UKBA Income Threshold - Changes to Simplify Operation

[sheldon1]

Reference my application on Monday 17th December. My wife and i submitted our application and the UKBA had not updated their website to the new system (pay online) So we could not complete. And we cannot submit again until at least Monday. So i am stuck in limbo. I still do not know if i can use my debit card or not?. My wife has tried to resolve this matter by calling them but always busy. Regarding Iani recent posts. If you have been reading my posts. You will see that i meet all the requirements.... But!! my Employer cannot confirm my yearly salary as i am payed by the hour. I think it's a 0 hours contract. So if i am refused on this basis. Then mine will be the tests case. We will see. I have monthly bank statements all above £1550 gross. And in December i will have earned £18000+ so far this year. I will have surpassed the required threshold with jan's wage. Terpe has advised me. And he cannot do anymore than that!. So i will have to apply and suck it and see!!. Damien Green is aware of my case. And so is Linda Riordan MP. Maybe that will have no influence on the ECO decision at all. I will keep you all posted on this as i go along.
Sheldon

[Iani]

Thanks Sheldon, I'm wishing you every luck on this

I know Linda, we've been corresponding as well

[sheldon1]

I am waiting to hear from Linda. She has already written to the Home Office Minister (2nd time) and we are still waiting. I just got of the phone to Linda and she says she is on to it!!

[sheldon1]

As far as i can see. Some applicants have been granted visa's with similar contracts to me. I can't find one refusal for having a 0 hours contract on any Forum's.

[Iani]

Hi

You must understand I'm on your side here, I'm not trying to cast nasturtiums. I have a similar situation to you actually.

My entire reasoning for thinking zero hours contracts - leading to an employer being not possible to quote a yearly salary is twofold.

First - on here Terpe said in post 19 that the visa people are strictly following the criteria, and as I had previously questioned the one part about a yearly salary statement being needed, I presumed this is what was meant. Could be wrong there obviously.

Secondly, I spoke to an immigration advisor, and she said that I must have in the letter from the employer, the statement that "Mr XXXXX's salary per year is £XXXXX ". Anything less than this will lead to refusal, and she said she has seen an example of such an application being refused.

She said that anything less makes it look like you are on casual labour employment.

I really find it hard to believe that the government and border agency would be so abjectly stupid to stick unbendingly to that one criteria, when there are so many types of contract, not all giving a fixed amount per year, when an explaination could take the place of a yearly salary statement from the boss.
Also when they would accept someone working on £10,000 per year, but who for the last 6 months had worked masses of overtime - which of course could well stop as soon as the application had gone in - but because that employer could state a yearly salary, it's acceptable.

I think it's a good idea for me to try this question on a different immigration advisor. I shall try find one who will talk to me (The one I have already spoken to was one of these free advice ones). Unless anyone else can also try this question - watch this space, soon as I can get someone to speak to me, I'll post the reply

[sheldon1]

Yes Iani. I understand we are all in this together. We will just have to see how my application goes. The immigration consultant you spoke to, might have quoted a refusal. But there are plenty of applicant's that have been lucky. But we do not know their situation. They will not divulge that. They all differ don't they?. Remember i have two Children? So maybe the ECO will show some compassion. Every case is different. Because i have written to my MP on 2 occasions now. I have been a nuisance. I really think that my application will go to the ECM before a refusal. But maybe i am dreaming.... I will keep you informed as i go along matey.

[Terpe]

Iani,
I going to attempt to answer your questions.

I will use your post #25 as a reference.
Please don't think I'm using this as any kind of personal attack against you. That's not my style nor my intention.
I'm just using it as an example to put over my current understanding on the points you have raised.
I just want to throw in the immigration rules as they stand now and guide those folks interested to the solutions.

Hope it's not going to be too long or convoluted. I'll try to keep it simple and in plain English.


OK here goes:-

............I've spoken today to an immigration advisor, and she is insistent that these written criteria must be followed to the letter.

