced 4 months before I married, so what the reason I got divorced was to get married. My exwife buggered off a few years ago but I didn't rush out to get a divorce immediately. He says I have provided no proof that I ever went to philippines when I sent copies of my passport with 2 entry stamps copies of flight and hotel bookings. He refers to me having a daughter by my previous marriage when we told them I had 2 daughters who are both making their own way in life.He refers to us moving in with my mother in Mitcham when we told them we were moving in withmy mother in Brixton (mitcham is where I curretly live). I provided a letter from my mother confirming this along with proof that she owns the property. The he refers to My wife deserting her son which I find offensive and ludicrous. He will be well provided for along with her Parents and if it's right for him he will join us.
The real point I'm trying to make Joe is that he doesn't seem to have studied the application in any detail just simply come to an immediate decision.
I would be grateful for any pointers and does anybody know how long the appeal process takes.
Should I go there?
Should I contact my MP ?
I am seriously off but realise it's pointless in venting my spleen with these people because they hold the cards.

you only met once when you married, thou you only need to have met but with your recently divorce maybe they think you have rushed into it, but what business is it of theirs ?

if you can scan or type the refusal lette it would help, looks like they thrown everything except the kitchen sink at you

[grahamw48]

Exactly.

What business IS IT of theirs ?

Their business is to properly DO THEIR JOB and properly check the documents....not make spurious moral judgements.

This would NEVER be tolerated by or expected of couples getting married in this country...if they bothered to get married...or even get a bloody job before squeezing out kids.

[bigmarco]

Hopefully I've managed to upload a copy of their decision.

[lastlid]

My fiancee Noreen [this is Brian here] just alerted me about this case and it makes for very disturbing reading.

What is disturbing is not the refusal per se - that is indeed unpleasant - but the main concern is the sheer inconsistency, poor application of law, lack of transparency and outright vicious arbitrariness of this case. Was it a North Korean Commissar who made the decision? Or a British Citizen or worker performing his duties diligenty and applying the law without prejudice?

The evidence clearly has not been considered - and the ECO therefore has lied about the evidence, and his decision is subsequently a lie and a breach of your rights [as well as slander against both of you - for you are being accused of lying despite honest and clear evidence!].

A few key points for your case:

It is completely irrelevant whether the ECO got out of the wrong side of the bed. He has his duties to perform under work and social contract. Duty precedes whim otherwise there is no fair justice. Imagine a doctor killed a patient because he was in a bad mood? Or a soldier shot a civilian? Or a judge sentenced you to 30 years for drug dealing despite clear evidence on the contrary - simply because he didn't feel good that day.

There is clearly no cross checking to ensure consistency. A student does an exam and his work is scrutinised by TWO tutors, not one - to ensure a fair and balanced result, and all these are then statistically compared to each other, to ensure consistency [on a qualitative basis - and the qualitative and 'intuitive' is sometimes used in cases such as visa applications to discern the viability of evidence].

This has not happened here. We have an ECO who has made no evidence based decision whatsoever. If the ECO is trying to argue "I smelled a rat", a qualitative and intuitive concern about your application - due to a recent divorce - the argument is simple. The ECO's moral concerns about divorce and marriage are irrelevant. A legal concern is all that matters - it is of no consequence if he does not like your life story. All that is relevant - is the clear and honest evidence. You are entitled to marry after divorce, end of story. Is your marriage then being regarded as null and void??? What is the premise of the ECO's argument here beyond whim and resentment?

Finally - if you or I failed to be consistent and honest when making our tax returns, applying for a passport, welfare, medical assistance, giving evidence to the police, considering evidence rationally on a jury without prejudice - we have committed a criminal offense. In your case, the ECO, and the UKBA, have committed a criminal offense by failing to consider evidence in a fair manner, not being transparent, and effectively lying about your case [and slandering you is in effect, them telling lies as the evidence speaks clearly and they are lying about that]. This is very possibly a human rights case besides a case of maladministration. Your rights and dignity - and the rights and dignity of your wife - have been denigrated and curtailed on the basis of very unreasonable and arbitrary decisions.

The fee - you should be recompensed for that - and any other costs incurred from this case - as it is their malfeasance that has led to this miscarriage of justice.

Good luck and be strong!

Brian McNulty

Excellent posting. I would like to think that Marco got his money back. Diabolical considering the financial outlay.

