Philippine medical system sucks.

[keith britten]

I'm just experiencing the Philippine medical system, my father in law is sick in hospital, he's been there 6 days and is not showing any improvement. I'm not a qualified medical practitioner but what I see is just a money making factory. Every thing has to be paid for up front, we have to buy our own blood if we can find it or bribe someone to donate then there is no guarantee that the blood is good. I'd advise all British subjects that if they get sick buy an air ticket back to the uk, it will be a lot cheaper and you will probably live longer.

[Tawi2]

I can sense your frustration keith,hope your father-in-law recovers,like yourself I have visited relatives in Dabaw hospitals and like yourself I have paid bills,just one of those things,its their system,paradise has thorns.

[Terpe]

.... I'd advise all British subjects that if they get sick buy an air ticket back to the uk, it will be a lot cheaper and you will probably live longer.

I'm sorry to hear about the problems you're experiencing.

I've experienced exactly the same with my bro-in-law last year so I fully understand.

Concerning jumping on a plane to UK for medical treatment, there are some horror stories about that too.
Strictly speaking after 3 months away from UK your entitlement to free NHS treatment is in doubt. Even if you find a way to secure free treatment, you would have to repay all costs if you decide to return to Phils.

Up to date information about eligibility for free NHS treatment can be found in the publication Guidance On Implementing The Overseas Visitors Hospital Charging Regulations

This is highly recommended reading for all those thinking about relocating and also thinking the NHS is their back-up.

[stevewool]

i too am sorry to hear about your news, just goes to show we all need that back up in cash just for the rainy days ahead, what about this phil health package people keep saying about have they got something like that,

[stevewool]

Concerning jumping on a plane to UK for medical treatment, there are some horror stories about that too.
Strictly speaking after 3 months away from UK your entitlement to free NHS treatment is in doubt. Even if you find a way to secure free treatment, you would have to repay all costs if you decide to return to Phils.

Up to date information about eligibility for free NHS treatment can be found in the publication Guidance On Implementing The Overseas Visitors Hospital Charging Regulations

This is highly recommended reading for all those thinking about relocating and also thinking the NHS is their back-up.

90 pages Peter i shall read that another day

[Terpe]

....just goes to show we all need that back up in cash just for the rainy days ahead.....

Yep, nothing against that. Unfortunately it's just too simplistic and unstrutuctured.
How much cash? what's the cap?
I have more than a couple of friends who have returned to UK virtually penniless after spending all their savings on medical issues so the wife would end with nothing in a worst case outcome.

I'm sure we've all heard the stories of those couples where one spouse could not return to UK as ILR had lapsed and no British Citizenship.

My own view is that a multi-structured approach to healthcare needs to be considered. Probably with some pretty strict agreed guidelines on the use of cash/credit cards.

A friend of ours needed a heart operation followed by pacemaker fitted.
As I recall it cost around P1mill from begining to end.
He was told it will need to be replaced in 5 years.

I've told my wife to be sure she gets a shovel and a box

[Terpe]

90 pages Peter i shall read that another day

You need only read the first three short paragraphs:-

1.1 This guidance concerns what should happen when a person who is not ordinarily resident in the UK needs NHS treatment provided by a hospital in England. Such a person will be subject to the National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 2011, as amended (the “Charging Regulations”). A person who is not ‘ordinarily resident’ in the
UK falls within the definition of an overseas visitor (regulation 2) and may incur a charge for treatment.

1.2 ‘Ordinary residence’ means, broadly, living in the UK on a lawful, voluntary and properly settled basis for the time being. It is defined in detail at paragraphs 3.4 to 3.16. A person who is not ordinarily resident in this country at the time of treatment is not automatically entitled to NHS hospital treatment free of charge. A person who is ordinarily resident is not subjected to this charging regime.

1.3 A person does not become ordinarily resident in the UK simply by: having British nationality; holding a British passport; being registered with a GP; having an NHS number; owning property in the UK, or having paid (or currently paying) National Insurance contributions and taxes in this country. Whether a person is ordinarily resident is a question of fact, for which a number of factors are taken into account.

[stevewool]

there is no limit to what we could spend, the limit like you have said is what we can afford, who knows what the future holds for us all, but let it stay in the future for now and just try to prepare for it

[stevewool]

You need only read the first three short paragraphs:-

wow having just read quicky there is that many different ways of reading this and how its understood,i think best of all is to borrow that spade if needed from the other comment of yours

[raynaputi]

That's why Keith can't move to the Philippines, as he needs the NHS here and the cost of everything would be 2x or 3x in the Philippines.

[Michael Parnham]

This is one of the reasons I came back to the UK

[mickmyrna]

Yep, nothing against that. Unfortunately it's just too simplistic and unstrutuctured.
How much cash? what's the cap?
I have more than a couple of friends who have returned to UK virtually penniless after spending all their savings on medical issues so the wife would end with nothing in a worst case outcome.

I'm sure we've all heard the stories of those couples where one spouse could not renturn to UK as ILR had lapsed and no British Citizenship.

