Wife visa granted...2 kids refused! Help please!

[MarkR]

Having got all excited when we received the email from VFS saying the 'visa' was on it's way my wife and I are now devastated - when she opened the parcel she found refusal notices for the kids visas!

Despite doing everything I could to try to prove sole responsibility it seems the ECO has chosen to believe that the natural father of her kids is still involved in their life, which he most certainly is not!

It seems that we need to use form IAFT-2 or apply online via the Ministry of Justice website to appeal. Does anyone have any experience of doing this?

I am not sure what extra evidence we can provide to support the appeal anyway!

On a related note- my wifes visa WAS granted. Would she be able to visit for a month using her settlement visa?

What happens if the appeal succeeds but not until 6 months have gone by - her visa by then will have less than 2 years to run?

Sorry this is not very coherent, I only found this out this morning at 6.30am and I feel desperate. Can anyone recommend a good immigration advisor that could help us please?

Mark.

[lastlid]

WOW. Sympathys on this outcome, Mark.

[joebloggs]

seems kids are being refused more often now maybe its the start of something

has your wife ever been apart from her kids ?
do they have any contact at all with their bio father?

i take it your wife got a 27 month spouse visa? if so she can stay in the phils for nearly 4 months b4 she has to come to the uk without the need to apply for flr later.

she could come here and go back to the phils but depending on how long she goes for, she might need to apply for flr later, less than 3 months a year outside the uk she shouldn't have a problem getting ILR later without the need to apply for FLR.

[MarkR]

Yes my wife got the full visa length but with appeals seemingly taking forever it is hard to see how it will not be much less than 2 years left by the time any outcome is known.

We submitted an affidavit signed by the father saying he gives responsibility to the mother etc etc but that seems to have backfired as the ECO seems to be suspicious about it for some reason. He also says we need a court order to prove she has responsibility for the kids despite Filipino law automatically granting responsibility to the mother when the child is under 7 (and hers are 2 and 4).

The father lives in Quezon City, Metro Manila whilst my wife lives in Butuan, Mindanao, they do not have contact for the last few months, something which the ECO again feels is suspicious!? I provide ALL of the financial support for my wife and the kids and we included all the money transfer documents to prove it.

We have 28 days to appeal but if they are insistent that a court order is needed then I don't see how we could possibly get one in that space of time, so what to do? Do I write off £2700 in visa fees and re-apply from scratch in another 6 months time! It was stressful enough the first time around.

[Eyes O'Donnell]

Hi Mark,
Congratulations on your wife's visa success and sorry to hear about your kids refusal.
God bless

[imagine]

my Sympathy to you on this outcome, i just cant understand passing your wifes visa but not the children, i just wonder what mentality they have,
i wish you much luck to get this resolved,

[joebloggs]

definate increase in the number of settlement visas being refused for kids due to Sole responsibility , why now ? something is going on

[lastlid]

my Sympathy to you on this outcome, i just cant understand passing your wifes visa but not the children, i just wonder what mentality they have,
i wish you much luck to get this resolved,

An act of devilment? Or just thoughtlessness?

You would think they would have communicated with Mark and given him the option to defer the visa......

[aim_angel]

I am so sorry to hear about your kids visa refusal.

[bigmarco]

Hi Mark very sorry to hear your bad news. My wife and I have recently had our spousal visa refused and are currently in the process of submitting our appeal. However under advice from some of the very knowledgeable people on this forum we have initially submitted a letter of reconsideration to the Entry Clearance Manager at the Embassy detailing the errors that were made in our refusal and asking for him to reconsider the matter. There is no guarantee that he will but its certainly worth trying. In the meantime we have continued with our appeal which will shortly be submitted in the Uk.
One of our other Members has recently had his wifes visa granted and the childs refused in almost identical circumstances to you and I believe he is submitting a letter of reconsideration aswell as his appeal form.
I'm sure you will get more advice from our experts but in the meantime in view of the time it could take to get to appeal was wondering would it not benefit your case if your wife applied for a court order.
My sincere best wishes to you both and I hope it will not be to long before you are all together in the UK.

[Arthur Little]

Congratulations on Ann obtaining her Spousal Visa, Mark. However, I'm so sorry to learn of the less successful outcome relating to her childrens' applications. Indeed, only last week, we were informed of a similar instance ... where the wife's settlement was granted and that of her 5-yr-old son denied [see the relevant thread 'Happy and Sad' by Bruce]. Perhaps you might care to and compare notes.

Purely a suggestion.

[RickyR]

Was your wife married to the father of the child and the annulled? If so, please check the decree as it will show the custody granted for the child, most likely sole custody. This may be a useful piece of evidence.