[tone]

Hi Mate
I am sorry to hear this - shocking is an understatement.

As you used some legal representation, can I ask - did you tick the box that asks about using an agency or solicitor to prepare your case work?

We used a Visa company for my Wife's applicaton, and they advised us not to tick this box - the exact reason I cannot remember but it had a negative impact on previous applications so they always advised not to tick that particular box.

Other than that as suggested it shouldnt hurt to explain the facts surrounding your divorce and subsequent marriage, sounds like they have thrown a number of spurious issues to pad out the refusal, which reading your posts sounds like a joke.

Good luck with the appeal and hope the guys here can guide you through the intracate elements!

Tone

[bigmarco]

Thanks guys for all your support it really is humbling. It's amazing what a difference 24 hours can make. When we got the email from VFS we were in a celebratory mood checking the price of flights and making plans as I have 2 weeks off work the week after next and then the bombshell arrives.
We'll just have to put the celebrations on hold for a while and set about righting this wrong.
In my honest opinion I really cant believe that the application was studied properly as there are quite obvious mistakes in his refusal.
We put alot of effort into the application and submitted a hell of a lot of supporting documents photographs and personal letters in support from both myself and my mother. There were nearly 50 guests at our wedding and we had a professional photographer taking our pictures. Some of these pictures were submitted. I know there was no problem with my financial situation and he clearly hasn't mentioned that.
If only these people would speak to you before these decisions and they would realise we have nothing to hide and no lies to tell.

[lastlid]

Hi Mate
I am sorry to hear this - shocking is an understatement.

As you used some legal representation, can I ask - did you tick the box that asks about using an agency or solicitor to prepare your case work?

We used a Visa company for my Wife's applicaton, and they advised us not to tick this box - the exact reason I cannot remember but it had a negative impact on previous applications so they always advised not to tick that particular box.

Other than that as suggested it shouldnt hurt to explain the facts surrounding your divorce and subsequent marriage, sounds like they have thrown a number of spurious issues to pad out the refusal, which reading your posts sounds like a joke.

Good luck with the appeal and hope the guys here can guide you through the intracate elements!

Tone

Interesting what you say Tone, as i used a UK government approved Immigration Advisor and they were the complete opposite. The top page submitted had the advisors name and company plastered all over it. She then quoted some sections / sub sections of immigration law. Then our docs followed. My wife submitted the docs in that order. When she had finished one was left with the opinion that the ECO would have to come up with a jolly good reason to refuse the application. We did tick that box.

[juvyjones28]

The Decision

You propose to join your husband in London. He divorced in June 2011 and married you 4 months later. You have submitted no evidence of any photos, passport page photocopies or similar evidence that this man has ever been in the Philippines. You live with your 8 year old son and appear to be abandoning him to move permanently to the UK. You have not mentioned your son or how he will be cared for in any of your supporting documentation. You have not told me about his father. Your husband has a child from his first marriage. Given these facts and that I have seen no evidence that you and this man have ever met in person. I am not satisfied on balance that your application meets the requirements of paragraph 281.

You propose to live with your husband and his mother in Mitcham. You have submitted no independently variable evidence of the property you propose to inhabit such as a Property Inspection Report (PIR). I am therefore not satisfied that you meet the requirements of paragraph 281.

I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied on the balance probabilities that you meet all of the requirements of the relevant Paragraph of the United Kingdom Immigration Rules.

[juvyjones28]

I retyped it Mark so others can see clearly what stated on your wife's refusal notice.

I agree that there are mistakes with the ECO's decision. :(

[lastlid]

Just read it Juvy. Cheers. Disgusting service eh!

[Dedworth]

I wonder what the reaction would be if you wrote to the UKBA demanding a refund of fees within 14 days citing ineptitude then hit them with a county court action

" You have submitted no evidence of any photos, passport page photocopies or similar evidence that this man has ever been in the Philippines."

[grahamw48]

Did they lose half the documents ?

This is total crap if all information was actually supplied.

[tone]

Interesting what you say Tone, as i used a UK government approved Immigration Advisor and they were the complete opposite. The top page submitted had the advisors name and company plastered all over it. She then quoted some sections / sub sections of immigration law. Then our docs followed. My wife submitted the docs in that order. When she had finished one was left with the opinion that the ECO would have to come up with a jolly good reason to refuse the application. We did tick that box.

Hi Mate this is the text I got from my Visa Consultant on the topic, strange we have opposite point of views..

