Drugs: let’s be softer on our youngsters

[Neu75]

I'd like to see relatively modest investment in ropes, gallows, bullets, canes etc the deterrent effect obviously works in those countries that are not blighted with illegal drugs and the accompanying crime, social and health issues

Yeah, that'll do
You are sooooo funny

[imagine]

maybe its a crazy idea, but how about having some police on the streets

whens the last time anyone on here saw a copper walking a beat ?

you cant have coppers walking around on the streets, its not safe

[lastlid]

We don’t have good information about prevalence of use and harmful effects of many illicit drugs, including MDMA ( ecstasy ), hallucinogenic drugs, inhalants, or non-medical use of benzodiazepines such as “ Valium “ and anabolic steroids, so it’s hard to make judgements about their contribution to disease burden. It does seem that “ recreational use “ of prescription drugs is increasing. What is already beyond doubt, however, are the dangers – to health and society – especially of “ Class A “ ( UK ) drugs. Also, as pointed out out by our forum member waytogo297, who has years of experience as a psychiatric nurse, cannabis use does appear to be the biggest single cause of serious mental disorders in the UK.

I understand that accurate figures aren't necessarily readily available but there is plenty of good anecdotal evidence around and imformative articles on the internet. Also, Dr McPhilipps from the Priory, in the Guardian article above, seems to be a good source of useful information as he and others like him see the addicts coming in for treatment. I have personally heard the same from a similar source in Yorkshire where the abuse of valium is known to lead to addiction as described in the Guardian newspaper. It isnt just heroin and crack cocaine that causes all of the problems. And the experts also tell us that the heroin "substitute", methadone, is also a highly addictive substance that has nasty withdrawal effects. Again, methadone is a prescribed substance that is often abused. There is a Mr Hepburn in the Alexander clinic Aberdeenshire that is a expert in the subject of methadone.

I guess the information is there but is possibly not being collated / gathered / analysed.

Looking at his website:

"Patients of The Alexander Clinic include company directors, dentists, doctors, ex-pats, farm workers, housewives, office workers, oil workers, refuse collectors, retired people, road sweepers and teachers - to name only some of those who come to us."

[Doc Alan]

I understand that accurate figures aren't necessarily readily available but there is plenty of good anecdotal evidence around. Also, Dr McPhilipps from the Priory, in the Guardian article above seems to be a good source of useful information as he and others like him see the addicts coming in for treatment.

Thank you so much lastlid for your contributions . I have always hoped that I was also a source of valuable information, after 35 years in the health service, with evidence from professional experience which is NOT anecdotal. My posts usually require several hours of work to prepare, so that they are accurate to the best of my knowledge .

[lastlid]

Thank you so much lastlid for your contributions . I have always hoped that I was also a source of valuable information, after 35 years in the health service, with evidence from professional experience which is NOT anecdotal. My posts usually require several hours of work to prepare, so that they are accurate to the best of my knowledge .

And you certainly are.

Unfortunately for me I learned an unimaginable lot on the topic(s) a few years ago, over the course of many years. I am glad to say that for me it is all in the past. Everything I learned on the sorry substances is all in my head. But nontheless based on sound observation and also discussion with the police and various medical experts on drug abuse.

[lastlid]

"Methadone for drug addicts costs the taxpayer £105m in four years"

"A government spokesman said: "We know that the annual cost of drug misuse in the wider context of total economic and social costs is estimated at £3.5billion.

"That's over £60,000 per problem drug user - a cost for the whole community. However, these costs typically decrease by tens of thousands of pounds once an individual engages in treatment to support their recovery.

"That's why we are providing a record £28.6million investment in frontline drug treatment services in 2010-11 and our view is that the overarching aim of all drug treatment services should be recovery and this is at the core of our drugs strategy.""