Yes, that correct. All visa applications must be fully compliant with immigration rules to avoid falling for refusal.
Although caseworkers and ECO's do have discretionary freedom in specific areas, there is no discretion on the specific rule.

This means, you MUST have in your letter from your employer(s) your type of contract, how long you've worked there and what your yearly salary is.

Yes this is correct.
Part of the compliance requirement is that you must provide:-

A letter from the employer(s) who issued the wage slips at paragraph 2(a) confirming:
(i) the person's employment and gross annual salary
(ii) the length of their employment
(iii) the period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application
and (iv) the type of employment (permanent, fixed-term contract or agency).

Don't forget that part on the Financial Requirement is that you are currently in salaried employment at the date of application.
In terms of (i) gross annual salary, this can only be the salary you've been paid to date.

Also, this confirmation from your employer is largely corroborative to support the evidence submitted.
It should not contradict that evidence already used

If you cannot give a fixed yearly salary - this will cause your visa application to be rejected. Never mind if you earn half a million a year, it will be rejected....

Well yes and no.
There is no need to give a fixed yearly salary.That may not be practically possible.
You are however required to show that during the past 12 months you have met the income threshold applicable to your circumstances. Now this may be from your current or maybe others

Taking your extreme example.
You are currently employed as the Manager of Manchester Utd football club. You are currently earning £1 mill pa.
However, you are new in the job and can only show wageslips showing that during the past 12 months your earned income is £18000

So at stage 1 you are compliant. You are employed and your annual salary is at the required level
At stage 2 however you cannot comply. Because your earnings in the past 12 months are below the required level.
Better to delay the application until you can be compliant.

..So many workers in the NHS, restaurants, offshore ship workers - you can't have a visa.

I think this is not the case.
Why?

Because anyone who earns the required income threshold level should be able to comply.

Here what the immigration rules say:-

[B]Category B: Less than 6 months with current employer or variable salary

..................It can therefore be used by those who have been with their current employer for less than 6 months, or
who have been with their current employer for at least 6 months but earning a variable salary and wish to be considered in this category rather than under Category A.

Under Category B, the financial requirement must be met and evidenced in two parts:-

First Part
The applicant can count the gross annual salary at the date of application towards the financial requirement. Means their current salary.

Second Part
Second, the couple must in addition have received in the 12 months prior to the application the level of income required to meet the financial requirement applicable to them, based on:

The assessment of the financial requirement will therefore be based on:-
1 The gross annual salary from salaried employment at the date of application.
2 The actual gross income received from all salaried employment in the 12 months prior to the application.

What is salaried employed?

UKBA say this:-

Employment can be full-time or part-time.
5.3.2. Employment can be permanent, a fixed-term contract or with an agency.
5.3.3. Employment salary can be paid cash-in-hand as long as the correct tax is paid. It would also be expected that some of this salary would be paid into a bank account.
5.3.4. Where the applicant’s partner (and/or the applicant if they are in the UK with permission to work) is in salaried employment they may work overseas, subject to the couple meeting the requirement that they intend to live together permanently in the UK.
5.3.5. In respect of an equity partner, e.g. in a law firm, the income they draw from the partnership will be treated as salaried employment.
5.3.6. Where the applicant’s partner (and/or the applicant if they are in the UK with permission to work) is in receipt of maternity, paternity, adoption or sick pay, the relevant date for considering the length of employment will be the date of commencement of the maternity, paternity, adoption or sick leave, not the date of application. The relevant period for calculating income from their salaried employment will also be the period prior to the commencement of the maternity, paternity, adoption or sick pay and not the date of application. But the specified time periods for any other sources of income that are being combined will remain as set out in this guidance and in line with those not in receipt of maternity, paternity, adoption or sick pay.

What is included as income from salaried employment?

