Scottish independence: Cameron and Salmond to set out referendum deal

[lastlid]

I wonder if the Scots will walk away with most of the rights to North Sea Oil?

"The battle lines for a vote on Scottish independence are being drawn with a referendum deal set to be agreed by the prime minister and first minister.

David Cameron and Alex Salmond are meeting in Edinburgh later to sign off on an agreement between the UK and Scottish governments.

It is expected to allow for a vote in autumn 2014 with a single Yes/No question on Scotland leaving the UK.

The deal will also see 16- and 17-year-olds included in the ballot.

The UK government is expected to grant limited powers for the Scottish Parliament to hold a legal referendum, under a mechanism called Section 30.

The Electoral Commission will play a key role advising on the wording of the question and other issues such as campaign finance.

A possible second question on greater powers has been dropped, while the Scottish government looks to have secured its preferred date.

Speaking ahead of meeting, Mr Salmond said: "The people of Scotland gave the Scottish government a clear mandate in last year's election to hold a referendum on Scotland's future in 2014.

"The agreement I expect to reach with the prime minister is one which ensures that not only is the referendum made in Scotland, but that the fundamental right of the people of Scotland to choose their own future is respected by all."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...itics-19942638

[bigmarco]

Can we not hold a Mini referendum on our forum to see how our Scottish members will be voting.

[lastlid]

Can we not hold a Mini referendum on our forum to see how our Scottish members will be voting.

Yes. I would like to see that.

Most that I have spoken to have said that they couldn't foresee Scotland agreeing to Alex's proposals. But I guess it depends a lot on the person in question.

[Arthur Little]

Hmm ... in "my" day you had to be 21 for your name to be included on the Electoral Register. Presently it's 18 ... and now Salmond seems dead keen on the of the "age of majority" being reduced still further ... I wonder why? Perhaps he sees it as a means of garnering additional support from an idealistic younger generation - long considered barely mature enough to "know their own minds" [politically] yet supposedly old enough to be legally allowed to marry.

[les_taxi]

He want's the kids to vote as he knows that one showing of "Braveheart" will convince them the English are .....!
He is a total moron and every scot I have spoken to does not want independence but he can secure lot's of yes votes from the kids

[bigmarco]

Whilst I agree and understand Salmonds motives for wanting the age to be lowered to 16. I personally have always believed that a Prime Minister can send a 16 year old to die for his country so a 16 year old should have a say in who governs his country.
Just my opinion but I would disagree with this just being a one off vote for 16 year olds.

[les_taxi]

He is just wanting to use the opportunity to win votes not really the same argument
Also the age is 17 but more often than not 18 upwards for front line although mistakes have been made in the past

[imagine]

if scotland gains indipendance, will i get ilr or deported

[lastlid]

if scotland gains indipendance, will i get ilr or deported

Possibly would end up like the Isle of Man where the ILR process is basically the same.

[Arthur Little]

every scot I have spoken to does not want independence

Les ... I'm one native Scot you haven't had the pleasure of speaking to in person, but ANOTHER whom you can be sure is TOTALLY OPPOSED to the very of my country's independence.

Rule Britania!

[Arthur Little]

Whilst I agree and understand Salmonds motives for wanting the age to be lowered to 16. I personally have always believed that a Prime Minister can send a 16 year old to die for his country so a 16 year old should have a say in who governs his country.
Just my opinion but I would disagree with this just being a one off vote for 16 year olds.

Marco ... earlier, I made mention of the curious quirk in the law that permits 16-year-olds to marry.

By the same token, I take on board your even MORE valid point about successive Governments APPEARING to allow such young people to fight and die for their country ... yet denying them the right to vote. Now, I may be wrong ... but I'd always believed no person under 18, serving in the Armed Forces, could be sent to the 'front lines'.

[Terpe]

OMG, how long will we have to endure the endless debates.
Seems the SNP is wanting a long long mass debate

I hope someone will define the meanings of 'yes' and 'no'

Seriously though, I can't see the yes vote being the majority.

I feel there's a fair share of YES and an equal share of NO. The battle will be those who would have prefered a max-devo but now have no choice. interesting times ahead.

[lastlid]

OMG, how long will we have to endure the endless debates.
Seems the SNP is wanting a long long mass debate

I hope someone will define the meanings of 'yes' and 'no'

Seriously though, I can't see the yes vote being the majority.

I feel there's a fair share of YES and an equal share of NO. The battle will be those who would have prefered a max-devo but now have no choice. interesting times ahead.

I thought it was Devo-Max?

[Terpe]

I thought it was Devo-Max?

That's the watered down version.

[lastlid]

That's the watered down version.

I thought that was the low calorie version?

[lastlid]

"SNP MSP Kenny Gibson has spent the last few weeks looking in depth at the islands round England’s coast to see how they co-exist with Westminster – and he is encouraged by what he has found out.

The Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey, Mr Gibson reckons, represent a pretty fair approximation of what “devo max” would mean in practice.

He also believes, with some justification, that using real examples within the British Isles would take the “fear of the unknown” away from the issue and make “devo max” much more acceptable to the Scottish people."

http://caledonianmercury.com/2011/11...ilemma/0025858

[lastlid]

Young Scottish voters to be offered ‘What. Ever.’ referendum option

"Teenagers in Scotland will have several new choices added to their ballot papers if plans go ahead to give 16- and-17-year-olds a vote in the forthcoming Scottish independence referendum.

While voters who are 18 and over will get a simple ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ choice, 16- and-17-year-olds will be able to choose ‘Yes, if I get a claymore and can now buy beer in the pub’, ‘The opposite of whatever my lame parents voted’ and ‘What. Ever.’

