Minimum Income Proposals

[Arthur Little]

There's been a great deal of concern amongst our membership in recent months over government plans to set a certain income level for those hoping to bring non-European partners for settlement in the United Kingdom.

At the moment, the figure being bandied about is, I believe, somewhere around £26,000 per annum.

First of all, I should stress that - as far as I am aware - no final decisions have yet been made as regards the implementation of these draconian measures ... nor indeed if they will even be approved.

Anyway ... in an effort to quell the fears of those folk most likely to be affected in the event of the green light being given - and, as a former Local Government Employee, earning a Gross Annual Salary of *£10,386 at the time of my early retiral as a Senior Clerical Assistant in 1993 - I took the liberty, this forenoon, of contacting my local Council's Human Resources Department to enquire what *that amount would equate to in present day terms.

Here's what I discovered:

Almost two decades on, £10,386 would be equivalent to £17 -£18k approximately - at best! Quite a shock, really! And a bit of a wasted effort on my part. But, if nothing else, it proves what I'd long suspected ... £26,000 is nowhere near what the Government claims to be "average". On the contrary, it's still considerably ABOVE average.

That's what so damned unfair about such proposals.

[grahamw48]

There seems to be no logic applied to wage rates these days.

A bin man hooking up wheelie bins to the back of a truck is probably getting paid more than the person who pays his wages.

Now when they used to be humping heavy bins on their shoulders from the back of people's houses and physically tipping the things into an open truck....YES they were earning their (much lower then) money.

On the other hand there are the thousands of Quango employees on 40 grand a year for pushing bits of paper about and making money on their travel expenses.

[malchard888]

Yes indeed Arthur, its sounds like if you work in central London u are more likely to meet their suggested salary scale than if you live like u do in central Scotland. Another crazy, unfair and ridiculous idea from this dithering Government

[Arthur Little]

s, Graham & Malcolm!!

Binmen, or "scaffies" ... as they were once called - nowadays redesignated 'Refuse Collection Officers' - do a helluva lot less backbreaking work than they used to ... for a much LARGER pay.

[sars_notd_virus]

Everything has gone up but not our wages

[grahamw48]

Surely the only TRUE measure has to be DISPOSABLE income...just as mortgage lenders go by .

[Terpe]

Surely the only TRUE measure has to be DISPOSABLE income...just as mortgage lenders go by .

Totally agree Graham.
The government has opted for gross income as that is the key determinant for most benefits and, allegedly, one of the drivers of these proposals is to eliminate the benefits factor.

[lastlid]

Surely the only TRUE measure has to be DISPOSABLE income...just as mortgage lenders go by .

Its easier to measure / assess gross income than disposable income.................so I guess they take the easier route.......

[lastlid]

Surely the only TRUE measure has to be DISPOSABLE income...just as mortgage lenders go by .

I have had 3 mortgages over the course of time and I seem to recall they were all looked at with my gross income in mind. But I took my final mortgage out a good number of years ago, so maybe things have changed.....

[lastlid]

Here are the stats........

Mean gross UK annual income, regardless of area. The statistical national average of about 26000 squidly diddlys. Presumably what the government are going by. I sympathise with those that live in areas where local average incomes are below the national average.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...inflation.html

BTW the average male earns more than this figure and the average female less.....

[lastlid]

Here's even more stats....showing average figures for different forms of employment....doesn't cover the binmen though......

http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/...Kingdom/Salary


And interestingly...........by city......

http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/...Salary#by_City

[grahamw48]

I've been involved in selling finance for many years, and when correctly completed all finance application forms (including mortgages and bank loans) will include a detailed list of OUTGOINGS, thereby arriving at the applicant's DISPOSABLE income.

This is the only way in which a lender can ascertain whether the prospective borrower is able to COMFORTABLY meet the repayments.

It was of course the widespread ignoring of these basic requirements which ultimately led to the collapse of the banking industry, especially in the USA.