UKBA say this:-

When calculating income from salaried employment under paragraphs 12A and 13 to 16, this paragraph applies:-
(a) Basic pay, skills-based allowances, and UK location-based allowances will be counted as income provided that:
(i) They are contractual; and (ii) Where these allowances make up more than 30% of the total salary, only the amount up to 30% is counted.
(b) Overtime, commission-based pay and bonuses will be counted as income.
(c) UK and overseas travel, subsistence and accommodation allowances, and allowances relating to the cost of living overseas will not be counted as income.
(d) Gross income from employment income paid at an hourly rate will be counted on the same basis as income from salaried employment and the requirements of this Appendix for specified evidence relating to salaried employment shall apply as if references to salary were references to income from employment paid at an hourly rate.

Well it was actually a longer reply than I planned.
I'll look at it once it's posted to be sure it's saying what's in my head.
I hope it will give some positives to those folks who have slightly different income conditions to most .

But Iani, why not specifically question your immigration advisor about the conditions under Category B applications as a person with variable salary??

If you could report back the response it would certainly be of significant help in generating either further review or even a definitive forum understanding on this complex issue.

I am not an immigration advisor and admit my understanding may be skewed. But as a group let's get to the bottom of this.

[sheldon1]

Thank you Terpe. You have simplified it all once again. I just hope the ECO has your logic. Thanks

[Iani]

Yes Terpe thanks

Oh and if you knew me, you'd know its very difficult for me to take anything as a personal attack, because I'm either thick skinned or plain thick - take your pick Seriously, don't worry about potentially upsetting me one little bit - it's hard to do that.

Now you've explained that, it does make more sense. I think even mp's like the aforementioned Linda don't know this either - but she wouldn't do as it's quite complex stuff, and she has a lot on her plate at the best of times.

To be honest, I'm a little fed up of speaking to this advisor, as I'm starting to think she's not as good as she should be, however, perhaps it would be an idea if I was to try get an appointment to go though these very points, then I could report back on here.
Going for obvious reasons to be in the new year now though......unfortunately really. I'm off every other Wednesday so one of those days might be good if I can get in.

Now I wonder if in an extra covering letter, it would be an idea for anyone where there is the slightest confusion with their evidence, to cross reference the points with the exact paragraphs in the criteria required - as has already been said on here about something similar, to point out in bold their OWN RULES.
I mean, for example
Dear sirs

Please find enclosed the following items:
Council tax bill, letter from my mortgage company and copy of land registry document - proving I own 32 Acacia Avenue, as required in your criteria where you ask that the applicant will have a suitable accommodation, paragraph 150, line (b).

And so forth. (Those paragraphs made up, I'm shattered after work all day and I haven't time just now to look the real paragraph up - but it's illustrative)

Anyway, Terpe you've spent quite a bit of time preparing that post, and thanks for that. I was getting a mixture of confused, tired and plain off with what seemed yet another obstacle to hardworking taxpayers just wanting to do things the right way.

[sheldon1]

Terpe could you advise me further. I have applied under cat (a) Are you saying this should be now (b) ?

[Terpe]

Terpe could you advise me further. I have applied under cat (a) Are you saying this should be now (b) ?

No, I'm not suggesting that Sheldon.
If you meet the requirements of Category A that's fine.

Some folks have a number of issues meeting Cat A because of variable pay that results in not always having payslips in 6 months the meet the requirement. (eg 13 paydays per years or seasonal bonuses etc)
These folks with variable pay may apply under category B by providing a full 12 months evidence of meeting the threshold.

[sheldon1]

Thanks. My only problem i am dreading. Is the bit about the salary. I cannot supply that. But that would be the same in cat (B) also. The ECO will quite clearly see i meet the required threshold by my wage slips etc. But the letter about yearly salary? I have explained this in my supporting letter. My employer will not confirm it,

[Terpe]

Thanks. My only problem i am dreading. Is the bit about the salary. I cannot supply that. But that would be the same in cat (B) also. The ECO will quite clearly see i meet the required threshold by my wage slips etc. But the letter about yearly salary? I have explained this in my supporting letter. My employer will not confirm it,

Can your employer confirm your previous 12 months income?