As a further enticement, 16- and-17-year olds will also be able to vote for their favourite X-Factor contestant at the ballot box.

Morag Dalglish, 16, from Perth, said: ‘I would be, like, totally in favour of voting for the principle of self-determination and the right to free ourselves from the arcane and oppressive Acts of Union? But only if District 3 get through to the next round. They’re lush.’"



http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2012/10/1...rendum-option/

[bigmarco]

Marco ... earlier, I made mention of the curious quirk in the law that permits 16-year-olds to marry.

By the same token, I take on board your even MORE valid point about successive Governments APPEARING to allow such young people to fight and die for their country ... yet denying them the right to vote. Now, I may be wrong ... but I'd always believed no person under 18, serving in the Armed Forces, could be sent to the 'front lines'.

I stand corrected Arthur. I have checked with Google and whilst I can find examples of youngsters dying in the 2 world wars I cannot find any more recent examples.
Thanks for pointing that out and a REP will be heading your way.

[les_taxi]

I stand corrected Arthur. I have checked with Google and whilst I can find examples of youngsters dying in the 2 world wars I cannot find any more recent examples.
Thanks for pointing that out and a REP will be heading your way.

Hey cheek it was me who supplied that answer
18 is the official age but 17 year olds have been used

[bigmarco]

Hey cheek it was me who supplied that answer
18 is the official age but 17 year olds have been used

Apologies Les there's rep on its way to you aswell

[nnomad]

it is interesting to read how the english members view some of the more populist aspects of the referendum,, but most of the people whom i talk to in scotland are staunch "yes" voters !!!
when we do achieve independence for our country, ( as arthur calls it, how many countries are governed by another one !!! ??? ) i would hope that all persons who are invited ( by " sponsor " ) will be welcomed into our country , but then the " sponsor " will be responsible for the actions of and the subsequent returning of said person.........

[lastlid]

it is interesting to read how the english members view some of the more populist aspects of the referendum,, but most of the people whom i talk to in scotland are staunch "yes" voters !!!
when we do achieve independence for our country, ( as arthur calls it, how many countries are governed by another one !!! ??? ) i would hope that all persons who are invited ( by " sponsor " ) will be welcomed into our country , but then the " sponsor " will be responsible for the actions of and the subsequent returning of said person.........

Not shoot on sight?

Yes. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

I am up in Aberdeen next month. I better make the most of it as I might need a visa the next time around.

[lastlid]

if scotland gains indipendance, will i get ilr or deported

Yep, you might have to apply for ILR. Life in Scotland Test. Hows your familiarity with oh flower of scotland?

[imagine]

after all the nastys uk gov has done to scotland, such as testing out pole tax on them first,

they deserve the right to their own country , im english and i would vote with them on this

[lastlid]

The formula for Scottishness

"There are five million people in Scotland. Those of voting age can have their say in the independence referendum. The 800,000 Scots in the rest of the UK cannot vote in it. But what is the essence of being Scottish?

It's not about being able to tolerate the sound of bagpipes, or preferring Irn Bru to Coca-Cola, or saying "How no?" instead of "Why not?".

Instead, it all comes down to where you bide - that is, live.

When the referendum on Scottish independence is held in the autumn of 2014, only residents of Scotland will be eligible to vote.

As a result, almost 400,000 people living north of the border but born in other parts of the UK will get to take part, while 800,000 Scots living in England, Northern Ireland and Wales will not.

"Given that Scotland has a population of just five million, 800,000 is a huge number," says David McCrone, professor of sociology at the University of Edinburgh."

Looks like the English in Scotland will get the vote, but not the Scottish in England....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20048521

[Iani]

Deary me.

Heard this debate done to death on a discussion forum I've been a member of for years, and every time it ended up a "trainwreck".

Not being a Scot, I'm not offering an opinion, however here are a few questions maybe Scots ought to be asking - perhaps - it's up to them

Why does Salmond want independence when the union has been unbelievably successful for Scotland?

Why does Salmond and his ilk seem so orgasmic about Braveheart - a movie so full of outright historical lies it would not have been beyond possibility for the UK government to have sued the moviemakers for causing social discord.

Why be fixated on something that Edward I did, at a time when it was normal and natural for countries to be formed by invading their neighbours, when perhaps he should be concentrating on things which have happened to Scotlands disadvantage since the union was formed. Couldn't be because the Union has been very good for Scotland could it - but medieval times make the Scots look more "victims" so we can paint the English as 's?

Why are the Conservative party so keen on retaining the union, when every analysis going points to if Scotland broke away, it would award the Tories rule over the rest of the union almost forever? Perhaps Scotland contributes more then they like to admit?

Just like the militant union bosses in the 80's, and the management of a company which has made losses due to bad decisions, you can be sure Salmond and his elite will have their savings and pensions tied up in ultra safe places - probably abroad. Should the Scots consider that if independence turns sour, the last to suffer will be Salmond and the first to suffer will be normal working Scots, especially at risk would be those who are dependent on exports to the EU and dependent on markets in the rest of the union.

Fact - the union works.
Fact - oil doesn't last forever, despite Salmond seeming to base everything on this.
Fact - the celtic arc of prosperity is as much of a joke as Chamberlains piece of paper.
Fact - being lauded as a country we can aspire to by Salmond seems to be the kiss of death for that country

Fact - Milliband, Cameron et al have many things to think about. They have ideas for boosting the economy, they have ideas for protecting the jobs of working Scots and English, Welsh etc, they have ideas for creating trade links, the list is endless. They have little time for considering Scottish independence.
Salmond on the other hand has little else to think about.

Another thing, something I do get, is that many if not most Scots and Welsh get p-d off because the word "British" seems to be more associated with "English"