Can the spouse an EEA cititzen visit UK without a visa?

[johncar54]

(Sorry if this have been covered before. I did search but could not find any trace).

I am UK national but since Oct 2010 I have also held an Irish Passport.

I see that as an Irish National (EEA citizen) it appears I can take my Filipino wife to UK without a visa.

She has had permanent Residencia status in Spain since 2006.

I should be grateful to hear from anyone in a similar capacity who has taken, or tried to take , their spouse to UK.

We want to be able to make family visits and travel (transit) between, say LGW and LHR without having to go to all the problem associated with obtaining a visa.

Thanks in anticipation.

John

[J&G]

Hi John,

My understanding of your situation is that there is a specific law stating that if you are dual UK-Irish, then you can't actually claim yourself for the EEA rules, but have to abide by normal UK rules for all things immigration. (Though others, feel free to correct me if this isn't actually the case!)
So, you'd probably have to obtain a visa, though hopefully it's not too difficult since she already has permanent residence in Spain (in fact, that might be good enough for her to be considered a free-moving European? Maybe someone else can clarify on that).

J&G

[johncar54]

J & G


Thanks for your input.

I think this may be what you were referring to, that was why I showed that I had the Irish Nationality since Oct 2010

EUN2.16 Can family members of dual British / Irish nationals qualify for an EEA family permit?

Until 16 July 2012 persons who held British citizenship and who were also nationals of another EEA member state could rely on that EEA nationality to benefit from the terms of the Directive. This was because Regulation 2 of the 2006 Regulations did not preclude such dual national British citizens from benefitting from free right movements.

The definition of EEA national in Regulation 2 was amended on 16 July 2012 to preclude dual British citizens/EEA nationals from benefitting from the Directive and therefore also to preclude their family members from relying upon free movement rights.

[J&G]

Hi John,

Yes... but the law that you just quoted does not say that it is ok for you, since your Irish citizenship is from 2010. It says that, since 2012, no British/EU dual is allowed to benefit anymore. This includes you! This law doesn't distinguish when you received your dual citizenship - it just says that 2012 is when this amendment was passed.

J & G

[Terpe]

(Sorry if this have been covered before. I did search but could not find any trace).

I am UK national but since Oct 2010 I have also held an Irish Passport.

I see that as an Irish National (EEA citizen) it appears I can take my Filipino wife to UK without a visa.

She has had permanent Residencia status in Spain since 2006.

I should be grateful to hear from anyone in a similar capacity who has taken, or tried to take , their spouse to UK.

We want to be able to make family visits and travel (transit) between, say LGW and LHR without having to go to all the problem associated with obtaining a visa.

Thanks in anticipation.

John

John,

To some extent the best answer depends on how you view the UK's position to EU Regulations.
Damian Green has expressed his concern about the validity of certain Residence cards .

When travelling together it is not compulsory for non-EEA family members of EEA nationals to obtain either Visa or EEA family permit before travelling to the UK, and UK Border Agency officers will consider any evidence presented by passengers arriving at the UK border that they are entitled to be admitted as a family member of an EEA national in accordance with Regulation 11.


Here is the regulation.

Right of admission to the United Kingdom

11.—(1) An EEA national must be admitted to the United Kingdom if he produces on arrival a valid national identity card or passport issued by an EEA State.

(2) A person who is not an EEA national must be admitted to the United Kingdom if he is a family member of an EEA national, a family member who has retained the right of residence or a person with a permanent right of residence under regulation 15 and produces on arrival—

(a)a valid passport; and
(b)an EEA family permit, a residence card or a permanent residence card.

(3) An immigration officer may not place a stamp in the passport of a person admitted to the United Kingdom under this regulation who is not an EEA national if the person produces a residence card or permanent residence card.

(4) Before an immigration officer refuses admission to the United Kingdom to a person under this regulation because the person does not produce on arrival a document mentioned in paragraph (1) or (2), the immigration officer must give the person every reasonable opportunity to obtain the document or have it brought to him within a reasonable period of time or to prove by other means that he is—

(a)an EEA national;
(b)a family member of an EEA national with a right to accompany that national or join him in the United Kingdom; or
(c)a family member who has retained the right of residence or a person with a permanent right of residence under regulation 15.

Quite honestly, I can see no reason in your case as a visitor to go through the process of securing a Family Permit.
I would however advise that you and your wife take all relevant documentation to prove entitlement in accordance regulation 11
(eg Marriage certificate, passports, residence cards, any other)

Hope this helps.
In principle it makes no difference which EEA National passport you present.

[johncar54]

Thanks guys.

If I give it a go, I will not take my UK passport, so I will be Irish !

I really would like to get the experience of someone who has done it.

[Terpe]

Thanks guys.

If I give it a go, I will not take my UK passport, so I will be Irish !

