Laws vs. Freedom

[uli43]

Before I met my Filipina girlfriend, I never had any idea how governement can interfere in my privat decisions. I'm really upset that I cannot invite her for some months (to Germany), and that we are forced to get married - cause that's the only way we can be together. Yes, we decided to get married, even if we only have met for one week. Cause it's true big love. But even to marry with her is incredibly hard, and my own government treats me with disrespect and mistrust. It takes at least 9 months before we can come together. That's an incredible burden. We are willing to take it, but I'm completely upset how the government tries to do everything to separate us from each other.

I understand that there are people who abuse marriage. But the fact that rights are abused is not an acceptable reason to punish people who just use their rights properly.

I always payed my taxes, went to the polls, watched news. I gave them what they deserve. But they don't pay me back with the same respect. We are treated like suspects. I guess it's time for an insurgency!

[baboyako]

well, you really know the point already.

A 'few' people abused the system, with bogus marriages and what is described as 'economic migration'.. so the government quickly realized that they needed to toughen up and impose more stringent checks and balances.. and of course messing things up for the 'ordinary, tax paying, law abiding citizen'.

In doing so they will chop of the hand that feeds them (the government), the honest hardworking citizen will find ways to avoid tax, perhaps move aboard, and leave the place in an even bigger mess (why is it so easy to import crack cocaine, but not wifes )..


Anyhow, you need to do something about it - complaining wont get you anywhere.. Tomorrow I'm applying for a job in singapore (got the job spec already, interview with the agent..).

[aromulus]

Before I met my Filipina girlfriend, I never had any idea how governement can interfere in my privat decisions. I'm really upset that I cannot invite her for some months (to Germany), and that we are forced to get married - cause that's the only way we can be together. Yes, we decided to get married, even if we only have met for one week. Cause it's true big love. But even to marry with her is incredibly hard, and my own government treats me with disrespect and mistrust. It takes at least 9 months before we can come together. That's an incredible burden. We are willing to take it, but I'm completely upset how the government tries to do everything to separate us from each other.

I understand that there are people who abuse marriage. But the fact that rights are abused is not an acceptable reason to punish people who just use their rights properly.

I always payed my taxes, went to the polls, watched news. I gave them what they deserve. But they don't pay me back with the same respect. We are treated like suspects. I guess it's time for an insurgency!

It is just a suggestion....

You are going to live and work in another EU member Country in the near future.
You probably will be able to take advantage of that Country immigration rules towards "non EEA spouses" of EEA and Swiss Nationals....
As you will asking that particular Contry's Embassy to release the visa to enter the EU, I don't see what the good old "Deutsche Ordnung" has anything to do with it....

It is something to do with the "rights of movement" of EU citizens within the community.

I just had news today, that my wife will be getting her visa for the UK, under the EU Family Permit rules....
You can do the same from Prague, or wherever you will be moving to.

If you marry in the Philippines, there is nothing that any Govenment can do to keep you apart, unless they want to be taken to the European Court for infringing your Human Rights.


Ich wuensche dir alles besten

[andypaul]

It is just a suggestion....

You are going to live and work in another EU member Country in the near future.
You probably will be able to take advantage of that Country immigration rules towards "non EEA spouses" of EEA and Swiss Nationals....
As you will asking that particular Contry's Embassy to release the visa to enter the EU, I don't see what the good old "Deutsche Ordnung" has anything to do with it....

It is something to do with the "rights of movement" of EU citizens within the community.

I just had news today, that my wife will be getting her visa for the UK, under the EU Family Permit rules....
You can do the same from Prague, or wherever you will be moving to.

If you marry in the Philippines, there is nothing that any Govenment can do to keep you apart, unless they want to be taken to the European Court for infringing your Human Rights.


Ich wuensche dir alles besten

Dom well spoted sir

[uli43]

I just read that German rules for family reunification get even tighter - now they request that the wife has to have knowledge of German language - she has to learn it before she applies for a visa - that's obviously contrary to the right of marriage ... perhaps a case for the European court ... but who has the time and energy to fight this through?