The immigration rules have some quite clear requirements on issuing visas to step children, and often its a case of proving that the father has had no responsibility towards the children etc. You may need to make a legal affidavit to this effect, which would be useful to send for the reconsideration. This can be done very easily through a solicitor, although the best way would be to have it done through a DFA approved solicitor and have it DFA attested.

[MarkR]

I've copied one of the refusal notices below, after removing names etc. The other is the same. There are some more words which did not get scanned I put them in below the image.


I have therefore refused your application because i am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities,that you meet all of the requirements of the relevant paragraph of the uk immigration rules.

<My Wifes Name>: in reaching this decision to refuse your visa application, I have given careful consideration to your qualified right to the family and private life under article 8 of the european convention on human rights.
<My Wifes Name>: however I am satisfied that any perceived interference with your right to the family life under article 8 is proportionate to the aim of maintaining an effective immigration control and does not therefore breach your convention right. In additional,I am not satisfied that there are any insurmountable obstacles to your family member travelling to the Phillipines to enjoy family life with you in this country.

<My Wifes Name>: visit www.justice.gov.uk

[cessxy]

Sorry for the refusal of your step kids. Ive notice that eco refused a visa with the signed of biological father recently. Maybe better not to submit that instead? correct me if im wrong.

[MarkR]

The assertion that due to the wording of the affidavit that they (MY wife and her ex partner) still live together beggars belief...do they think every time I visited (4 times in 1.5 years) that we had a threesome!! What planet does this ECO live on? His reference was in the PAST tense!

The father (and no they were never married, in fact she found out he was already married with 6 legitimate kids) lives in Q.C. on Luzon (where he works for the deputy prime minister so fairly necessary that he lives there) and my wife lives in Butuan in Mindanao, about 600 miles and several islands apart.

The reason he no longer has any contact is because he can't be bothered anymore trying to talk to his son because his son doesn't like him. As for the 2 yr old daughter she doesn't even know him.

How do I formulate a measured reasonable appeal when I am so angry I want to rip out the heart of the ECO (though obviously he or she does not have a heart).. AHHHHHH.

Well if anyone has any suggestions or would like to see the affidavit (or even the whole Sole responsibility pack we submitted) I would be very grateful. I followed the other thread that was mention (Happy and Sad) and indeed it is similar so I may be ringing some UK solicitor tomorrow.

[RickyR]

Hi Mark,

Unfortunately, without realising it, you've shot yourself in the foot with the evidence you provided. Without the statement from the father and without mentioning that he had any involvement, then you would have been absolutely fine, hindsight is a wonderful thing. That being said, I'm almost certain this is an issue that you will be able to overcome.
I don't think they were suggesting that your wife and her ex partner were living together, more that custody and responsibility of the child was shared somehow.

The first part is to know what immigration rules they base their ruling on and this is the following

(e) one parent is present and settled in the United Kingdom or being admitted on the same occasion for settlement and has had sole responsibility for the child's upbringing; or

(f) one parent or a relative is present and settled in the United Kingdom or being admitted on the same occasion for settlement and there are serious and compelling family or other considerations which make exclusion of the child undesirable and suitable arrangements have been made for the child's care; and

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/po...art8/children/

You have to ensure that your can meet one of those two requirements, and often in your letter of reconsideration it is worth quoting either of those paragraphs and relating your situation to how it meets that.

What is the situation in terms of sole custody? Was your wife and her ex-partner previously married. Can you obtain sole custody? Can you give the reasons why her husband has lost contact.

If the father had failed to show the best interests of the child by providing a supporting letter, then you'd have been able to prove that it was in the childs best interests not to remain with him.

Your next step will probably have to be a claim of sole custody through the courts.

[Terpe]

MarkR,
I am truly sorry to hear this awful news.
You did your best and followed the guidance as best you knew how.
There are a number of similar cases now that follow similar reasons for refusal.

My advice is to follow precisely the appeals route and be sure it's within the time allowed.
I would also follow up with a letter to the Embassy for the attention of the ECM (Entry Clearance Manager) asking for reconsideration and highlighting the reasons your feel the ECO may have misunderstood the supplied evidence.

Now personally I strongly suggest you seek the help of an experienced and professional immigration advisor to help with the appeal.
I don't know just how long the appeals are taking these days, but the advisor will know.
Also they can help you decide if it's worth making a re-application. Bear in mind the huge cost of re-application and the fact that you will need to strongly counter ALL refusal reasons previously given.

Be guided by the professionals, they are fully up to date with current caselaw. This is much too serious now.

Good luck
My prayers are with you all.