Now though at first it may appear more complicated for the govt. to base their income requirements on disposable income, in fact they actually have more detailed (and confidential) information to hand than does the average mortgage lender or bank...especially in the case of those submitting a visa application !

As usual, our silly ex-prep school MPs have little knowledge of commerce and their methods of sorting the wheat from the chaff (when applied correctly ).

[lastlid]

I've been involved in selling finance for many years, and when correctly completed all finance application forms (including mortgages and bank loans) will include a detailed list of OUTGOINGS, thereby arriving at the applicant's DISPOSABLE income.

This is the only way in which a lender can ascertain whether the prospective borrower is able to COMFORTABLY meet the repayments.

It was of course the widespread ignoring of these basic requirements which ultimately led to the collapse of the banking industry, especially in the USA.

Now though at first it may appear more complicated for the govt. to base their income requirements on disposable income, in fact they actually have more detailed (and confidential) information to hand than does the average mortgage lender or bank...especially in the case of those submitting a visa application !

As usual, our silly ex-prep school MPs have little knowledge of commerce and their methods of sorting the wheat from the chaff (when applied correctly ).

I guess you are right Graham. Thinking about it they did ask about other outgoings.....the initial focus was on gross income but they must have been looking at outgoings too....

As usual, our silly ex-prep school MPs have little knowledge of commerce and their methods of sorting the wheat from the chaff (when applied correctly ).

I just think they can't be bothered to go that far....

[zaxy]

we shall see in june how things go

[Arthur Little]

we shall see in june how things go

Well ... ... "June is burstin' out all over" (more than can be said for the !). And, with the advent of 'Summer', the Queen's Diamond Jubilee Celebrations - a truly awe-inspiring feast of Pomp & Ceremony - intermingled with marvellous entertainment for those privileged to attend.


Happy days, eh?


But, back to stark reality! Sadly, all good things must come to an end. Notably absent from St Paul's earlier, was the gloomy shadow of one, Theresa May. Could it be she is lurking in the corridors of power ... waiting to pounce with her radical shakeup of the Immigration System?

Tomorrow ... all is due to be revealed. Anyone heard anything definite yet?

[joebloggs]

i doubt tomoz Arthur but looks like it will be sometime this month ..

[lastlid]

They did say the 6th June....but....

[BoholoX]

I hopw with all the celebrations it's not a good time to bury bad news...

[gWaPito]

To be honest, if this proposed £ 26k minimum is going help reduce the welfare bill then surely it gotta be a good thing.

There are a whole raft of benefits to be claimed as a couple after the ILR is in there palms.

Surely, morally it isn't right to expect others to supplement there income. I know there's a long list of injustices going on right now in our country. By adding to it doesn't make it right.

Im afraid, for a very few, they could possibly become victims of our own generous (for some ) welfare system.

[Arthur Little]

To be honest, if this proposed £ 26k minimum is going help reduce the welfare bill then surely it gotta be a good thing.

There are a whole raft of benefits to be claimed as a couple after the ILR is in there palms.

Surely, morally it isn't right to expect others to supplement there income. I know there's a long list of injustices going on right now in our country. By adding to it doesn't make it right.

Im afraid, for a very few, they could possibly become victims of our own generous (for some ) welfare system.

We've had this argument before ... and I'd rather NOT go through it all again - BUT, there are a great many decent, hard working British people who earn nothing like £26K a year. Quite a few on here, in fact! Okay, you might ... but at what cost timewise? How many extra hours per day do you work for that kind of money? And is it really worth seeing less of your wife and son for the sake of it?

Referring to your 3rd paragraph in #19 ... what's "morally right" about denying an individual the basic human right to bring his/her lawfully wedded partner to live in the country where he/she was born and bred - and paid tax - because he/she simply doesn't earn enough (despite working full time) to sponsor their partner's application?

[lastlid]

there are a great many decent, hard working British people who earn nothing like £26K a year.