My own view is that a multi-structured approach to healthcare needs to be considered. Probably with some pretty strict agreed guidelines on the use of cash/credit cards.

A friend of ours needed a heart operation followed by pacemaker fitted.
As I recall it cost around P1mill from begining to end.
He was told it will need to be replaced in 5 years.

I've told my wife to be sure she gets a shovel and a box

Hi there, i was just wondering if anyone knows if a spouse who has ILR here in the UK can return back to the UK after moving back to the Philippines? I plan to retire there within the next 4 years with my wife, Myrna; we are applying for ILR later this year but we are not planning on applying for British citizenship as were going back to Cebu so soon, and i dont think its worth the extra expense. Does anyone know if she can return with me to the UK for a holiday, if so is there a time limit for her returning here? Thanks in advance for any replies! Mick :xxgrinning--

[jake]

i too am sorry to hear about your news, just goes to show we all need that back up in cash just for the rainy days ahead, what about this phil health package people keep saying about have they got something like that,

The problem with Philhealth is it will only pay a small percentage of the actual bill. You will also have to pay up front then claim the money back at a later date.

[Terpe]

Hi there, i was just wondering if anyone knows if a spouse who has ILR here in the UK can return back to the UK after moving back to the Philippines? I plan to retire there within the next 4 years with my wife, Myrna; we are applying for ILR later this year but we are not planning on applying for British citizenship as were going back to Cebu so soon, and i dont think its worth the extra expense. Does anyone know if she can return with me to the UK for a holiday, if so is there a time limit for her returning here? Thanks in advance for any replies! Mick :xxgrinning--

If she's out of UK for more than 2 years she'll lose the ILR and will not be able to return to the UK without making an application for a visa.

If you can find a way, why not get that British Citizenship and passport.
Following that route she'd need to re-acquire Philippine Citizenship.
It may be an expensive pain but there are advantages.
We don't know what's waiting for us round life's corner.

[jake]

I'm just experiencing the Philippine medical system, my father in law is sick in hospital, hes been there 6 days and is not showing any improvement. I'm not a qualified medical practitioner but what I see is just a money making factory. Every thing has to be paid for up front, we have to buy our own blood if we can find it or bribe someone to donate then there is no guarantee that the blood is good. I'd advise all British subjects that if they get sick buy an air ticket back to the uk, it will be a lot cheaper and you will probably live longer.

I can understand you frustration and hopefully he will get better. The hospitals have very little government funding and its not always their fault that things like blood, medicine etc are not readily available.
Ask your wifes family to speak to the local mayor, congressman , governor as they may help out with some of the medical costs as it will soon be election time. Sad but true.
Its not just the Philippines that has a bad medical system. A lot of countries do.
Don't knock the NHS as you guys are lucky to have such a system

[mickmyrna]

If she's out of UK for more than 2 years she'll lose the ILR and will not be able to return to the UK without making an application for a visa.

If you can find a way, why not get that British Citizenship and passport.
Following that route she'd need to re-acquire Philippine Citizenship.
It may be an expensive pain but there are advantages.
We don't know what's waiting for us round life's corner.

Thank you for your swift reply Terpe! We'll consider your suggestion.......

[grahamw48]

Definitely worth waiting for British Citizenship for your wife.

'Act in haste repent at leisure' etc.

So many of my past mistakes have been due to impatience and not properly considering alternatives and consequences.

[bigmarco]

i too am sorry to hear about your news, just goes to show we all need that back up in cash just for the rainy days ahead, what about this phil health package people keep saying about have they got something like that,

I'm not so sure that cash is the answer. Judging by our own recent experiences with my Tatay and other horror stories you hear about it doesn't matter how much money you have the knowledge and expertise doesn't appear to be as freely available as it is here.
This for me is a major stumbling block in retiring to the Philippines.

[joebloggs]

sorry to hear about your father in law, have you any idea whats wrong with him, is he in a government hospital ?

[jake]

I'm not so sure that cash is the answer. Judging by our own recent experiences with my Tatay and other horror stories you hear about it doesn't matter how much money you have the knowledge and expertise doesn't appear to be as freely available as it is here.
This for me is a major stumbling block in retiring to the Philippines.

That is not necessarily true. There are some very good doctors here in the Philippines. My kids pediatrician is much better than the deaf half blind doctor that i used to go to when i was a kid.
Cash does help as you will probably receive better service. I know that may not sound right to some of you but at the end of the day it is a business like any other.
At some point in my life i will probably need hospital treatment and it doesn't bother me that it will be in a Philippine hospital. Yes it will be private that's why we have money set aside.

[stevewool]

If she's out of UK for more than 2 years she'll lose the ILR and will not be able to return to the UK without making an application for a visa.

If you can find a way, why not get that British Citizenship and passport.
Following that route she'd need to re-acquire Philippine Citizenship.
It may be an expensive pain but there are advantages.
We don't know what's waiting for us round life's corner.

thats the way to do it

[stevewool]

I'm not so sure that cash is the answer. Judging by our own recent experiences with my Tatay and other horror stories you hear about it doesn't matter how much money you have the knowledge and expertise doesn't appear to be as freely available as it is here.
This for me is a major stumbling block in retiring to the Philippines.

its the only answer i have at this moment in time, i know i will not be here in england so umless i come into a lot of cash, the phils will be my future home and with some savings too

[mickmyrna]

Definitely worth waiting for British Citizenship for your wife.

