Ridiculous.............

[benjy]

hi, new to the site so bare with me.....

My girlfriend and i have been dating for nearly 18 months now and i have visted her twice 3weeks and 5 weeks stints... so anyway we applied for her visit visa to meet my family and friends on the 24/4/12 the have denied her entry.. here is a quote from the letter...


" I am not satisfied your intentions are as claimed and that you only intend to visit UK for a holiday, therefore I am not satisfied on the balance of probabilities that you are genuinely seeking entry for the limited period as stated by you or that you intend to leave the uk at the end of your proposed visit.
You have not provided any evidence of your employment or stated income or shown that your employers are aware and approve of your month absence..I am therefore not satisfied that you have any employment to return to. In the absence of satisfactory evidence, I consider that you have failed to show sufficiently strong family, social or economic ties to the Philippines.Your right of appeal is limited to the grounds referred to in section 84(1)(c) of the Nationality,Immigration and Asylum Act 2002(www.legislation.gov.uk)"


we provided an inch thick of all the relative evidence that we needed for the application, yet they never asked for any visual proof of my girlfriends non exsistant contract or payslips... she works in a reteraunt in gen san and her last payslip was a piece of till paper with number scribbled on it... how can we submit that and ensure they will take that seriously!!!! it makes furious my own country has carried on about people human rights yet they have denied me and my girlfriends! to have a happy 6 months together here!!!! anyway i have written to my local mp after viewing another thread exactly the same.....wish me luck

ben and jen

[Steve.r]

This country is slowly ... no, quickly losing all sence fairness towards 'real' people and their lives. I wish you luck with the MP, but I think they will just tow the line

[benjy]

I hope she doesnt but if she does i can see this being a very long and painful process.... all it is a holiday! why is it so hard..... really makes me sick

[Terpe]

Hi there benjy, welcome to the forum

I'm sorry to hear of the visa refusal.

Unfortunately General Visit visa is notoriously problematic for many reasons.
Not least because approval or refusal of General Visitor (tourist) visa applications is principally based on the discretion of the ECO from the evidence submitted.

The major complication is the need by the applicant to prove a non-immigrant intent. Applicants wishing to come to the UK under a tourist visit must clearly demonstrate that they do not intend to remain in the UK on a permanent basis.

UK immigration law places this 'burden of proof' on the applicant.
In order to grant a temporary visa, the ECO must be satisfied that the applicant has strong social, economic and family ties abroad that would compel them to leave the UK at the end of the temporary stay.

Sorry to say this, but often the ECO wants a little more supporting evidence if there is an existing romantic relationship between the applicant and any supporting sponsor.
It's unfortunate I know, but some additional focus is needed to overcome this presumption.

The absolute keys are always going to be:-

- Reasons to return home that clearly outweigh reasons to stay
- Financials

Strong ties differ from country to country, city to city, individual to individual.
Some examples of ties can be a job, a house, social and family relationships, a bank account, possessions etc
The ECO is looking to see if the aspects of your life that bind you to your country outweigh those aspects that may cause you to be unwilling to return to your home country, or to attempt to change or extend your visa status.

The risks and the costs for making a new application are very small, so nothing to lose and everything to gain.

You certainly need to focus on reasons to return home, and perhaps try requesting a shorter stay than 6 months

I wouldn't hold out too much hope on help from your MP on this one.
My advice would be to re-apply with a much stronger focus on the key issues

[benjy]

I fully agree with you but why dont they let you know this ???? But if its an issue why dont they contact you before the point blank refuse 2 decent people their future!! seems like its rather hit and miss with the visa's my girlfriend has a friend who has been here on a visit visa and they said in th eapplication that her boyfriend supports her and she has no work...... which of springs to mind in bad light would be the most likely candidate to overstay the visa and become an illegal... its completly blown my mind apart especially not being able to sleep last night sighhhhhh

[Steve.r]

I can imagine how upsetting this is for you both, but what Terpe has said is spot on. Try a far more focussed approach with supporting letters from her employer, brgy Captain, or councillors and really demonstrate that she has reason to return.
I would also be tearing my hair out, I wish you luck in your next attempt.