[sheldon1]

I am supplying my p60 which April 2011/April 2012. However because i did not start my current position until May 25 2012. It obviously does not show £18600 but £15000+. Because there is a shortfall of 10 weeks. I have explained this is my supporting letter. The ECO will see that i am only £2700 from surpassing the £18600 for the period April 2012/April 2013. When i am saying Terpe is that if i applied using Jan's Bank statements instead of June/November like i am. The ECO would see on my payslip Gross to date Over £18600.+.

[Iani]

This is what I'm meaning, the letter stating gross yearly salary is.
Even a P60 doesn't show the gross yearly salary for a job - it shows what has been earned, it will show what that job paid for the last financial year....but not that jobs gross agreed salary.

If I used myself as an example. I work two jobs. One I have worked for 20 years and it is a fixed salary. The other I have worked for 6 months, it is not a fixed salary. I tend to work certain days a week, but it is not set in stone. Sometimes I am given extra days, most days I am asked to work longer. There is no way I would ever be asked to work less days, we are all needed, I could never not earn enough to take my "total earnings for the month" above the requirement, however my employer cannot say "he earns £xxx per year"

Both criteria, a and b demand that a yearly salary is given. B says that you can prove you have earned over the £18,600 in the last 12 months, however as part of that requirement, you must at the point of application be in employment which will pay you over £18,600 - and for this they want a statement from your employer of a definite yearly earning.

If course, I could be very mistaken with my interpretation of the rules, but much as I would like to be able to say I'm wrong, I have read this again and again and again - and every time cannot come to any other conclusion other than "you must have your employer declare a yearly income"

I have recently become frantic thinking I might have to wait until July, when I will have been working two jobs for over 12 months, but even then the employer can't say yearly income is. He could say yearly income was however.

Ridiculous, I meet their ing requirement, so does Sheldon.

[sheldon1]

Yes Iani I know what you are saying. But there must be some kind of loophole somewhere because how come people on contracts like me have got visa's? Unless they have got savings. But even then it still would not solve this issue with the Employer. I mean really if they refuse me. I go to the Sun newspaper next day and say! The Government told me my job that earns over £20,000 a year is not good enough go and get another one ? And where in West Yorkshire? And i have go to the Philippines leave my wife. And Bring my Children back without her. It's really crazy. But Let's see how it goes.

[Iani]

Well, the thing is no-one seems to really be saying anything definite. This advisor told me she had seen a refused one - however there might have been other reasons, and the visa people might have given the reason of not showing a yearly income along with other possibly more important reasons (One that springs to mind is not having enough relationship proof). Think of it like taking your driving test. If you make mistakes, you might not fail, but some mistakes are an instant fail. Losing control of the vehicle is an instant fail (Can be as simple as not biting the clutch and letting it roll slightly). In the statement of fail afterwards, this will be listed, also will be listed a number of minor problems, putting it into the wrong gear, use of speed. It would be wrong to say you failed your test then because you put the car into fourth from second - it was because you lost control of the vehicle, if you had only put it into fourth, you would have passed. If that makes sense.

As you say, others have had visas granted whilst on similar types of contracts, and you haven't been able to find examples of refusals due to zero hours contracts. Not saying it is - but this could be worry over nothing.

I phoned the UKBA, and of course I was told I had to contact the people in Manila - since they would be the ones making such a decision.
I e-mailed them, and got this reply -

Dear Sir
Thank you for your email.
It is recommended to provide documents as stated in the guidelines. If the applicant does not submit the document(s) as requested, the British Embassy may refuse the application.
Where the specified document(s) cannot be supplied, the British Embassy has discretion not to apply the requirement for the specified document(s) or to request alternative or additional information or documents be submitted by the applicant. We regret to inform you that we cannot pre-assess the application as we do not have the authority to do so. We cannot give you advice on how to proceed with the application, or what documents you may provide on your circumstances. If you need help with the application or advice about the UK’s immigration rules and requirements, you should seek advice from a qualified immigration adviser. In the UK these are immigration advisers regulated by the Office of the Immigration Services Commissioner (OISC – www.oisc.gov.uk ).
Sincerely,
VFS Helpline UK VAC

Now that to me is an obvious lazy copy/paste on their behalf. It should though be remembered that this was a direct reply to my querying zero hours contract and the necessity to be able to quote a yearly salary figure.