'Act in haste repent at leisure' etc.

So many of my past mistakes have been due to impatience and not properly considering alternatives and consequences.

Thanks for your input Graham! Yes, its something to consider.....

[Tawi2]

Don't knock the NHS as you guys are lucky to have such a system

A-MEN to that,its only when you actually need medical care and you have to pay through the nose for it that people remember the good old NHS back in blighty,theres a pinay living not a million miles away from Heathrow,10-maybe 12 years ago her mum and dad got a visa to visit her(there was an ulterior motive I always thought)long story short her dad had health problems when he was here,needed heart surgery,the last time I saw her her parents had gotten a visa extension as her dad was receiving hospital treatment,free-gratis and for nothing,its the old NHS tourism,it attracted people from around the world.

[stevewool]

how long before it will be a pay as you go NHS here, something to think about

[Doc Alan]

I’m sorry to read about your father in law. You may not wish to say which hospital he is in, or what is wrong with him, if indeed a diagnosis has been made.

I’m also sorry that you see ( the hospital as ) a money-making factory.


The vast majority of healthcare workers – doctors, dentists, nurses, and others – are dedicated, and work hard, wherever they may be. All aspects of good health care are based on evidence, not opinions. There are systems to prevent unnecessary or unproven tests and treatment - because they all require payment, directly or indirectly. As in any walk of life, there may be corruption, with “ rogue “ healthcare workers – but preventing and treating illness is not, and can never be, purely a " money-making factory " .


Health care in the Philippines does – overall – compare unfavourably with that in the UK. However, it varies from high class, equivalent to the UK, to non-existent in many rural municipalities. There are relatively far fewer doctors in the Philippines, who can earn far more abroad, and more than half of Filipinos who fall ill die without ever seeing a doctor. Life expectancy, with other measures of health, is indeed less - by about a decade. Much of health spending is still “ out of pocket “ ( if it can be afforded ), although insurance schemes ( like PhilHealth ) do provide limited cover.


This is not to say authorities are doing nothing about the situation. Resources are, however, limited by “ Western “ standards. Health expenditure in the Philippines is a smaller proportion of GDP ( itself less ) than in UK. Passing the Reproductive Health Bill would be a massive step in the right direction. Improving health workers' pay would be another.


Universal health coverage, with less “ out of pocket “ spending, is recognised to be the ideal in the Philippines, as elsewhere, but is an aim which has yet to be achieved.


Most countries seek to collect and manage funding of health care through “ risk pooling “, so that the ( unpredictable ) costs of illness do not need to be met by that person alone. Paying out of pocket is still, sadly, dominant worldwide – but many countries are moving towards universal health coverage. The Philippines aims to do this through taxation, subsidies for target populations, and collecting “ voluntary premiums “ from households.


The UK NHS will continue to be largely funded through taxation and be “ free at the point of use “. Expensive reforms in England, due to take place this year, will make little obvious difference to patients. It is imperfect, varies from one area to another, and faces austerity in the next decade. “ Lifestyle choices “ – such as smoking, eating, drinking alcohol, and exercise - obviously contribute much to its cost, but the principal remains that treatment is by and large freely available ( whatever the true cost, or provider ).


The cost to the UK public for dental treatment is the result of a contract imposed by the Government on dentists, whereby they can in many cases only provide good treatment privately – what they do is still evidence-based.


Most visitors to the Philippines from the UK – and elsewhere – have no serious health problems. Comprehensive insurance – only valid if relevant precautions such as vaccinations and medications are taken – is obviously vital. The same applies if living in the Philippines. Adequate insurance would cover repatriation to the UK if necessary.


These topics have had more detailed coverage in the Health Section of the forum. I’m sure all members would wish the best for your father in law, and also Marco's father-in-law.

[Arthur Little]

Don't knock the NHS as you guys are lucky to have such a system

... we're FORTUNATE, indeed!!!

[jonnijon]

Phil Health is like anything, the more you pay every month the more you get. And the same with your SS payments.

[Arthur Little]

That's why Keith can't move to the Philippines, as he needs the NHS here and the cost of everything would be 2x or 3x in the Philippines.

Likewise! Aside from family commitments ... there's the fact that I'm diabetic to consider.

[bigmarco]

sorry to hear about your father in law, have you any idea whats wrong with him, is he in a government hospital ?

Not really Joe. His heart was enlarged and he apparently had some liver problems and lost quite a bit of weight. He was in MCU which I understand is a private hospital. When I was over he wasn't looking the best when I arrived but after we got all his meds for him he seemed to improve and actually looked a lot better when I was coming home.
It's just the whole no money no treatment that annoys you and makes you appreciate how good we have it here. Also the fact you have to pay for blood.
It seems that his problem has returned in some form this last few days so we are just waiting to hear what's happening.