[Dedworth]

Make an appointment to meet your MP at his/her local surgery it will have a stronger impact than writing/emailing which just get dealt with by staff & interns. Good luck

[grahamw48]

good luck benjy.

Unfortunately the good and honest citizens of this country are having to pay the price for all the toe-rags who in the past have flouted the visa rules.

All foreigners from outside the EU are now tarred with the same brush, and YOUR integrity as sponsor does not even come into the equation it seems, on the visitor visa.

Anyway, small world isn't it.

I used to live on Youlton Lane and regularly drank a beer or two down at the Bluebell in Alne.

[benjy]

it certainly seems so, and if the email doesn't generate a decent response i shall arrange for a surgery appointment!

hahaha it certainly is a small world! especially when i met a bloke from guisborough on camiguin on my first trip to phil. so are you still local grahamw48?

thank you for everyone's advice so far i appreciate it!

ben and jen

[Dedworth]

it certainly seems so, and if the email doesn't generate a decent response i shall arrange for a surgery appointment!

hahaha it certainly is a small world! especially when i met a bloke from guisborough on camiguin on my first trip to phil. so are you still local grahamw48?

thank you for everyone's advice so far i appreciate it!

ben and jen

I'd go for the appointment anyway just to show them you are not to be messed with, it's only a trip down the road and slippery as politicians are they can't avoid your glare when it's from across the table

[grahamw48]

I'm in York Ben...Rawcliffe area.

Lived in Alne when I was your age...ie, a long time ago. lol

[benjy]

not far at all then! well if you want to discuss things it would be great to do so with a like minded fellow! Regarding the blue bell your wouldn't be allowed in now! its turned into a fancy resteraunt

[Arthur Little]

Sorry your girlfriend's visit visa wasn't granted, Ben. Basically, the British authorities seem to have developed a mistrust of people from non-European nations wishing to holiday in the UK - *for fear they won't return to their own country within the visa's validity period. And, to be fair to our government, *with some justification, because - as Graham points out - the system was frequently being abused in the past.

So ... the "powers that be" needed to be 100% certain that Jen was ... well ... ... genuine (if you'll excuse the pun). That's no reflection on her as a person I hasten to add - MOST applicants for short-term tourist visas these days ARE, sadly, refused.

... and enjoy being part of our friendly, online filipino/uk community.

[benjy]

Sorry your girlfriend's visit visa wasn't granted, Ben. Basically, the British authorities seem to have developed a mistrust of people from non-European nations wishing to holiday in the UK - *for fear they won't return to their own country within the visa's validity period. And, to be fair to our government, *with some justification, because - as Graham points out - the system was frequently being abused in the past.

So ... the "powers that be" needed to be 100% certain that Jen was ... well ... ... genuine (if you'll excuse the pun). That's no reflection on her as a person I hasten to add - MOST applicants for short-term tourist visas these days ARE, sadly, refused.

... and enjoy being part of our friendly, online filipino/uk community.

Thanks Arthur, yeh i understand in the past the system has been abused... but its still a very bad one! anyway just i can only hope we can get the descion overturned....or if it comes to it it re-apply and if thats the case look like im going to phil again thank you for the welcome and help always good to talk to like minded people!

ben and jen

[RickyR]

Hi,

There is some excellent advice above. Essentially the UKBA aren't willing to just take your word for it, and they need appropriate evidence to prove your intentions and that the trip is financially viable. The response you got is very typical.

I think you're easiest option would be to reply, with the correct evidence includinlg itinerary, letter from her employer (you can make this and have them sign it), and some information detailing the financial situation. You then provide a supporting letter, referencing the evidence and how it links to the relevant immigration regulations, and also explaining why your girlfriend doesn't intend to remain in the uk at this time and why she has compelling reasons to return to the Philippines.

Good luck.

[lastlid]

I fully agree with you but why dont they let you know this ???? But if its an issue why dont they contact you before the point blank refuse 2 decent people their future!! seems like its rather hit and miss with the visa's my girlfriend has a friend who has been here on a visit visa and they said in th eapplication that her boyfriend supports her and she has no work...... which of springs to mind in bad light would be the most likely candidate to overstay the visa and become an illegal... its completly blown my mind apart especially not being able to sleep last night sighhhhhh

Consistency seems to be a bit of a problem with these ECO dudes. I sympathise.

