I was just wondering if someone applying for a Spouse/Fiance Visa can be given a 320 (7a) refusal or something similar meaning they can not appeal against a decision denying them a visa or something which means they can appeal but can not win on appeal?
Normally for a refusal to be made under 320 (7A) UKBA would need positive evidence that either deception or false representations have been made, or that false documents have been submitted.
In any such cases the ECO has no choice but to refuse.
There will always be an appeal route, and in cases where an "innocent mistake" has been made a letter to the ECM requesting reconsideration of the decision often gets the initial refusal overturned.
One would hope that before such refusals get made the ECO would at least make a phone call to the applicant for further clarification.
What causes you to ask?
a spouse visa can be refused and the applicant can face a Ban from the UK if they have 'frustrated' immigration rules. thou there is no automatic ban for spouses. from what i can recall its pretty rare a spouse gets a ban from entering the UK.
I just know what the ECOs are like and get worried they will search out an innocent mistake or something we may have innocently missed out and were not even aware of and then the ECO gives us a 320 (7a).
Just wondering if that happens if we can appeal against it and possibly win.
refusals and bans under 320 7A & 7B are waived for settlement visas
Thanks for that, so suppose we had by accident missed something out or made an innocent mistake in the Fiance Visa application the ECO could give her a 320 7A & 7B or 7B and reject her application, but we could appeal? or could the ECO give her a 320 7A but issue her the Visa still?
False representations - what are they?
Is an innocent mistake, rather than a deliberate attempt to lie, a false representation? The OED defines "false" as meaning both!
Does this mean that someone who unwittingly makes an incorrect statement on a visa application form should suffer the same penalty as their counterpart who sets out to lie?
That's the basis upon which the UKBA was operating, but the Court of Appeal has now found otherwise:- (from Davies Khan)
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/773.html
also read this
http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2010/...epresentation/
and
http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2010/...tion-refusals/
Ahh thanks for that. SO the short answer is if someone submits a Spouse or Fiance visa application and accidently misses out a material fact innocently they would not be subject to a 320 7A as it would be an innocent mistake?
someone on here was recently refused a spouse visa because the lady didn't declare on the visa app she had children, and when the ECO phoned the lady, she admitted she had children but thought the question was asking if she and her partner had children. so the ECO refused her visa (not sure if it was under 320(a), but her husband asked for reconsideration as they said it was a innocent mistake. the refusal was overturned by the ECO manager and her visa was granted . the thread is on here somewhere - try a search for 'False representations'
Really, wow thats interesting. thank you. She must have been given a 320(a) for that. I have been looking for the thread, but couldnt find it???Dont suppose you know where it is. I was trying to find a situation where someone has been given a 320(a) when applying for a Spouse or Fiance visa by innocently making a mistake and have it over turned either by the ECO Manager or on Appeal.
yes it was 320(7a)
http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....econsideration.
and the good news
http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....ht=#post327912
Thank you, very very helpful.
I also looked at your link
http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2010/...epresentation/
Which is great if you accidently make a mistake BUT it doesnt seem to cover if someone accidently misses out some important information :(
As someone else mentions;
It’s a good judgment but while it requires a dishonest mens rea for false reps, it seems there is no such requirement for a failure to mention material facts which appears to remain strict liability.
innocently missing out some important information, i suppose it depends on what that information is and the reason you could have for missing it out.
from 9th of july if you make anything other than a simple mistake then the ECO might not contact you to ask for further info instead they will probably refuse your visa app.
1) I was reading this;
RFL4.6 What do I do if material facts have not been disclosed?
You must refuse the application if material facts are not disclosed. You need to show that the withheld information would have been relevant to your decision. But you cannot refuse an applicant on these grounds if you have not indicated to the applicant the kind of information that is relevant to the application. The Court of Appeal (in the case of IRACKI) has held that an applicant is not obliged to volunteer information unless he is given an indication of the kind of information which is material to the application.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/po.../rfl4/#header6
So I presume with a Finance Visa that these are the only things that are indicated for an applicant to disclose, so if there is something not on that list the ECO can not deny an application for not disclosing a material fact?