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/he...xpayer-1071373

[London_Manila]

I have only one thing to say, "Skunk" allegedly soft drug cannabis, now god knows how many more times stronger than the rubbish smoked by politicians and others in the 60's and 70's.
Is the largest causation of mental health issues in society today. An explosion of metal ill health has been caused to youngsters who would otherwise lead reasonable lives.
PS I was a psych nurse for thirty years, this stuff was the cause of an explosion of mental ill health amongst young people in the late 80's 90's and the present day. It literally stalled the process of community care to the revolving door standstill it is at to this day.

I am a bit sceptical on this one

I mean did the skunk cause them to have mental health issues
They could have had mental health issues anyway and smoking skunk is just a coincidence
They may have smoked cannabis at some stage in their life but this does not mean that this caused them to have mental health issues
With so many youngsters using cannabis i feel this report was flawed
Put it another way, how many people with mental health issues have consumed tea or coffee in their lifetime as well !


Also many smokers at some stage in their life (18-30) have used cannabis and i doubt that all of them ended up with mental health issues

I read the research on this and to me it looked like they were adding 2 and 2 together and making 6

[London_Manila]

The UK illegal drug market is thought to be worth between £4 billion and £6.6 billion

- Class A drug use creates around £15.4 billion in crime and health costs each year

- 99 per cent of that is caused by problematic drug use, usually involving heroin or crack cocaine

- Between a third and a half of robberies, burglaries and other thefts relate to drug use

Small when compared to to the amount of police time taken up with dealing with drunks and dealing with alcohol related incidents = fights assaults drink driving vandalism domestic disputes

Most of our town centers become "no go areas" on friday and saturday evenings/nights dues to alcohol abuse and how many policeman tied up dealing with these idiots week after week

[London_Manila]

Do you know, I believe both assertions are correct.

Need to include Crystal Meth in there too. And abused but prescribed drugs like valium.

yes good point

Different countries different drugs of choice
ice seems to be the drug of choice in Thailand and the Philippines
But ice has never really taken off here..... must be a reason for that

[London_Manila]

Valium abuse....

"Valium, the sleeping pill that gained notoriety 40 years ago as 'mother's little helper', is damaging a fresh generation of women who use it to relax and go to sleep after taking cocaine or amphetamines.
Doctors warned this weekend that they are seeing a huge increase among teenagers and women in their twenties who are unaware that the little blue pills are potentially fatal when taken with alcohol, as well as being highly addictive. Patients who try to come off the tablets suffer withdrawal effects for weeks, including hallucinations and anxiety attacks, which can be worse than the symptoms that accompany withdrawal from cocaine or ecstasy.

Valium, widely prescribed in the Sixties to women with anxiety or depression, is the brand name for diazepam, one of a class of tranquillisers and sleeping pills known as benzodiazepines. The pills have gained new popularity as they can be bought cheaply over the internet.

According to Dr Mike McPhillips, who runs the addiction centre at the Priory Hospital in Roehampton, west London, several patients bought them while travelling around south-east Asia on a gap year. 'We are seeing a lot of young women coming in with a Valium addiction, up to one in 10 patients,' he said. 'There's a culture of younger and younger women taking cocaine and if you take half a gram it is hard to sleep, so the dealer who generously sold you that drug will sell you the Valium.'"

A nasty substance and often taken as a cocktail with other drugs and or alcohol.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/ma...cohol.jorevill

Xanax = Benzodiazepines

For me on a long haul flight these are the answer, i cant sleep upright and i cant sleep on a plane without them................what am i meant to do for 12 hours twiddle my thumbs!

Consume one pill and the next you know you have arrived at your destination

Purchased on the net because most docs here wont prescribe them for travel
I have not become addicted to them
I only ever take them on long haul flights and i never even been tempted to take them at other times

Doctors in the uk will prescribe you Zopiclone/Zolpidem these are pretty useless and at best will knock you out for around 1 hour = not so great on a 12 hour flight

Sorry but when i fly i need something to knock me out for many hours and i dont do alcohol

[lastlid]

Xanax = Benzodiazepines

For me on a long haul flight these are the answer, i cant sleep upright and i cant sleep on a plane without them................what am i meant to do for 12 hours twiddle my thumbs!

