Spousal Visa refused

[bigmarco]

Hi Terpe
I submitted what I consider a good supporting letter. I took 2 days writing it because I had learnt from this forum that it was quite important. I detailed everything about our relationship from the names of the friends who introduced us right up to our marriage and really opened my heart in the letter. I highlighted various documents that was included with the application. There was also a letter from my mother included which aswell as saying we were going to live with her also showed her support for the relationship and how she and the rest of my family were so looking forward to my wife coming.
I do find the refusal strange on the basis of the evidence we submitted and must say that I also find it offensive as he appears to have come to some strange conclusions. I would actually like to ask him what he thinks the problem is between date of divorce and date of marriage. I also think that stating my wife will be deserting her son is very nasty and she is very upset about this.
I propose to spend my weekend constructing the letter for reconsideration for the ECM and in the meantime the appeal will go ahead.
My understanding is that the appeal will be held in the UK and it will be my intention to attend if allowed.
Finally all original documents were returned with the refusal and all the documents that I have referred to in this thread were in the package.
Sadly I feel all the evidence was there but he just chose not to read it.

[joebloggs]

The Decision

You propose to join your husband in London. He divorced in June 2011 and married you 4 months later. You have submitted no evidence of any photos, passport page photocopies or similar evidence that this man has ever been in the Philippines. You live with your 8 year old son and appear to be abandoning him to move permanently to the UK. You have not mentioned your son or how he will be cared for in any of your supporting documentation. You have not told me about his father. Your husband has a child from his first marriage. Given these facts and that I have seen no evidence that you and this man have ever met in person. I am not satisfied on balance that your application meets the requirements of paragraph 281.

You propose to live with your husband and his mother in Mitcham. You have submitted no independently variable evidence of the property you propose to inhabit such as a Property Inspection Report (PIR). I am therefore not satisfied that you meet the requirements of paragraph 281.

I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied on the balance probabilities that you meet all of the requirements of the relevant Paragraph of the United Kingdom Immigration Rules.

thanks juvy

what evidence did you submit to show you was in the philippines ?

did you mention who would be looking after the child ? did you not mention once you was settled you will be applying for a visa for him in your letter of support ?

is his father named on his birth cert ?

you can get your council or an estate agent to do the report about your moms house, did you include a copy of the deeds, land reg docs, pictures of each room a letter of support from your mom ?

[joebloggs]

Hi Terpe
I submitted what I consider a good supporting letter. I took 2 days writing it because I had learnt from this forum that it was quite important. I detailed everything about our relationship from the names of the friends who introduced us right up to our marriage and really opened my heart in the letter. I highlighted various documents that was included with the application. There was also a letter from my mother included which aswell as saying we were going to live with her also showed her support for the relationship and how she and the rest of my family were so looking forward to my wife coming.
I do find the refusal strange on the basis of the evidence we submitted and must say that I also find it offensive as he appears to have come to some strange conclusions. I would actually like to ask him what he thinks the problem is between date of divorce and date of marriage. I also think that stating my wife will be deserting her son is very nasty and she is very upset about this.
I propose to spend my weekend constructing the letter for reconsideration for the ECM and in the meantime the appeal will go ahead.
My understanding is that the appeal will be held in the UK and it will be my intention to attend if allowed.
Finally all original documents were returned with the refusal and all the documents that I have referred to in this thread were in the package.
Sadly I feel all the evidence was there but he just chose not to read it.

sorry just saw your reply, best option is to ask for a reconsideration, from what you've said it looks like the refusal would be overturned, it looks like someone was taking the or had a really bad day

[lastlid]

....... it looks like someone was taking the or had a really bad day

I agree.

But I still say that the relevant supervisor or an experienced colleague (if it was a trainee) should have cross checked the decision as a matter of routine. So it isn't all down to one person. This calls into question the practices actually adopted within the department. There is a lot riding on the decision for all parties involved so stiff practices on double checks ought to be the norm.

[Arthur Little]

There is a lot riding on the decision for all parties involved so stiff practices on double checks ought to be the norm.

.. those SHOULD be carried out as a matter of course.

[lastlid]

.. those SHOULD be carried out as a matter of course.

Correct me if I am wrong Arthur....I thought that was the essence of UK government departments?

[Arthur Little]

Correct me if I am wrong Arthur....I thought that was the essence of UK government departments?