If I was not so sure that was a copy/paste, I would interpret that as a statement that they DO actually have some discretion (despite what we are told) and can either query it further with an employer, or have the power to waive that criteria, since other relevant criteria evidence had been provided.

I wasn't going to share that mail - simply because I thought it was a load of rubbish and useless to anyone, but perhaps it means more than I realised.

Hmmmmmm

[sheldon1]

Thanks Iani that was very usefull. Today Sunday we will apply and pay. And my wife will get the earliest appointment she can. I can do no more. We have been apart now for 6 years. And it has been very stressfull. I just want closure now. One way or the other.

[aiden]

Well Ive been reading this section and it seems that there are alot of points that I still need to think and know about.

Im currently in the Philippines married with wife and two kids (both who have dual citizenship - Brit and Phils). Plannning to return to the UK soon and get
a job and then apply for my wifes visa.

So am I understanding this correctly.
Is it understandable to do this. From your knowledgable position please tell me what you think?
This is the best thing that I have thought of so far.


When I come back to the UK, Im going work for 6 months and in those 6 months I must have earned (£1'550) pm (£18,600 / 12 months = £1,550 pm.
So in this case may I apply for my wifes visa in the 7th month?


Or should I work for 12 months and then apply in the 13th Month?


Do I need to earn the £18,600 annual first and then apply?

or

Is it okay to apply after 6 months. Of course I can provide a letter from my two employers stating my annual salary.


These are my intended jobs.
1. first job is full time earning about £15,000 per year
2. second job is part time earning about £5,000 per year.

Both come with a fixed annual salary with possibility of overtime.
But when I apply I would have only worked for these companys for 6 months.

SO in this case can I apply in the 7th MOnth or not?

Please help its so confusing.

thanks

[aiden]

I might be misreading but in case I'm not, you don't have to make the sum of £18,600 (depending on where you work).
If you return to the UK and you get a job that pays £18,600 or higher, you simply have to keep this job for at least 6 months,
then your wife would be able to apply for a spouse visa and join you - so in other words, you don't have to prove you earnt all £18,600,
just that you have a job that ultimately will. If working overseas, you would have to work for 12 months earning the equivalent sum AND have a
confirmed job offer awaiting your return. Hope that helps.Am I now understanding this all correctly?

[Terpe]

This could turn into a very long answer so I'll focus only on the part that I think is applicable to you.

.....you get a job that pays £18,600 or higher, you simply have to keep this job for at least 6 months,
then your wife would be able to apply for a spouse visa and join you - so in other words, you don't have to prove you earnt all £18,600,
just that you have a job that ultimately will.

Yes Aiden that's correct.

You would then apply under Category A after receipt of 6 compliant monthly payslips

Here's a summary of what UKBA state:-

With the current employer for 6 months or more

In salaried employment at the point of application and with the same employer and earning the salary level relied upon for at least the last 6 months.
Count the gross annual salary (at its lowest level in the 6 months prior to the date of application) towards the financial requirement.

Apply immediately after receipt of 6 compliant monthly payslips

Better not to worry about the other possibilities unless you have a burning desire to know.
I think it will confuse everyone.

Don't forget you can use any savings above £16000 towards any shortfall in earned income. (based on dividing such amounts by 2.5 - means savings of £25000 would equate to an earned income shortfall support of 25k-16k divided by 2.5 = £3600)

[Iani]

Hi Aiden

I am sure I am stating the glaring obvious here - but also don't forget and neglect all the other things - proof of relationship, bank statements, proof of place to live etc etc.

Good luck, and as Terpe says - don't worry about the income bit, that's covered with you