Consume one pill and the next you know you have arrived at your destination

Purchased on the net because most docs here wont prescribe them for travel
I have not become addicted to them

Evidently on that kind of basis its fine. Its those that consume or have a tendency to consume several or many each and every day that become or are dependent.

[gWaPito]

not all drug taking kids are house breaking, and mugging the elderly,, who is it has that wide brush

Some of you may change your tune when one of your kids have been beaten black and blue all for the sake of his dinner money etc...all these losers need locking up...look at that story reported last week when that girl was 20 p short of her bus fare...some drug addled teenage raped and beat her beyond recognition...that scum was caged for 22 years yehey!..commonsense at last from our courts.

They should all hang Imagine...

' what am I on'....nowt Lastlid....never have, never will. Same for alcohol.

Perhaps having alcoholism and barbiturate abuse in my crazy family helped put me off those.

[joebloggs]

Some of you may change your tune when one of your kids have been beaten black and blue all for the sake of his dinner money etc...all these losers need locking up...look at that story reported last week when that girl was 20 p short of her bus fare...some drug addled teenage raped and beat her beyond recognition...that scum was caged for 22 years yehey!..commonsense at last from our courts.

They should all hang Imagine...

.

and gWaPito you may change your tune if one of your kids become addicted to drugs, after all they all have a mother and father, maybe brothers and sisters

[gWaPito]

and gWaPito you may change your tune if one of your kids become addicted to drugs, after all they all have a mother and father, maybe brothers and sisters

The last part of my last post (which you failed to quote) explained my stance on this subject.

I have been on the receiving end of teenage addicts...I know what emotional hell these assholes can put you through...no easy answers here for the onlookers but for those like myself who has seen what destruction drugs can do not only to the individual but whole families ruined....it would surely be kinder to jail them for at least there own protection.

[imagine]

you know a good lot of the time the blame is put on the drugs as an excuse for what they would have done anyway,

the same goes for alchahol

[gWaPito]

you know a good lot of the time the blame is put on the drugs as an excuse for what they would have done anyway,

the same goes for alchahol

Absolute rubbish...just my opinion...the opinion of a person who's had to live with parental (and elder brother) drug abusers

[lastlid]

you know a good lot of the time the blame is put on the drugs as an excuse for what they would have done anyway,

the same goes for alchahol

Quite a lot of truth in that. Not in all cases, of course, but definitely the case in a good percentage of cases.

Good point. If you are going to burgle a house then it helps if you take something before hand. Exactly.

[imagine]

Absolute rubbish...better sticking to your short posts

by the way i didnt provocate an offensive reply

your entitled to your Absolubte rubish opinion just as i am am entitled to my Absolubt rubish opinion,

short posts maybe, but then i don't dribble on about what i dont know about

[imagine]

Quite a lot of truth in that. Not in all cases, of course, but definitely the case in a good percentage of cases.

Good point.

looking back i can remember cases which were before the drink drive offence, when in court they would say something like,,,,, well its because of the drink your honour, like as if it was an acceptable excuse

[gWaPito]

by the way i didnt provocate an offensive reply

your entitled to your Absolubte rubish opinion just as i am am entitled to my Absolubt rubish opinion,

short posts maybe, but then i don't dribble on about what i dont know about

This is one subject I know quite alot about...through actual life experience...note latter part of # 72.

To say on a public forum that with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway is irresponsible at best.

Surely thats the mindset of an addict anyway.

I'll apologise for my reply....quite uncalled for but, this is an emotive subject especially if a great deal of your formative years have been blighted by these drug addictions by family members.

[Manila_Paul]

and gWaPito you may change your tune if one of your kids become addicted to drugs, after all they all have a mother and father, maybe brothers and sisters

You make it sound like these people come down with a nasty illness - rather than people with agency who can chose to take a drug or not. They're not victims. Drug possession is *meant* to be a crime. So I'm not sure what the point is here? Parents of criminals might be more willing to make excuses and be more sympathetic towards the actions of their children? What is new? Doesn't change the fact that all criminals should face the full weight of the law. Mine included.