[MarkR]

Thanks Terpe,

I am intending to take your advice and am going to contact a solicitor that someone with a name remarkably similar to yours has already recommended on a similar thread. I only wish I had used the services of one when making the original application.

Thanks to everyone for their best wishes, we really need the encouragement at this time.

[RickyR]

Good luck with it all MarkR, and I'm sure you'll overcome these issues. Don't give up hope.

[joebloggs]

I don't know just how long the appeals are taking these days, but the advisor will know.

sorry to say up to 6 months

[sars_notd_virus]

I suggest an appeal and fresh applications for the 2 kids , unnecesary documents have been submitted with the ECO i dont think they will reconsider it reading about the refusal

[andy222]

An act of devilment? Or just thoughtlessness?

You would think they would have communicated with Mark and given him the option to defer the visa......

Its all about the ukba making money lastlid. This is crazy. Feel sorry for you Mark.

[MarkR]

Well I've just had a long conversation with a very nice immigration adviser that who seems to come recommended by members of this forum. She has read the refusal and the affidavit and thinks there are plenty of grounds to appeal rather than re-apply so I gave her the go ahead.

She agrees that the affadavit (which was not my idea!) was badly worded so that it did sound like they still lived together. But also pointed out that if they truly believed that then my wife should not have got her visa either!

Anyway we now face a nerve racking few month(s) depending on whether the ECM turns over the decision or we have to go the whole appeal route!

[lastlid]

Well I've just had a long conversation with a very nice immigration adviser that who seems to come recommended by members of this forum. She has read the refusal and the affidavit and thinks there are plenty of grounds to appeal rather than re-apply so I gave her the go ahead.

She agrees that the affadavit (which was not my idea!) was badly worded so that it did sound like they still lived together. But also pointed out that if they truly believed that then my wife should not have got her visa either!

Anyway we now face a nerve racking few month(s) depending on whether the ECM turns over the decision or we have to go the whole appeal route!

Well, good luck with the appeal Mark. Keep us posted.

[andy222]

Thats the problem when you cant explain to the ukba direct.

[Terpe]

Well I've just had a long conversation with a very nice immigration adviser that who seems to come recommended by members of this forum. She has read the refusal and the affidavit and thinks there are plenty of grounds to appeal rather than re-apply so I gave her the go ahead.

She agrees that the affadavit (which was not my idea!) was badly worded so that it did sound like they still lived together. But also pointed out that if they truly believed that then my wife should not have got her visa either!

Anyway we now face a nerve racking few month(s) depending on whether the ECM turns over the decision or we have to go the whole appeal route!

Well done Mark for your quick action.
An experience and smart adviser has the ability to turn things around.
Personally, I think there's probably a number of contributing issues in addition to the wording of the affadavit that influenced the ECO. They certainly seemed under the impression that the bio-father was providing more than a casual responsibility. Make me wonder if he had any additional inputs and/or motivation.

Anyways, good luck Mark, and hope you will be able to share some of your experience as the appeal moves on.
Maybe the letter requesting reconsideration will swing it. It often does if an ECM believes an injustice has been done.

[Stevi]

Hi Mark,
I have applied for Unmarried partner last Feb 7, and also for my 2 children as my dependent so far haven't heard a thing from the uk embassy. In the application form of my 2 children age 15 and 17 I have noted that with their birth certificate, their father and I was married but never was for the intention that the kids could go to exclusive school someday, we did registered we were married and to prrove that the marriage never took place, I provided an evidence from our local registrar which proves that no such marriage existed between me and my ex on that particular date and got also no Record of Marriage at the NSO and lastly a Cenomar that prove that I was never married with Him.so far I am also in agony not sure really if. They will accept all those proof the father giver us consent and I did certified that.
Still waiting for the major decision from them. I am happy to hear that your wife got her visa but she must be Brocken hearted upon learning that she can't take the kids. But I believe nothing is impossible yuo can make it it's just a matter of time don't give up!

[lastlid]

Thats the problem when you cant explain to the ukba direct.

Yes. I kind of wish they were a bit more people friendly and more communicative. And a bit more careful when it comes down to peoples lives. Everything is so much more stressful when they mishandle applications.

[Stevi]

2 and 4 where is the heart of the person who refused this visa or Zgod sake they te still babies""!

[MarkR]

Obviously the ECO has no heart at all. Actually after another day has gone by (my birthday too) I feel almost worse than on Thursday. I cannot get over my anger at the ECO. I paid almost £1800 for the 2 kids visas which are identical to consider. For that money I would expect them to perform at least the basic fact checking before accusing me, my wife and all her supporters who wrote letters, of lying. In reality the lazy, incompetent @@@@ seems to have barely done £50 worth of work. He should be ashamed.