Maybe the case in your professional circles but, I beg to differ...like most of us guys on here we've been married before and in my experience there's a stark contrast.Originally Posted by CBM
You can understand why many a westerner (especially ex downtrodden husbands previously married to a British) flock to the Philippines.
Yep, to get away from the fat scruffy old hags that would be available to them here.
...and that's why I went when I was 38 !
Good posts IanOI!!
I said I was sensitive about it
15 years isn't the biggest of gaps and we are very compatible. That's all I'm saying.
Don't get me wrong here, deep down I really couldn't care less about someone else's relationship. As long as it is on a mutually equal respect of each other, and there isn't some sort of power game involved, then it's all good.............and that goes for any relationship.
Unfortunately, I can only think "as if she is a westerner", because that's my background and I can't compare to anything else.
Looks like I mis read your initial post
I fully understand and respect your point of view, now that ive taken a little time out to read again what you said here.
Best of luck with your new relationship.
I guess you wont be chewing the cud about the new romantics then..
I dare say you'll think of something else more constructive to do
Yep, to get away from the fat scruffy old hags that would be available to them here.
...and that's why I went when I was 38 !...you and Ded are a right ol double act...
We can all see Graham's point, in the ads that come up on this site often for something called mature dating uk.
The one sat on her bed with thick specs on and bizarre tattoo is especially scary!
Present ad I seem to be getting is filipenocupid. Much nicer to look at but the girls sort of have pound signs in their eyes - and the middle one is setting off my ladyboy warning system
This isn't as straight forward as it might seem. My quick response is that I have to agree with CBM. The long answer is quite complex. Are our Filipina wives genetically different to their UK counterparts? Are they emotionally different? Are they intellectually different? Aren't they simply superficially (even though starkly) different because of the circumstances they are brought up in - nurture v nature and all that.....a debate that rages on and on in psychology circles...Maybe the case in your professional circles but, I beg to differ...like most of us guys on here we've been married before and in my experience there's a stark contrast.
You can understand why many a westerner (especially ex downtrodden husbands previously married to a British) flock to the Philippines.
Maybe the case in your professional circles but, I beg to differ...like most of us guys on here we've been married before and in my experience there's a stark contrast.
You can understand why many a westerner (especially ex downtrodden husbands previously married to a British) flock to the Philippines.
I ought to explain my remark better.
I'm a westerner who has been married before - twice, in fact, so either
(a) - I am the last person who should be offering advice
or
(b) I am the ideal person, because of my wealth of experience !
Years ago, I took a job as a manager in a state owned enterprise in Beijing, in the early stages of China's "opening up", at a time when, if you were a Caucasian, children and grandmothers would come up and try to see if you were really human. People were very, very "different" indeed. But it dawned on me that the way to understand them was to assume that we are all the same, and that the important thing was to know where somebody was "coming from" if I wanted to know why they behaved as they did.
In the years since, that has struck me as one of my better ideas. It has completely stopped me from feeling scared of foreigners and of strange places. Instead, I just try to work out why people are doing what they do.
Of course, this is just a variation on the old idea of "walking a mile in the other person's shoes", but it did strke me very strongly at the time and it has helped me since, so I pass it on.
Now, getting back to the subject at hand, we know where we are "coming from" - gWaPito sums it up beautifully - so where is a Filipina who falls for an older foreigner "coming from"?
The Philippines is a very, very "macho" culture. To start with, to become a man in Filipino society, a teenager must be circumcised, without anaesthetic, without showing fear or pain. Manliness is very much a prized virtue.
The Spanish and American influences on Filipino culture have only added to this. They are both "macho" societies.
Boys are always indulged by their mothers, whilst little girls are made to help with housework and so on from a very early age and are taught to behave in a feminine, demure, way*.
This leads to some interesting complications - to quote my sister in law, the reason you must always fold a bill into your driving licence, when a traffic cop pulls you over in the Philippines, is because being a traffic cop is a "macho" job, so, to show he is "macho" enough, a traffic cop must have a wife and children and a mistress and children, but his salary is not enough for that, so he must add to it... it is your business, as wealthy car driver, to help him with a pasalubong.