I really would like to get the experience of someone who has done it.

John I have known plenty of folks who have done it many times and will do it again.
That is the legal regulation. Period.

Sorry to have intervened, I'll be sure to read and comply more carefully with your requirements next time.
Have a nice visit.

[johncar54]

Terpe,
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

I am very grateful for your input and always find your views most useful.

I am a bit wary about arriving in the UK and then finding that my wife is not allowed to enter. That would of course cause real problems.

[johncar54]

THis is an email which is sent to Immigration Gibraltar:-

I am an Irish national resident in Spain.

My wife is a Filipino National.

We live together in Spain where my wife has permanent residence status. (since 2006)

If we wish to visit Gibraltar together, does my wife need a visa ?

Or is she an EEA family member and thus exempt ?



This was the reply:-

Dear Sir

If your wife’s resident card states that she is a family member of an EEA national she is exempt from normal visa requirements and may enter if accompanied by yourself. If her card does not state this you can either apply to have it changed or apply for an EEA Family Permit from the British Embassy in Madrid which is free of charge.

[johncar54]

In reply to the info from the Immigration service in Gibraltar, I sent them the info which is on my wife's Residencia card (Aspectos laborales o motivo de concesión familiar ciudadano de la unión permanente) and they confirmed she can visit.

I am not sure how many people this will assist.


PS
I was born in UK but my mother was born in Northern Ireland.

The Irish government acknowledge that any person born in the island or Ireland is Irish.

If one has a parent who is 'acknowledged' as Irish, then they too have a right to Irish nationality. The process was very simple, the staff at the Irish consulate very helpful and friendly and the telephone number was normal rate charge (very different from any British consulate I have dealt with). Last year PP’s were free for those over 65 years.

Both UK and Ireland have no problems with dual nationality status.

[johncar54]

Having had another look at the regulations which permit a dependant of an EEA citizen to visit UK.

Can anyone tell me what would be the minimum period of employment that would satisfy:-

I]If the EEA national is a British citizen, you must provide evidence that: they have been working or are self-employed in another EEA member state;[/I]

I assume that 'working' would not include voluntary work. I have been a voluntary translator with the National Police for more than 14 years.

Anyone any ideas ?

Thanks John

[joebloggs]

have you read this john ?

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies...vement_low.pdf

[johncar54]

Joe thanks for your reply, but I have looked through the web pages which you identified but I cannot see where it helps with my question.

I would be grateful if you would tell which page would help me

Thanks

John

[johncar54]

We went to Gibraltar today driving in.

The woman immigration officer looked carefully at my wife's passport and her Residencia Card, although did not appear to check my Irish Passport. She spoke to another officer and then waved us through the border.

So it works.

[johncar54]

If I renounce my British Nationality. My wife and I can of course travel to UK, Gib etc. without me having to pretend I am not British.


Has anyone here renounced their British nationality?

I am wondering what problems I might later experience, or any ideas please ?

Thanks
John

[johncar54]

Has anyone here renounced their British nationality?

My Filipino wife's application for Spanish nationality was, after 4 years, refused this morning. So my reason for renouncing my British Nationality is more important now.

Would love to hear from someone who has done it before I take the plunge

Thanks
John

[johncar54]

Would love to hear from someone who has done it before I take the plunge

Thanks
John

[johncar54]

(Sorry, but I am just bringing this question forward again, in the hope that I can get a bit more info)

Has anyone here renounced their British nationality?

Or does anyone know any reason why I should not renounce my British Nationality

Thanks

[mike1]

This is one I can not figure out, myself been Irish, the wife was able to travel with me to Ireland visa free when she had her 5 yr resident card,now that she has permanent residence here in uk she must apply for a visa if she comes with me because the permanent residence card does not have the magic words - "family member of an EEA national"

[johncar54]

Hi Mike,
I am sorry but I do not know about the Irish regulations other than the Irish have been a lot more helpful to me than the UK Consulate / Border control etc have ever been.

My wife's friend, a Filipino, has residence in Spain and she and her husband travel to Ireland quite often but I believe she has always had a visa, which is issued free and by post I believe.

Hopefully Terpe will see your post. I am sure he will have some good advice for you.

[mike1]

Hi Mike,
I am sorry but I do not know about the Irish regulations other than the Irish have been a lot more helpful to me than the UK Consulate / Border control etc have ever been.

My wife's friend, a Filipino, has residence in Spain and she and her husband travel to Ireland quite often but I believe she has always had a visa, which is issued free and by post I believe.

Hopefully Terpe will see your post. I am sure he will have some good advice for you.

The point I was trying to make was that Permanent Residence must carry alot more weight than the resident card but you need a visa to travel on it ,where as the resident card been only
next best yet you can travel visa free , just seems strange

[johncar54]

(Sorry, but I am just bringing this question forward again, in the hope that I can get a bit more info)

Has anyone here renounced their British nationality?