- 2 recent passport photographs and your passport - see the Photographs and passport page
- evidence of your age and your partner's age
- official evidence that your and your partner's previous marriage(s) and/or civil partnership(s) broken down permanently, if either of you has been married or in a civil partnership
- evidence that you intend to marry or register your civil partnership within a reasonable time (usually 6 months)
- evidence that you have met each other
- evidence that you intend to live together permanently after you have married or registered your civil partnership
- evidence of your English language ability - see the English language page
- evidence that you can can maintain yourselves and any dependants adequately without needing public funds - see the Maintenance (funds) page
- evidence of your accomodation
- you are both at least 18 years old on the date when you would arrive in the UK or when we would give you permission to remain;
- you both intend to marry or register a civil partnership within a reasonable time (usually 6 months);
- you both intend to live together permanently as husband and wife or civil partners after you are married or have registered your civil partnership;
- you have met each other;
- you meet our English language requirement, unless you can show that you qualify for an exemption - see the English language page;
- until you are married or have registered a civil partnership, there is somewhere for you and any dependants to live without help from public funds;
- there will, when you are married or in your civil partnership, be adequate accommodation where you and any dependants can live exclusively and without help from public funds; and
- you and any dependants can be supported without working or needing public funds, before you apply to extend your stay as the husband, wife or civil partner of a British citizen or settled person - see the Maintenance page.
have you looked at the guidance and application form for a fiancee visa and the declarations you need to sign ?
Yes I have looked at them and read them though. Just worried about other things that the ECO might think should have been disclosed.
i dont know what you are so concerned about, but if your that worried, seek legal advice, you dont want to break immigration law, as its also possible you could be charged for fraud if you do, like i said i've no idea what your problem is thou.
What material fact don't you want to disclose?So I presume with a Finance Visa that these are the only things that are indicated for an applicant to disclose, so if there is something not on that list the ECO can not deny an application for not disclosing a material fact?
i've sent u an email yellowcloud
What is the difference by the way between a 320 (7B) and a 320 (7A)? is one more difficult to argue against than the other? As I was reading about other people who got a 320 (7A) on a spouse visa and then got it over turned by an ECM but can not find anyone who had a 320 (7B) before applying for a Fiancée or Spouse Visa and then got the Fiancée or spouse visa first time or even on appeal?
Its hard to stay optimistic at the moment. I guess also that before my Fiancée and I were a couple she was planning to come to visit London with her sister, but no definite plans had been made to see me at the time as we were not a couple at the time. In fact I said "sorry London's too far for me to goto from up in he North of England if you wanted to meet up", so anyhow she was still going to visit London. So she applied for a Visit Visa and anyhow they didn't give it too her and said that she didn't have strong enough economic ties in Albania. So anyhow, later on we became a couple and I said to her to apply for a visit visa again and say you are going to visit me and that's the purpose of your visit. So she did, they refused her and gave her a 320 (7b) (d) as they said they said they think she was coming to visit the UK the first time to see me not to see London or as a general visitor, which was not true. So anyhow, we explained all of this in the Fiancée Visa application and also she explained this in her interview with the ECO as the ECO questioned her about that saying she did not think it was credible she wasn't coming to see me as her main purpose of her visit. Well anyhow, she is really really worried today the ECO will reject her because she has a 320 (7b) (d) from her previous Visit Visa Refusal . I have told her that the 320 (7b) does not apply for a Fiancée Visa which I think is true but she said that the ECO could still reject her based on her previous 320 (7B) if they ECO wanted too? Is that true? Have you ever known of someone who applied for a Fiancée or Spouse Visa who had previously been given a 320 (7B) and who was granted the Spouse or Fiancée visa without having to appeal or anyone who had to appeal and WON on appeal for a Spouse or Fiancée visa who was previously refused by the ECO on the grounds of a 320 (7b)?. I know this would give her alot of hope and hopefully cheer her up.
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