We therefore have a culture in which the married man is very often tempted to stray, and this is not helped by what I think of as almost the national sport of some Filipinas, which is "romantic love" (in no other country is Valentine's day talen so seriously, and see endless trashy novels aimed at and read by women, romantic films, etc) and this leads some women to think that their idea of fun should be encouraging the men to stray..
Now, the Philippines is a poor place, and contraception (see other threads!) is not readily available, so our macho Filipino may well find that he is unable to provide for his wife and kids as well as he feels he ought to. Drink and indeed drugs are readily available - both cheap... so some men take refuge in those.
The result is that some women see Filipino men of their own age as unreliable - theyare altogether too full of testosterone - they may chase other women, they may drink or take drugs and marital abuse is all too common.
From that point of view, an older foreigner can look pretty attractive. He won't get drunk chase other women or beat you and he probably has a relatively secure source of income. Furthermore, women are treated better in western societies.
But it doesnt mean that the lady is fundamentally different because she is Asian; it means that she is making a rational choice, coming from a different place. Fundamentally, she is the same. She isn't "hard wired" to prefer older men; she just thinks that for her, an older, foreign, man may be a better option. And that is not to say that she won't fall in love with him; it just means that she is starting from a different place. Where you both end up is up to you.
* I'd say this is starting to change, amongst twentysomethings in the middle and lower middle classes, now, just as it changed in Japan, a few years back, but the process is gradual.
Here's a good summary on Nature v Nurture....the big debate is on to what degree behaviours are learned or are genetic in origin.
http://genealogy.about.com/cs/geneti...re_nurture.htm
Here's a good summary on Nature v Nurture....the big debate is on to what degree behaviours are learned or are genetic in origin.
http://genealogy.about.com/cs/geneti...re_nurture.htm
Probably the most significant part of your post. And the lions share of the reason behind the argument that we are indeed all basically the same across the globe.
Excellent post CBM.I ought to explain my remark better.
I'm a westerner who has been married before - twice, in fact, so either
(a) - I am the last person who should be offering advice
or
(b) I am the ideal person, because of my wealth of experience !
Years ago, I took a job as a manager in a state owned enterprise in Beijing, in the early stages of China's "opening up", at a time when, if you were a Caucasian, children and grandmothers would come up and try to see if you were really human. People were very, very "different" indeed. But it dawned on me that the way to understand them was to assume that we are all the same, and that the important thing was to know where somebody was "coming from" if I wanted to know why they behaved as they did.
In the years since, that has struck me as one of my better ideas. It has completely stopped me from feeling scared of foreigners and of strange places. Instead, I just try to work out why people are doing what they do.
Of course, this is just a variation on the old idea of "walking a mile in the other person's shoes", but it did strke me very strongly at the time and it has helped me since, so I pass it on.
Now, getting back to the subject at hand, we know where we are "coming from" - gWaPito sums it up beautifully - so where is a Filipina who falls for an older foreigner "coming from"?
The Philippines is a very, very "macho" culture. To start with, to become a man in Filipino society, a teenager must be circumcised, without anaesthetic, without showing fear or pain. Manliness is very much a prized virtue.
The Spanish and American influences on Filipino culture have only added to this. They are both "macho" societies.
Boys are always indulged by their mothers, whilst little girls are made to help with housework and so on from a very early age and are taught to behave in a feminine, demure, way*.
This leads to some interesting complications - to quote my sister in law, the reason you must always fold a bill into your driving licence, when a traffic cop pulls you over in the Philippines, is because being a traffic cop is a "macho" job, so, to show he is "macho" enough, a traffic cop must have a wife and children and a mistress and children, but his salary is not enough for that, so he must add to it... it is your business, as wealthy car driver, to help him with a pasalubong.
We therefore have a culture in which the married man is very often tempted to stray, and this is not helped by what I think of as almost the national sport of some Filipinas, which is "romantic love" (in no other country is Valentine's day talen so seriously, and see endless trashy novels aimed at and read by women, romantic films, etc) and this leads some women to think that their idea of fun should be encouraging the men to stray..