"Dear Sir Tony,

About the visa consultancy, as per experience sir most entry clearance officers denies applicant who declares they have had help from firms like us. The trend of their thinking is that applicants who have chosen to consult with firms like us are workers seeking employment and uses settlement visas as cover up. We have had clients like this and we had to make appeals for them and it took half a year to have the application reviewed and approved. So our immigration lawyers instructed us not to declare it to avoid such hold ups specially for our clients. Given the fact that we, and Ms. Rina is from the Philippines whose reputation when it comes to foreign employment have been notorious. We can revise the application, however I wouldn't want the application be affected by the reason that ECO's might doubt the purpose of our application.
I apologies I was not able to explain it to you before. But it would be your choice Sir. I can make the revisions."

I had to go through about 60 emails to find this - hope its of value to someone....

[lastlid]

Hi Mate this is the text I got from my Visa Consultant on the topic, strange we have opposite point of views..

"Dear Sir Tony,

About the visa consultancy, as per experience sir most entry clearance officers denies applicant who declares they have had help from firms like us. The trend of their thinking is that applicants who have chosen to consult with firms like us are workers seeking employment and uses settlement visas as cover up. We have had clients like this and we had to make appeals for them and it took half a year to have the application reviewed and approved. So our immigration lawyers instructed us not to declare it to avoid such hold ups specially for our clients. Given the fact that we, and Ms. Rina is from the Philippines whose reputation when it comes to foreign employment have been notorious. We can revise the application, however I wouldn't want the application be affected by the reason that ECO's might doubt the purpose of our application.
I apologies I was not able to explain it to you before. But it would be your choice Sir. I can make the revisions."

I had to go through about 60 emails to find this - hope its of value to someone....

Yes. Didnt mean to put you through so much trouble. Amazing the variety of approaches possible. I can see the advantages of both approaches.

[bigmarco]

Thanks Juvy most helpful
Tone just to let you know that we didn't tick that box.
Graham all documents were supplied and Originals returned with refusal. Everything I said I sent was in the returned parcel.

[grahamw48]

Total nonsense refusal then.

[gladz]

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's visa refusal bigmarco.

Be strong and goodluck in your appeal.

[imagine]

Quote,,, I have seen no evidence that you and this man have ever met in person

how do they think you got married

utter nonsence, be positive, they are 100% out of order, you will win ,
its just disgusting they have put you both through this,

[lastlid]

Out of interest here is the below statement from our Immigration Advisor on their headed paper. It was the start of the first page of our submission.

" Dear Sir / Madam,

I am a licensed Immigration Advisor acting on behalf of the above named individual ( Mrs Lastlid ). I am regulated by the Office of the Immigration Services Commisions (OISC) - Registration no xxxxxxx.

This application is for my client to be granted entry clearance as the spouse of a person currently present and settled in the Isle of Man. My client meets the relevant requirements as set out in paragraph 281 of the Isle of Man Immigration Rules in that she is married to a British citizen who is currently resident in the Isle of Man, the parties to the marriage have met and each etc etc etc

In support of the application the following documents are enclosed:

Etc etc etc "

Itemised list.

Signed and dated accordingly.

Evidently paragraph 281 corresponds to exactly the same paragraph in the UK equivalent on spouse visa applications.

The whole application was made in this sort of tone. And as such it was one that I felt had a bit of weight behind it. Obviously this Advisor's company was not afraid to make themselves known to the UKBA.

A sort of "we know the law, you know the law, this ones all above board so don't mess around and give us the visa" kind of approach.

[Terpe]

bigmarco,

I've read the decision letter from the ECO giving his reasons for refusal of the visa.

I read again the details you provided in connection with the application and supporting evidence.

Something appears to be very wrong here. I cannot understand why he is so convinced you have never visited the Philippines and that you have never actually met each other.

bigmarco, did you submit a good supporting letter outlining this and referencing the evidence?

There is such a huge variance in the application supporting evidence and the belief formed by the ECO that surely something has gone badly wrong.

Have you now received back all supporting documents?

Just follow the process for appeal and send a direct request for reconsideration on the basis that the supporting evidence of visit/having met/marriage etc appears not to have been reviewed/allowed. Give full details of the specific documentary evidence.

Additionally, just be sure that the accommodation side of the application did actually get covered correctly in line with requirements.

On the basis of the information in this thread, I find this refusal so strange.