[benjy]

fair enough if they want this info...but why don't they tell you! but hey got to see what happens with the mp still got my fingers crossed! and thanks lastlid!

[benjy]

I got a reply from my mp yesterday, she told me how sadden she was to hear of what happened anyway she has passed it onto the home secretary theresa may...... awaiting a response.

[Dedworth]

I got a reply from my mp yesterday, she told me how sadden she was to hear of what happened anyway she has passed it onto the home secretary theresa may...... awaiting a response.

Theresa May will forward the letter to her underling Damian Green - your MP has made a swift job of getting you on the roundabout

[bigmarco]

You will probably get the same as me a reply from some Nigerian working for UKBA who ignored all the concerns in the letter from my mp and just reiterated the appeal procedure..

[benjy]

Well i sent another email to her the same day as i received the letter telling her that if this was going to get brushed under the carpet and i just get fobbed off i shall be making a surgery appointment and have this out face to face, also all about article8 of the ECHR, not only has my girlfriends right been violated what about mine? im not allowed to try and build a future as some idiot ASSUMES my girlfriend won't return home. How can anyone prove even with "sufficient family ties and assets to ph" that someone would still abide by the immigration laws an not abscond??? they cant! its all a matter of trust? All i can do is hope that someone uses some common sense whilst they are sorting our situation out, its ridiculous!

[grahamw48]

Welcome to the world of discrimination mate.

[ccw71]

Hi Benjy, I was in precicely the same situation as you 6 years ago, so I know how frustrated you and Jen are both feeling. My GF (now wife) was denied a holiday visit for the same reasons even though she had pay slips and a letter from her employer approving her leave and what we thought were ALL the requirements.
We re-applied and included a whole heap of additional information addressing the ECO's reasons for refusal ( insuficient social, economic...etc... ties to the Philippines) and concerns she will not return. This included a letter from her Barangay Captain confirming she has a portion of land assigned to her, a letter from the regions Governor who has known her all her life, registration for her scooter and a covering letter to further address the point of her strong family ties here. There were other things which I forget now, but just ANYTHING we could throw at them to make the point.
The second application was succesful.
Sadly many do abuse this visa and do overstay. The ECO can only make a decission on what you tell him. I know it feels insulting at the time, but he does not know you or Jen, so the burden of proof is entirely on the two of you. Don't get disheartened. Address the issues outlined, think about what would CONVINCE YOU that Jen will return if you were deciding purely on the information on the application and re-apply.

Having been approved once, our second application two years latter was approved in two days, so things can get better. Good Luck.

[benjy]

we received an email from manila visa office yesterday...

Dear Ms xxxxx

Manila Ref: 7xxxx5

We have received an email from Mr Benjamin Davies concerning your visa application refusal decision.

Please note that the visa category, General Visitor does not attract a full right of appeal. Kindly refer to the refusal notice for your limited right of appeal.

You may re-apply anytime in the future ensuring that you have fully addressed all the reasons set out in the refusal notice. Whilst we cannot guarantee that any application would be successful, we can confirm that it would be treated on its individual merits. We would strongly recommend, however, that you refer to the UKBA website to ensure that your application is supported by the required documentary evidence, prior to submitting an application.


Yours sincerely

D Odarve

What a fob off! Not only that if we re=apply we can only submit the documents we have already as there isnt anything else we can do arghhhhhh is it just me being stupid or are the border agency workers lacking a bit of common sense ? We are still waiting to hear back fro my MP so I will ring today and chase them and make a face to face meeting with her! It's really getting my girlfriend down and its just annoying the hell out of me! any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks Ben and Jen

[GraceAdam]

Hello,

What about applying for a fiancee visa? My fiance is as young as you and he just let his dad helped with the accommodation and financial support thingy.. It is only a suggestion tho

I hope you both can get it all sorted..

Grace and Adam