Now, the Philippines is a poor place, and contraception (see other threads!) is not readily available, so our macho Filipino may well find that he is unable to provide for his wife and kids as well as he feels he ought to. Drink and indeed drugs are readily available - both cheap... so some men take refuge in those.
The result is that some women see Filipino men of their own age as unreliable - theyare altogether too full of testosterone - they may chase other women, they may drink or take drugs and marital abuse is all too common.
From that point of view, an older foreigner can look pretty attractive. He won't get drunk chase other women or beat you and he probably has a relatively secure source of income. Furthermore, women are treated better in western societies.
But it doesnt mean that the lady is fundamentally different because she is Asian; it means that she is making a rational choice, coming from a different place. Fundamentally, she is the same. She isn't "hard wired" to prefer older men; she just thinks that for her, an older, foreign, man may be a better option. And that is not to say that she won't fall in love with him; it just means that she is starting from a different place. Where you both end up is up to you.
* I'd say this is starting to change, amongst twentysomethings in the middle and lower middle classes, now, just as it changed in Japan, a few years back, but the process is gradual.
I'd go along with all of that....in summary its your conclusion that we are all conditioned to live a satisfactory way of life in our own, God given environment.
The problems could possibly start, as you suggest, when taken from that environment....no gradual change like your Japanese example.
We are also included...we also adapt to new environments....whether it changes out personalities, I dont know.
So, going by your post...if you dont want to change your partner's personality etc...dont bring them to the west?
Simplistic reply CBM..im pushed for time
Btw....a reputation on its way
To a certain degree yes, given time they will surely "acclimatise" in the same way that they acclimatise to food and weather. Depending on age and a few other factors.
Thanks!Excellent post CBM.
I'd go along with all of that....in summary its your conclusion that we are all conditioned to live a satisfactory way of life in our own, God given environment.
The problems could possibly start, as you suggest, when taken from that environment....no gradual change like your Japanese example.
We are also included...we also adapt to new environments....whether it changes out personalities, I dont know.
So, going by your post...if you dont want to change your partner's personality etc...dont bring them to the west?
Simplistic reply CBM..im pushed for time
Btw....a reputation on its way
There's an old saw about "A man's tragedy is that he doesn't want his wife to change; hers is that she expects her husband to do so..."
The earlier question you posed isn't simplistic. But yes core values may well remain intact. But depends on many factors. And the older the person is the less likely they are to change. Ever read Lord of the Flies?
Mind you, in the light of CBMs last post, they were all male....
I'll go along with that analogy as well lastlid..'the older person less likely to change'
Its not looking good for the dizzy teenager
What do we know anyway....its playin the percentage game....Love isn't like that.
CBM....yes, we want our women not to change and they endeavour to change us....my mum worked on my dad for 63 years, it never worked.
A reputation to lastlid, if im permitted
I think I've gone about this the wrong way........
I'm 28, and she turns 30 in November! woops!
I always told the ex I was going to cash her in for two 18-year-olds when she reached 36.
Trouble was....she ****ed off when she was 35.
It saved you the bother Graham.
Nothing worse than looking at flowers pass there sell by
My Angeline and I ar 25 years gap, I am 49 she is 26 .. we are both very in love very perfectly suited and as if we were created for each other. She loves me dearly and devotedly, I think Filippina woman are by nature so very loving loyal and committed and have no issues with age gaps. I am blest that her ma who is 3 yrs older than me has no problem with us and we have her and whole family on both sides full blessing and freinds to. I am a very blest man indeed to be loved by such a wonderful & beautiful affectionate caring loyal young woman, who cares what people think
"Nothing ventured, nothing gained"
"It is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all" Lord Tenneson.
We have different cultures here in the uk you will find that most asian people rally round when a family member needs help. I see it everyday. But I have seen a bit of a change where the young asians grew up in this country they are becoming more westernised.Actually, where my wife comes from in the Philippines they dont abandon there loved ones into institutions...they actually care and look after them by themselves....as is the norm in the Philippines....its whats expected of the family...unlike here in the west
True.
My step-daughter and step-son, other than in appearance would not be distinguishable from their Western friends now in their cultural attitudes.
Very well said Doc Alan!
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