Stark choice under new immigration rules: exile or family breakup

[joebloggs]

some points from the findings

Sixty-seven per cent of the applicants in our sample reported that they intend to work whilst in the UK. no surprise there, so why is the gov not taking into account that 67% intend to work !.


The majority (62%) of the sponsors in our sample had annual take-home (post-tax) earnings
of between £10,000 and £25,000. Twenty per cent of sponsors took home less than £10,000
and 16 per cent more than £25,000

Table 19: Sponsors' annual (post-tax) earnings (all countries)
Earnings Number of sponsors Per cent
Less than £5,000 36 7%
£5,000 to <£10,000 70 13%
10,000 to £<15,000 164 31%
£15,000 to <£20,000 106 20%
£20,000 to <£25,000 58 11%
£25,000 to <£30,000 30 6%
>=£30,000 55 10%
Not known 12 2%
Total 531 100%

you can see the majority of people earn less than 20k after tax.


http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publica...94?view=Binary

[lastlid]

some points from the findings

Sixty-seven per cent of the applicants in our sample reported that they intend to work whilst in the UK. no surprise there, so why is the gov not taking into account that 67% intend to work !.


The majority (62%) of the sponsors in our sample had annual take-home (post-tax) earnings
of between £10,000 and £25,000. Twenty per cent of sponsors took home less than £10,000
and 16 per cent more than £25,000

Table 19: Sponsors' annual (post-tax) earnings (all countries)
Earnings Number of sponsors Per cent
Less than £5,000 36 7%
£5,000 to <£10,000 70 13%
10,000 to £<15,000 164 31%
£15,000 to <£20,000 106 20%
£20,000 to <£25,000 58 11%
£25,000 to <£30,000 30 6%
>=£30,000 55 10%
Not known 12 2%
Total 531 100%

you can see the majority of people earn less than 20k after tax,


http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publica...94?view=Binary

I guess that intention doesn't necessarily translate into practice. My wife intended to work but for one reason or another has not been able to.

[joebloggs]

I guess that intention doesn't necessarily translate into practice. My wife intended to work but for one reason or another has not been able to.

yes but there will be people who put they didn't want to work but in fact got a job

its interesting to see from the table the 2 groups with the highest % of sponsors is
10,000 - 20,000 at 51%, yet the gov could set the minimum income to near £26k.

[lastlid]

yes but there will be people who put they didn't want to work but in fact got a job

its interesting to see from the table the 2 groups with the highest % of sponsors is
10,000 - 20,000 at 51%, yet the gov could set the minimum income to near £26k.

Yes. It just looks like the government is trying to make it impossible for all but a few.

[gWaPito]

yes but there will be people who put they didn't want to work but in fact got a job

its interesting to see from the table the 2 groups with the highest % of sponsors is
10,000 - 20,000 at 51%, yet the gov could set the minimum income to near £26k.

The figure was set at that amount because apparently thats when these benefits kick in.

Its just unfortunate the majority of the applicants annual salaries fall below that figure.

Although, it was interesting to see who the majority of applicants are.

[Arthur Little]

some points from the findings

Sixty-seven per cent of the applicants in our sample reported that they intend to work whilst in the UK. no surprise there, so why is the gov not taking into account that 67% intend to work !.


The majority (62%) of the sponsors in our sample had annual take-home (post-tax) earnings
of between £10,000 and £25,000. Twenty per cent of sponsors took home less than £10,000
and 16 per cent more than £25,000

Table 19: Sponsors' annual (post-tax) earnings (all countries)
Earnings Number of sponsors Per cent
1. Less than £5,000 36 7%
2. £5,000 to <£10,000 70 13%
3. £10,000 to £15,000 164 31%
4. £15,000 to <£20,000 106 20%
5. £20,000 to <£25,000 58 11%
6. £25,000 to <£30,000 30 6%
>=£30,000 55 10%
Not known 12 2%
Total 531 100%

's me ... Category 3 - consisting (in my case) of an Age-Related weekly State Retirement Pension, topped-up by receipt of a modest Occupational Pension, payable monthly. And I consider myself fortunate! Yet I'd be classed as being "in the red" for starters! At least as far as the proposed new Income Levels are concerned. Yet my combined income is more than adequate for my wife and I to live comfortably.

you can see the majority of people earn less than £20K after tax.