66%

[gWaPito]

We've had this argument before ... and I'd rather NOT go through it all again - BUT, there are a great many decent, hard working British people who earn nothing like £26K a year. Okay, you might ... but at what cost timewise? How many extra hours per day do you work for that kind of money? And is it really worth seeing less of your wife and son for the sake of it?

Referring to your 3rd paragraph in #19 ... what's "morally right" about denying an individual the basic human right to bring his/her lawfully wedded partner to live in the country where he/she was born and bred ... simply because he/she simply doesn't earn enough (despite working full time) to sponsor the partner's application?

Btw Its actually sons now ..you shouldn't assume what im doing or earning Arthur. Nothing wrong in your last sentence....what is wrong is what ive already pointed out..ie not at the expense of the other tax payers..claiming benefits because of your partner...not too dissimilar to going to the pub with a bunch of mates then expecting them to keep you in fags and drink all night...not the done thing.

[lastlid]

To be honest, if this proposed £ 26k minimum is going help reduce the welfare bill then surely it gotta be a good thing.

There are a whole raft of benefits to be claimed as a couple after the ILR is in there palms.

Surely, morally it isn't right to expect others to supplement there income. I know there's a long list of injustices going on right now in our country. By adding to it doesn't make it right.

Im afraid, for a very few, they could possibly become victims of our own generous (for some ) welfare system.

Being no expert on what you can and cant claim, there is one benefit I know of and thats childs tax credits.....£ 25k and under you can claim...im sure, amongst others

I still fail to see how someone who is married to any spouse and is earning 25 grand a year, for example, being classed as a burden on the state. Especially if they have worked all their life. And as for Child Tax Credit - isnt that tax relief and not a benefit? Why should someone who earns 20 to 25 grand a year be penalised by being not allowed to bring their spouse into the country on financial grounds. I say again, need it be as high as 26 grand.....

[gWaPito]

I still fail to see how someone who is married to any spouse and is earning 25 grand a year, for example, being classed as a burden on the state. Especially if they have worked all their life. And as for Child Tax Credit - isnt that tax relief and not a benefit? Why should someone who earns 20 to 25 grand a year be penalised by being not allowed to bring their spouse into the country on financial grounds. I say again, need it be as high as 26 grand.....

Child benefit is a benefit....child tax credit is exactly that, a hand out.

[lastlid]

I dont think it needs to be as high as 26k. Why that high?

[gWaPito]

I dont think it needs to be as high as 26k. Why that high?

Being no expert on what you can and cant claim, there is one benefit I know of and thats childs tax credits.....£ 25k and under you can claim...im sure, amongst others

[lastlid]

Being no expert on what you can and cant claim, there is one benefit I know of and thats childs tax credits.....£ 25k and under you can claim...im sure, amongst others

Okay. I see where you are coming from. But I still think £26k is too high. I can't see why tax credit alone can come between 66% of UK earners and their foreign spouses coming to the UK. Tax credit could be waived for sponsors, for example.

[lastlid]

I would quite like to see the government figures if 26k is based on potential welfare benefits claimable. Fortunately such a ruling wont affect me as I am the right side of that figure. But ...

[joebloggs]

the figure of £25k+ was mentioned, because at that income you wouldn't qualify for some benefits, what makes this wrong is, that as a British Citizen if your eligible to apply for the benefit then you have a legal right to, apply the same rules to those who are from the EU who are in the UK and after a few months of working here they can claim those benefits but they dont want you a British citizen to, that they will refuse your wife a visa . yet some Europeans in the UK can claim child benefit etc for their kids back in their own country

[gWaPito]

Okay. I see where you are coming from. But I still think £26k is too high. I can't see why tax credit alone can come between 66% of UK earners and their foreign spouses coming to the UK. Tax credit could be waived for sponsors, for example.

So who's gonna pay the short fall? Is it right to expect the already hard pressed tax payers of this land to furnish your chosen lifestyle.

Im not out to make mischief here, im just looking at it from the ordinary guy in the street point of view.