Concerning the Czech Republic, where I will live soon -- no chance. Before I apply for family reunification there, I need to have lived there for at least 15 months ...

Fact is that the laws are obviously made to PREVENT Europeans to marry woman from Philippines or other non-EU member countries.

[aromulus]

I just read that German rules for family reunification get even tighter - now they request that the wife has to have knowledge of German language - she has to learn it before she applies for a visa - that's obviously contrary to the right of marriage ... perhaps a case for the European court ... but who has the time and energy to fight this through?

Concerning the Czech Republic, where I will live soon -- no chance. Before I apply for family reunification there, I need to have lived there for at least 15 months ...

Fact is that the laws are obviously made to PREVENT Europeans to marry woman from Philippines or other non-EU member countries.

I am sorry mate, but to me it sounds as racism, pure and simple.

If you love the woman, you will be prepared to wait and fight for her.

Looks like that the German order, is not yet ready to dilute the "ueberrasse" blood with the "untermensch"....

Personally, apart from having had to wait that little longer for my wife's visa, I had no problems.
Other European Countries are far more lax, towards mixed marriages.
As long as you pay your taxes, and not scrounge off the state, you are alright.

Good luck

[andypaul]

I htink a few other countries require the applicant speaks the countries official language. My Wife met ones applying for auz and canada and had to get a certain level during her ielts exam.
I think i read on aswasa(us phill website) when it was about that holland was bringing in the same.

Sadly i can't see the EU court on the countries court saying it is unfair, as they will say its for the benefit of the applicant in everyday life.

I think many on here although would find it a pain if the UK brought it in would admit that they would like to see that everyone who entered the country spoke English. As its not unknown in my area of London for some people to have so poor english they can't communicate with English speakers even in basic situations.

What Level of german do they expect uli is it very high level or just basic conversational german? Just intrested as i would expect it to be brought in the UK very shortly.

Hopefully your Wife to be is soon with you.

[aromulus]

The best and quickest way to learn a foreign language, in my experience, is to actually live in that particular country for a while.

In the late 60ies I left Italy, just to avoid the National Service, and went to Germany to live and work.

Within 3 months there, I was able to make myself understood, after a further 7/8 months I was promoted at work.....
All in all, before I left for sunny Britain, I was often mistaken for German by the Germans.
The main reason for my success, was probably because, I seldom worked or mixed socially with other Italians.
Not that I didn't want to, it just happened that way.
My son, just had his results... "A" in German.... The way he speaks it and writes it.... Absolutely appalling.

33 years later, I nearly forgot the lot............. Dammit.

Yes the system, was also introduced in The Nederlands, a couple of years ago, but under the surface, some religious denominations seem to be exempt...

Again......... If the face fits...

[vbkelly]

That Is Rediculous Laws, As A Filipinas Its Hard To Learn The German Language Than English

[KeithD]

German is easier than French, Spanish, Geordie, etc.

[aromulus]

German is easier than French, Spanish, Geordie, etc.

I agree with you, up to a point.

I was told that my aptitude to European languages stems from the fact that the vast majority, use Latin as a base. Especially German...

Somehow, I cannot imagine a Filipino/a, being able to differentiate, in a hurry and under pressure, the various ways that they have in the German language for saying "him", "her"... "his", "hers"...
And lots of other stuff like that.

They find it hard enough in English...
I tried to explain that to my wife......

But, hey, I love her the way she is......

[uli43]

What is required now for family reunification in Germany is basic level in German. But to come to that level means that my gf needs to go from Eastern Samar either to Manila or Cebu for a language course. At least when we want to make sure that she receives that level.

That new rule has been introduced because we have many Turkish woman coming from rural areas to Germany, and a lot of them lives in Turkish quarters in Germany, without any knowledge of German.

But its ridiculous and against the fundamental right of marriage to have that requirement even BEFORE she comes here.

And it is ridiculous to have that requirement when the partner is German.

Anyway, we know that we have a rocky road before us, but as it is the way to our paradise, it doesn't really matter. I just sometimes get angry that the government robs us of many month of happiness. How can they dare?