QUITE!

[joebloggs]

now this guy knows something we dont, or he's got his figures wrong..
lets hope he's right
Government to launch new crackdown on foreign prisoners

In moves set to spark a showdown with judges, Mrs May will announce plans to end the abuse of human rights laws that have allowed offenders to use “family rights” laws to escape deportation.

She will ask Parliament to tell the courts that the right to a family life is not absolute. Details of the Home Secretary’s tough new stance was first revealed by The Sunday Telegraph earlier this year.

The right to a family life is enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights. Last year nearly 200 foreign criminals successfully used this right to delay or prevent deportation.

Mrs May is also set to introduce a new “financial independence” rule next month that will oblige anyone wanting to bring a spouse from overseas to the UK to have a minimum salary of £18,600. This threshold rises if the couple have offspring, with someone applying to bring three children into the UK obliged to have an annual income of £27,200.

Although tomorrow’s announcement will be popular with her party and a large proportion of the general public, it is like to unsettle Liberal Democrats and face opposition from lawyers and judges.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...prisoners.html

[joebloggs]

The move comes as the Government is preparing to impose a new "financial independence" rule intended to curb the spouses, children and other dependants of migrants coming into the country and becoming a burden of the taxpayer.

Immigration Minister Damian Green said: "We will shortly be announcing a major overhaul of the existing family migration rules, to reduce burdens on the taxpayer, promote integration and tackle abuse. The reforms will protect the British public from foreign criminals who try to abuse human rights laws to avoid deportation. We plan to make it clear when the rights of the law abiding majority will outweigh a foreign criminal's right to family and private life."

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...#ixzz1xLPahWWs

its more than hear say, looks like on Monday we will know
since when have British kids or a British partner been a migrant in the UK ?? you would have thought that is true seeing it doesn't effect Non British Europeans living in the UK

how about this will stop up to 66% British citizens bringing their Non European partner to the Uk

[gWaPito]

The move comes as the Government is preparing to impose a new "financial independence" rule intended to curb the spouses, children and other dependants of migrants coming into the country and becoming a burden of the taxpayer.

Immigration Minister Damian Green said: "We will shortly be announcing a major overhaul of the existing family migration rules, to reduce burdens on the taxpayer, promote integration and tackle abuse. The reforms will protect the British public from foreign criminals who try to abuse human rights laws to avoid deportation. We plan to make it clear when the rights of the law abiding majority will outweigh a foreign criminal's right to family and private life."

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...#ixzz1xLPahWWs

its more than hear say, looks like on Monday we will know
since when have British kids or a British partner been a migrant in the UK ?? you would have thought that is true seeing it doesn't effect Non British Europeans living in the UK

how about this will stop up to 66% British citizens bringing their Non European partner to the Uk

Excuse me, now I dont wish to come over as a hair splitting but, this latest newspaper report differs quite alot from your initial thread heading post

I'll stick with my' hear say' opinion until we hear from the horse's mouth.

[gWaPito]

some points from the findings

Sixty-seven per cent of the applicants in our sample reported that they intend to work whilst in the UK. no surprise there, so why is the gov not taking into account that 67% intend to work !.


The majority (62%) of the sponsors in our sample had annual take-home (post-tax) earnings
of between £10,000 and £25,000. Twenty per cent of sponsors took home less than £10,000
and 16 per cent more than £25,000

Table 19: Sponsors' annual (post-tax) earnings (all countries)
Earnings Number of sponsors Per cent
Less than £5,000 36 7%
£5,000 to <£10,000 70 13%
10,000 to £<15,000 164 31%
£15,000 to <£20,000 106 20%
£20,000 to <£25,000 58 11%
£25,000 to <£30,000 30 6%
>=£30,000 55 10%
Not known 12 2%
Total 531 100%

you can see the majority of people earn less than 20k after tax.


http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publica...94?view=Binary

A survey of 531 is hardly a representive view of 50000 applicants....find a survey of at least that later figure then, we'll start seeing a truer picture.