It IS ... basically! Whilst fundamentally, the role of the civil servant is to implement with integrity - and to the best of his/her abiliity - government decisions channelled through the appropriate department(s) by which he/she is employed ... of no lesser importance, is the duty to ensure that the affairs of members of the public - whom he/she equally serves - are conducted sympathetically, efficiently, promptly ... and, above all, fairly.

Clearly, in Marco's case, the individual concerned has fallen short of this standard ... and ought to be disciplined.

[lastlid]

It IS ... basically! Whilst fundamentally, the role of the civil servant is to implement with integrity - and to the best of his/her abiliity - government decisions channelled through the appropriate department(s) by which he/she is employed ... of no lesser importance, is the duty to ensure that the affairs of members of the public - whom he/she equally serves - are conducted sympathetically, efficiently, promptly ... and, above all, fairly.

Clearly, in Marco's case, the individual concerned has fallen short of this standard ... and ought to be disciplined.

Thanks for that. I thought that would be the case. But wasn't certain if things were different in 2012. You know, young ECOs of today and all that.....

[stevie c]

Did they lose half the documents ?

This is total crap if all information was actually supplied.

Graham that is exactly what im thinking ....... has some of the docs been mislaid or lost

[grahamw48]

Well, apparently Marco received them all back intact, but were they all read ?

This case really stinks, have to say.

When I see stuff like this I'm always tempted to contact brother at the FCO, but just can't do that...maybe for myself if in real trouble.

[Terpe]

Everyone makes mistakes, but when an Immigration Officer makes a mistake it has devastating impacts.
This has got to be the strangest case for me personally. How can you legally get married without meeting?
What on earth is the correlation between the date of issue of final divorce and the actual breakdown of a relationship?
Why is the ECO using language like abandonment?

On the face of it this should be an open and shut case at any actual reconsideration.
But the appeal must be lodged and the process followed.

Personally, I cannot get my head around this one.

[lastlid]

This has got to be the strangest case for me personally. How can you legally get married without meeting?

I don't know if its the same for everybody but my finger print is on our Philippine marriage certificate!! And there were 6 witnesses including the reverend. How did I do that without being there in the Philippines in person?

[lastlid]

Everyone makes mistakes, but when an Immigration Officer makes a mistake it has devastating impacts.

For me this isn't an indvidual's mistake / ineptitude / bloodymindedness. The whole system is wrong as a cross check would have picked up on the original up.

In the world of Elf and Safety this is like the swiss cheese syndrome. If all the cheese holes are lined up then the mouse just runs through to the other side (or something like that) .....or why air accidents occur.......

http://homepage.mac.com/lesposen/ibl...962/index.html


".....about how humans and organisations (not just aviation but nuclear plants and governments) commit errors and how such incidents can be prevented once their causes are understood. In particular, he has developed what he calls the "Swiss Cheese" model of incident occurrence."

I think it is used in the world of medicine too.

[grahamw48]

I don't know if its the same for everybody but my finger print is on our Philippine marriage certificate!! And there were 6 witnesses including the reverend. How did I do that without being there in the Philippines in person?

That's why I had photos taken of the actual marriage ceremony (with the ex).

[bigmarco]

Hi Guys
Just to confirm that I checked with the wife and all original documents have been returned. The documents prove beyond doubt that I've been to the Philippines twice. Passport, Marriage Certificate, Local CNI issued by British Embassy, Personal Photos, Professional Wedding Photos, Plane Ticket Receipts and a Hotel Receipt. I've even got a picture of me standing beside the deputy mayor of Malabon on my wedding day.
I've been driving trains all day and this can really play on your mind.
I really think whoever it was must of had a bad day I honestly cant think of anything else.
As Terpe says to use the term abandonment is disgusting. The Child will be well looked after by his Grand Parents and he goes to a lovely school and he's doing very well. When the time is right he will join us in the UK. His Mum is devoted to him.
As regards the date of divorce and the date of Marriage I cannot see what he is trying to suggest. I applied for the divorce so that we could marry and if we hadn't met and decided to Marry I probably wouldn't have rushed to divorce for no other reason than financial. My Marriage was over long before we met I just hadn't got round to making it legal.
Other points he makes in the refusal clearly show he never studied it properly. He mentions that I have a daughter when in fact we told them I have 2 daughters who are both working and not dependant on me other than a sub before pay day lol.
He then refers to my Mum living in Mitcham when infact her address is Brixton.
All in all I expect no special treatment just the same sense of fair play as everyone else expects. We have nothing to hide just another couple in love who want to spend the rest of their lives together. I have invested alot in this relationship not only financially but emotionally and I'm very sorry that some in an office in Manila doesn't approve but rest assured whatever it takes and however long it takes my wife will join me in the UK.
For the first time since this nightmare began I am actually crying now which is probably a good thing as it will make me even more determined. I will be composing a letter of reconsideration for my wife to deliver to the embassy and hopefully it works but I will also be submitting the appeal. I also intend trying to see my MP asap.
I would like to thank everyone for their kind words and great advice you are an amazing bunch. If one good thing comes from this it will be the ability to help others who God forbid find themselves in a similar situation in future.
Onwards and Upwards. I love you Mary Grace.