[gWaPito]

Excellent post Paul...reputation on its way...good to see you have been un banned

[imagine]

This is one subject I know quite alot about...through actual life experience...note latter part of # 72.

To say on a public forum that with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway is irresponsible at best.

Surely thats the mindset of an addict anyway.

I'll apologise for my reply....quite uncalled for but, this is an emotive subject especially if a great deal of your formative years have been blighted by these drug addictions by family members.

yes you say alcoholism and barbiturate abuse in my crazy family helped put me off those.
i can see thats why you appear very single minded on this, the 2 drugs you mention do not have a good background,
when i was young i drank too much, often paraletic, but i didn't become alchaholic , nor did i commit crime, different drugs have different effects on individuals,so the drug nor the individual can be tarnished the same,

i did not say (with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway)
i said
(Quote) you know( a good lot of the time) the blame is put on the drugs as an excuse for what they would have done anyway,

please do not twist my words, you sound like a court lawyer

drugs and drink are not always the fuel to fire the crime, but in some cases may be the fuse to the powder

[imagine]

This is one subject I know quite alot about...through actual life experience...note latter part of # 72.

To say on a public forum that with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway is irresponsible at best.

Surely thats the mindset of an addict anyway.

.

no i am not an addict

[lastlid]

You make it sound like these people come down with a nasty illness - rather than people with agency who can chose to take a drug or not. They're not victims. Drug possession is *meant* to be a crime. So I'm not sure what the point is here? Parents of criminals might be more willing to make excuses and be more sympathetic towards the actions of their children? What is new? Doesn't change the fact that all criminals should face the full weight of the law. Mine included.

Agreed. But some forum members are talking about hanging people for drug abuse, regardless. And lets say capital punishment is administered for drug abuse, where do we draw the line?

If someone uses / abuses drugs but isn't a menace to society, do we then string them up, as some are suggesting?

[lastlid]

yes you say alcoholism and barbiturate abuse in my crazy family helped put me off those.
i can see thats why you appear very single minded on this, the 2 drugs you mention do not have a good background,
when i was young i drank too much, often paraletic, but i didn't become alchaholic , nor did i commit crime, different drugs have different effects on individuals,so the drug nor the individual can be tarnished the same,

i did not say (with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway)
i said
(Quote) you know( a good lot of the time) the blame is put on the drugs as an excuse for what they would have done anyway,

please do not twist my words, you sound like a court lawyer

drugs and drink are not always the fuel to fire the crime, but in some cases may be the fuse to the powder

[lastlid]

To say on a public forum that with or without drug addiction its something you would of done anyway is irresponsible at best.

I think you have misread Imagine's wording and message. Some people who would otherwise have committed an offence, indulge in drug abuse. And would have done so whether they abused drugs or not.

[imagine]

Agreed. But some forum members are talking about hanging people for drug abuse, regardless. And lets say capital punishment is administered for drug abuse, where do we draw the line?

If someone uses / abuses drugs but isn't a menace to society, do we then string them up, as some are suggesting?

good point

[joebloggs]

The last part of my last post (which you failed to quote) explained my stance on this subject.

I have been on the receiving end of teenage addicts...I know what emotional hell these assholes can put you through...no easy answers here for the onlookers but for those like myself who has seen what destruction drugs can do not only to the individual but whole families ruined....it would surely be kinder to jail them for at least there own protection.

a subject i know alot about to, i lived with a drug addict for nearly 20yrs, addicts are not the only victims so are their family.

i dont think anyone wants to become addicted to drugs, but we all have difference tolerances and for some it's easy to become addicted, and for some of those impossible to give up

[lastlid]

a subject i know alot about to, i lived with a drug addict for nearly 20yrs, addicts are not the only victims so are their family.

i dont think anyone wants to become addicted to drugs, but we all have difference tolerances and for some it's easy to become addicted, and for some of those impossible to give up

Well said. Very well said.