[joebloggs]

A survey of 531 is hardly a representive view of 50000 applicants....find a survey of at least that later figure then, we'll start seeing a truer picture.

government figures and data gWapito many people earn the minimum wage and i think those figures are after tax ! not b4.

[gWaPito]

government figures and data gWapito many people earn the minimum wage and i think those figures are after tax ! not b4.

Maybe so but, 531 is hardly representive of 250000 people who apply annually...yes, many do earn minimum wages and I put it to you, many dont.

Try and find us a better survey Joe. You know it makes sense

Joe The Great British citizens aren't being affected by these immigration laws as is our European brother and sisters. We all one now Joe, I dont like it either...I know my uncles and granddads will be turning in there graves seeing how my granddads fought in the great war and uncles in the 2nd....we are only being affected when we want to bring someone in from outside the EU and that's if you fall below the minimum limit which, few will.

The woman with twins will be leaving on her free will to be with her non euro husband due to the fact she dont earn enough to bring in her husband. She and her babies are not being kicked out as you are implying.

Btw Im corresponding on the hoof so, please excuse some errors

[joebloggs]

well if the gov believe you need to earn £49,000 a year to bring your partner to the UK if you have 2 kids, then they need to raise the minimum pay rate to this level, why not, you still have the same number of mouths to feed and the same bills to pay no matter where your partner is from.

they cannot justify the figures at all, how are families with 2 kids surviving now if you need to earn £49k a year as the gov states, also if you and your partner are working i dont think your eligible for many benefits at all..

many families are surviving on a lot less, because both parents are working, and the gov have to take account of the earning potential of the Non EU partner.

[lastlid]

well if the gov believe you need to earn £49,000 a year to bring your partner to the UK if you have 2 kids, then they need to raise the minimum pay rate to this level, why not, you still have the same number of mouths to feed and the same bills to pay no matter where your partner is from.

they cannot justify the figures at all, how are families with 2 kids surviving now if you need to earn £49k a year as the gov states, also if you and your partner are working i dont think your eligible for many benefits at all..

many families are surviving on a lot less, because both parents are working, and the gov have to take account of the earning potential of the Non EU partner.

Exactly.

[gWaPito]

well if the gov believe you need to earn £49,000 a year to bring your partner to the UK if you have 2 kids, then they need to raise the minimum pay rate to this level, why not, you still have the same number of mouths to feed and the same bills to pay no matter where your partner is from.

they cannot justify the figures at all, how are families with 2 kids surviving now if you need to earn £49k a year as the gov states, also if you and your partner are working i dont think your eligible for many benefits at all..

many families are surviving on a lot less, because both parents are working, and the gov have to take account of the earning potential of the Non EU partner.

'Justify' Give them a chance to explain and justify if that's what they're actually going to do.

All we got at the moment is hearsay from that Liberal rag who would, given the power, legalise cocaine and make homosexuality compulsory.

[Iani]

All we got at the moment is hearsay from that Liberal rag who would, given the power, legalise cocaine and make homosexuality compulsory.

I'd be up for that

[dontpushme]

I bet this has something to do with the job market. I wonder if someone out there assumes that just because the UK partner earns a low salary, then the foreign partner is sure to earn a similar salary (working a job that local youths need too).

[joebloggs]

as people have already posted, the number of settlement visa's is about 50,000 a year , so if they all worked that's 50,000 less jobs for Brits and Europeans
not much when you compare it to the number of EU citizens that have taken jobs in the uk

your right in my case, only 6 months b4 i was going to apply for my misses spouse visa i was made redundant, took the first job i could find and applied for the visa, i wouldn't have meet the proposed minimum income then. my wife start training as a GP in Aug, its not to take account of your partners earning no matter how large or small , its unfair and unjust

[grahamw48]

I think 'culling' is an unfortunate word to use in this context and on this forum.

[Iani]

Totally putting aside any personal interest in this, this is not about just "immigrants", it's peoples FAMILIES.
Yes, maybe immigration needs to be tackled, however this is an insane and inhuman sector to target, and goes against a lot of my personal principles.