[KeithD]

You should try Welsh

[andypaul]

What is required now for family reunification in Germany is basic level in German. But to come to that level means that my gf needs to go from Eastern Samar either to Manila or Cebu for a language course. At least when we want to make sure that she receives that level.

That new rule has been introduced because we have many Turkish woman coming from rural areas to Germany, and a lot of them lives in Turkish quarters in Germany, without any knowledge of German.

But its ridiculous and against the fundamental right of marriage to have that requirement even BEFORE she comes here.

And it is ridiculous to have that requirement when the partner is German.

Anyway, we know that we have a rocky road before us, but as it is the way to our paradise, it doesn't really matter. I just sometimes get angry that the government robs us of many month of happiness. How can they dare?

Many of us have had obstcales which seemed impoosible but somehow they get sorted and im sure you two will.

Im sure you both talking both text and speech will help her greatly if in german and isn't there a german channel on some of the cable channel companies? Im sure i saw it last time i was there but not sure if all areas have it.

Although of course the wife had her schooling which helped we found plenty of books, mp3 and computer software which helped with her english (big difference as you know between philglish and english)
Although im sure she may need courses later im sure she can get a head start

Taking a detached view i can see the logic of ensuring all applicants proving they can speak the nations official lanuage.

A program today had a man who before the para medics could provide medical care had to contact a interpretor as the man spoke such poor english ( his house was burgarled so was not a tourist)

In the UK translation services are diverting money from core services wheter it be the NHS, or printing books, leaflets in about 9 seperate languages in my area and the council provding helplines in all the same langages as well. Im sure taxes could be slighty lower or services slighty better if the money not required for these services which would benefit many not the few.

I know you will both beat it and soon be togther

[uli43]

Many thanks, Andy, yes, I have no doubt, we will overcome the obstacles. It just looks like a huge wall, when you start. But we will go step by step.

Yes there is "Deutsche Welle" TV in Phils. We also already bought a language course, on CD, she is working hard on it. And there are other ways. She will also try to find someone speaking German in her area.

Nevertheless, there is a risk in doing it on your own.

Official language courses - "Goethe-Institut" in Manila - take 15 weeks and cost between 4,000 and 6,000 php.

I still cannot accept that our laws put these obstacles in our way.

In practice, this comes close to a denial of the right to marry the person you want to marry. It's a kind of interference of the government in private life which is unacceptable in liberal societies.

[andypaul]

Many thanks, Andy, yes, I have no doubt, we will overcome the obstacles. It just looks like a huge wall, when you start. But we will go step by step.

Yes there is "Deutsche Welle" TV in Phils. We also already bought a language course, on CD, she is working hard on it. And there are other ways. She will also try to find someone speaking German in her area.

Nevertheless, there is a risk in doing it on your own.

Official language courses - "Goethe-Institut" in Manila - take 15 weeks and cost between 4,000 and 6,000 php.

I still cannot accept that our laws put these obstacles in our way.

In practice, this comes close to a denial of the right to marry the person you want to marry. It's a kind of interference of the government in private life which is unacceptable in liberal societies.

Out of intrest how many germans (i know you dont know an exact figure) and fillpinas meet up?
As in the UK its quite common to see brits and phills about especially in london, was in Ealing broadway this afternoon and every second couple seemed to be brit/phill and loads of Phills i presume there due to the Hospital and its just a few stops from Earls court.

Also the basic level of German required from what you can see what does that require learning? Enough to hold a basic conversation or a little bit more? ie lots of grammar? Also is it speaking, reading, writing or listening?
If you have a link that may be easier, sorry for all the questions

As i mentioned before i can see this possiibly coming in to act in the UK as both major parties will want to look tough on imgration and visas etc. Mr brown how new PM has had as a guest your Chancellor over and i think i saw her shoot past me the other day in Mayfair if she is still in the UK in a nice Beamer with a huge police escort.

I have mentioned on here before my wife took an English compentcy exam before she arrived which helped her a great deal once here both in skills learned and as a qualfication for when applying for Jobs.

It will not cost the goverment anything to implement as English exams already exist and they will just ask to see prove of the certificate like they do with the test. Already Medical staff and students have to take the exams to prove what level their english is at.