Or does anyone know any reason why I should not renounce my British Nationality

Thanks

PS My wife and I visited Gibraltar again last week. The immigration officer on checking my wife's residencia card and seeing my name and NIE on it (official ID number for Spain) asked me to prove that I was the person named. I produced an expired Spanish Residence card. However, on later checking I saw that it showed I had British nationality, as did my Spanish D/L, Spanish medical card and every other 'ID', thus if the officer had been 'on the ball' my wife would have been refused entry (as I had British, as well as Irish nationality).

This brings me closer to renouncing my British Nationality.

Had we been in UK, say at LHR intending to transit to LGW then she would have been refused entry if they had noticed my status.

I really would like to chat with someone who has renounced their British Nationality, to ask if they later discovered any draw backs.

Thanks
John

[johncar54]

Does anyone (Therpe maybe) know if there has been any interpretation changes to the conditions for the spouse of a British national to visit UK ?

(I am very close to renouncing my British Nationality, so I will be just Irish)

Thanks
John

[johncar54]

Just an up-date-

Re taking my Filipino wife to UK with just her Spanish residencia card and her Filipino Passport:_

I copy an email exchange with the Immigration Service in Gibraltar.

Reply from:
Austin Viagas
Executive Officer
Royal Gibraltar Police
Immigration Section

18th October 2013

Dear Sir

As far as I am aware this can be done throughout the EU, however, having said this, I can only officially advise on immigration matters relating to Gibraltar.

Kind Regards


Austin Viagas | Executive Officer | Royal Gibraltar Police | Immigration Section


-----Original Message-----
From: Sent: 13 November 2013 14:05
To: Austin Viagas
Subject: Re: entry to Gibraltar

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it.

…………………. I understand the rules of entry to Gibraltar are the same as those in UK. If that is so, do you know if I could take my wife to UK just as you have said with regards to Gibraltar ?

Thank you,




-----Original Message-----
From: Austin Viagas
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 2:38 PM
Subject: RE: entry to Gibraltar

Dear Sir

Thank you for your enquiry. Your wife may enter Gibraltar if accompanied by yourself with her Spanish residency card which should state that she is a family member of an EU National.

Kind Regards


Austin Viagas
Executive Officer
Immigration Department
Royal Gibraltar Police



-----Original Message-----
Sent: 29 September 2013 09:42
To: Austin Viagas
Subject: entry to Gibraltar

I am a British national living in Spain with my non EU wife. She has permanent Resident Status.

I understand that if I have worked in Europe (outside UK ) my wife can accompany me to visit Gibraltar without requiring a visa (Surinder Singh ? )

I have been a voluntary worker with the National Police, for 15 years and for a while with the Guardia Civil, although of course without payment.

I have a an official ID issued by the National Police showing that I am a 'Colablrador-Interprete'

Does that permit me to take my wife with me to visit Gibraltar ?


Thank you.

[johncar54]

Following the ‘good news’ from Gibraltar, I contacted British Airways to ask if they would check-in my wife if we arrived at their counter using the ‘Suringer Singh route’.

I have had several replies from BA all saying that it is not a matter for BA and that I should contact Immigration Service.

I am persisting in my, now complaint against BA, for not answering my question, which of course is, not what paperwork would my wife need to travel, but would BA check her in ?

I would appreciate any information from anyone who has used the ‘Suringer Singh Route’.

[johncar54]

I have now finally managed to get BA to answer my specific question whether they will permit a passenger to fly using the ‘Suringer Singh Route’.

As you will see they have clearly said no and, in effect, that no other airline would do so either.

From that it would appear that the route is not available.

I again would appreciate any comments and in particular to hear from anyone who has successfully used the route.

Thanks

John,

Copy email:-

From: British Airways Customer Relations
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 4:42 PM
To: xxxxxxxx


Dear Mr xxxx

Thank you for your email.

We are sorry you remain unhappy with our response.
British Airways can only follow offical rules published by the UK government. As per these instructions passenger with a Philippines passport need a Visa. The copy of information provided in my last email is the official information provided to airlines through the booking system which we will have to follow. Therefore British Airways will not be able to check in your wife without the required documents.

I regret having to disappoint you and thank you for following this up with us.

Best regards
Tina Sengstock

British Airways Customer Relations

[johncar54]

I again would appreciate any comments and in particular to hear from anyone who has successfully used the (Suringer Singh) route.

Thanks

John,

[Terpe]

I again would appreciate any comments and in particular to hear from anyone who has successfully used the (Suringer Singh) route.

Thanks

John,

John, there's a very interesting discussion currently in progress under this thread

I think it might be helpful for you.....

[johncar54]

Thanks Terpe, I will go and read it.

Best regards John