I am not a legal expert, I am not a government expert, BUT all logic is screaming at me that they can not do this - literally can not do it.
Just as I would like to be able to swim a mile.......but I can't do it - the government might LIKE to do this, however this throws up many legal and moral obstacles.

The fact EU members can still bring in their partners, but UK citizens won't.

The fact the income level would be a catch all level, and every single economist knows that there is a London and regional loading to most salaries.

The fact that this is going to disproportionately hit ethnic minorities. Put aside any feelings you may have for a moment towards certain minorities, this proposal is racist, enough surely for the usual pressure groups to raise eyebrows

Yes, I do have personal issues here - that cannot be escaped, but I swear that if this was not the case, this would absolutely disgust me anyway

Tell you something else, bogus marriages - this will hardly affect them. Why - because most British women (it's nearly always men trying to get in) are too sensible to take money to marry a stranger. It is nearly always women from Slovakia and other eastern European countries. Remember - doesn't affect them!

[dontpushme]

I think 'culling' is an unfortunate word to use in this context and on this forum.

Good point. Let's just say it looks like a drastic measure meant to cut the immigration rate by more than half, starting with the people whom the government considers the least likely to contribute to the UK economy.

Tell you something else, bogus marriages - this will hardly affect them. Why - because most British women (it's nearly always men trying to get in) are too sensible to take money to marry a stranger. It is nearly always women from Slovakia and other eastern European countries. Remember - doesn't affect them!

I wonder how much time and public outcry it will take before those women and their associates are dealt with properly.

[joebloggs]

what benefits thou, people keep mentioning benefits but dont name them ,,
i dont know what benefits you can get, even if your wife comes to the uk and doesn't work ,, for tax credits. if your annual income is not above one of the following 'limits', you can probably get tax credits:

if you have one child it is £26,000
if you have two children it is £32,200
if you're single without children it is £13,000
if you’re in a couple without children it is £18,000

and for some benefits the more you earn the less you get.

[lastlid]

what benefits thou, people keep mentioning benefits but dont name them ,,

Exactly my point. I think I posed the very question about 5 times in this thread. ( Child Tax Credit isnt a benefit. It is a credit back on tax already paid. )

When, at some point back in time I qualified for tax credit I / we were getting a paltry sum in tax credit but I was paying a heap out in tax and national insurance. I certainly wasnt getting any benefits. Just paying slightly less tax, thats all.

[lastlid]

Next we will be saying that a tax allowance is a benefit.

[lastlid]

Next we will be saying that a tax allowance is a benefit.

And then no one will be able to bring a foreign spouse in....

[gWaPito]

Next we will be saying that a tax allowance is a benefit.

And as ive already said at least 5 times until im now blue in the face that the powers that be deem child tax credits (not to be confused with tax relief) as public purse.

Hence, on arrival on our shores with a sack load kids, you can claim child benefits immediately for each and every one of them but, not child tax credits.

[lastlid]

And as ive already said at least 5 times until im now blue in the face that the powers that be deem child tax credits (not to be confused with tax relief) as public purse.

Well they are wrong. It isn't public purse. It is a credit against tax paid.

[gWaPito]

Well they are wrong. It isn't public purse. It is a credit against tax paid.

They are giving yousome back what you've already thrown in the pot...like playin poker, what you put into the pot is no longer yours.....the pot being, on this occasion, public purse

[yellowcloud]

If there are changes made that affect the application and conditions of FLR, ILR or Naturalisation and those changes are effective before you make an application then they will impact you.

Yes but what I mean is that so long as the rule changes are not made retrospectively then in my situation I wont be effected, and my situation is that my FIance Applied for a Fiance Visa a few days ago, UNDER the OLD RULES, so once we are married and apply for the FLR we will still be under the old rules, so long as the rule changes are not made retrospectively correct?

[lastlid]

They are giving yousome back what you've already thrown in the pot...like playin poker, what you put into the pot is no longer yours.....the pot being, on this occasion, public purse

Yes, but you cant construe that everyone who gets child tax credit is on benefits. That means that the majority of the population is on benefits, by that way of thinking.