[lastlid]

Hi Guys
Just to confirm that I checked with the wife and all original documents have been returned. The documents prove beyond doubt that I've been to the Philippines twice. Passport, Marriage Certificate, Local CNI issued by British Embassy, Personal Photos, Professional Wedding Photos, Plane Ticket Receipts and a Hotel Receipt. I've even got a picture of me standing beside the deputy mayor of Malabon on my wedding day.
I've been driving trains all day and this can really play on your mind.
I really think whoever it was must of had a bad day I honestly cant think of anything else.
As Terpe says to use the term abandonment is disgusting. The Child will be well looked after by his Grand Parents and he goes to a lovely school and he's doing very well. When the time is right he will join us in the UK. His Mum is devoted to him.
As regards the date of divorce and the date of Marriage I cannot see what he is trying to suggest. I applied for the divorce so that we could marry and if we hadn't met and decided to Marry I probably wouldn't have rushed to divorce for no other reason than financial. My Marriage was over long before we met I just hadn't got round to making it legal.
Other points he makes in the refusal clearly show he never studied it properly. He mentions that I have a daughter when in fact we told them I have 2 daughters who are both working and not dependant on me other than a sub before pay day lol.
He then refers to my Mum living in Mitcham when infact her address is Brixton.
All in all I expect no special treatment just the same sense of fair play as everyone else expects. We have nothing to hide just another couple in love who want to spend the rest of their lives together. I have invested alot in this relationship not only financially but emotionally and I'm very sorry that some in an office in Manila doesn't approve but rest assured whatever it takes and however long it takes my wife will join me in the UK.
For the first time since this nightmare began I am actually crying now which is probably a good thing as it will make me even more determined. I will be composing a letter of reconsideration for my wife to deliver to the embassy and hopefully it works but I will also be submitting the appeal. I also intend trying to see my MP asap.
I would like to thank everyone for their kind words and great advice you are an amazing bunch. If one good thing comes from this it will be the ability to help others who God forbid find themselves in a similar situation in future.
Onwards and Upwards. I love you Mary Grace.

Nice one Marco. Your divorce circumstances are completely plausible. My divorce took a good couple of years to go through and the final date bore no relation to the initial filing of divorce. Naievity at best is a possibility here on that one. I tried to explain this one to my wife and she couldnt follow my explaination and she jumped to the same conclusion as the ECO person who wrote the rational for the refusal, but then my wife isnt familiar with UK divorce fullstop.......

[grahamw48]

You have friends on here Marco and people who understand, sharing your pain.

I'm really confident that you will come through this and that your wife will eventually have a spouse visa in her passport.

I'm wondering if your documents/application was confused with those of another applicant, so ridiculous is this case.

My ex also left her son in the Phils incidentally....with grandparents (and the daughter she hadn't told me about ). Didn't stop her getting a visa.

We later brought both of the children to the UK too.

[bigmarco]

Letter of Reconsideration now sent to the ECM and hopefully this does the trick. Regardless the appeal goes ahead.

[Dedworth]

Fingers crossed

[lastlid]

Letter of Reconsideration now sent to the ECM and hopefully this does the trick. Regardless the appeal goes ahead.

[joebloggs]

good luck

[Terpe]

Letter of Reconsideration now sent to the ECM and hopefully this does the trick. Regardless the appeal goes ahead.

Good work, well done and very best of luck.
yes, you must lodge the appeal.

[Trefor]

So sorry to hear this. Even though the documents were sent/returned perhaps they were completely ignored during the consideration process (for whatever reason). Best of luck with an appeal or re-filing.

[sars_notd_virus]

good luck