Doctors Refuse to aid detection of illegals and health tourists

[Dedworth]

BMA Press Release

Doctors will not become immigration agents, deciding if patients are eligible for NHS care, medics have declared.

Medical professionals at the BMA annual representative meeting in Edinburgh expressed their fury at government suggestions that doctors should check the eligibility of non-UK patients seeking treatment.

BMA GPs committee deputy chair Richard Vautrey said: ‘Doctors are many things. They must not become immigration officers and border guards.’

Dr Vautrey said GPs had become used to being blamed by the government for the problems facing emergency medicine and other issues in the NHS.

‘The focus has turned to the crime of GPs treating patients in need, GPs treating the asylum seeker or the refugee, GPs treating the vulnerable and those who need our care,’ he said.

‘We are told large numbers of immigrants are coming to the UK with the sole purpose of abusing our healthcare [system]. We are told that something must be done – and GPs must do it.’

Dr Vautrey said the plans were ‘unworkable’ in general practice.

‘How are we supposed to respond to those patients that need immediate and necessary care? Will I be expected to leave them on the practice doorstep to fend for themselves?’ he asked the meeting.

Dr Vautrey added that he had excellent practice staff but they could not be expected to check patients’ visa documentation at reception.

BMA international committee chair Terry John said he would welcome the support of the ARM in strengthening the association’s opposition to doctors becoming agents of the UK Border Agency or its successor.

http://bma.org.uk/news-views-analysi...infuriates-gps

"Dr Vautrey added that he had excellent practice staff but they could not be expected to check patients’ visa documentation at reception" Why the not ???

[hawk]

that because there going to loss money from treating them

[bigmarco]

Perhaps if GP's were told that they were not going to be paid for patients who had not proved their right to be here then they might adopt a different attitude.

[grahamw48]

So, they are prepared to do nothing to help prevent people from stealing free health treatment ?

I think it's time these arrogant so and so's got down from their high horses and began to play a full part in the society that pays their wages.

[Terpe]

I don't think it's too much to have a procedure where passport and valid visa are used in the GP registration process.
I don't think there needs to be any in depth validy investigation. UKBA should have an easy to use updated computer based system if they want that.

I remember they gave my wife a really hard time when she tried to register not long after UK arrival.


Most emergency treatments at hospital is freely available to all who need it.

[joebloggs]

employers have to check people have the right to work, so i don't see why the receptionist cant check people have a right to NHS treatment

[Michael Parnham]

employers have to check people have the right to work, so i don't see why the receptionist cant check people have a right to NHS treatment

When Maritess arrived here we registered at Charles Clifford Dental Hospital and the receptionist was very thorough indeed, so some staff do there job properly if not all of them!

[Arthur Little]

BMA Press Release

"Dr Vautrey added that he had excellent practice staff but they could not be expected to check patients’ visa documentation at reception"

Quite rightly so!

Why the not ???

Receptionists at GPs' *surgeries are *there to check-in patient appointments ... they're NOT doctors. NOR are they employed
to decide who NEEDS - and/or is entitled to receive treatment and who DOESN'T or ISN'T - ... these are solely doctors' responsibilities.

Doctors are - or OUGHT to be - caring professionals ... whose duty it is, to FIRST AND FOREMOST attend the sick and infirm, treating **ALL patients equally in accordance with their needs
... regardless of **their [the patients] ethnic origins/immigration status.

Moreover, the ''Hippocratic Oath' - which all new entrants to the profession have to sign before practising medicine - decrees it is incumbent upon medically~qualified Healthcare staff at ALL levels to ensure that patient confidentiality is FULLY maintained at ALL times throughout patient/doctor consultations. Meaning, in turn, that the latters' Contracts of Employment do NOT, ANYWHERE, contain a clause requiring them to also act as government spies!!

[Doc Alan]

I am neither a GP nor a member of the BMA. It has a long history of disputes with the Government – overwhelmingly opposing creation of the NHS in 1948 - and declaring “ no confidence “ in Health Secretaries, including the latest ( Jeremy Hunt ).

Of course GPs – or more likely their practice staff – could do more to check patients’ visa documentation at reception. Practice staff are not entitled to ask for clinical details.



Hopefully I am not included – in members’ eyes - among the " arrogant so and so’s " of the minority of GPs who actually have the time to attend and speak at BMA meetings.


Most doctors are not just motivated by greed but also by compassion and a desire to treat the sick. They are guided by the Hippocratic Oath, as Arthur has reminded us, and also by GMC good practice guidelines ( imperfect as they may be ). They already have many bureaucratic hoops to jump through. Responsibility for eligibility for treatment cannot rest just with doctors or their staff.


Our NHS faces challenges – resources are limited. It will have to define what is “ core “ ( taxpayer funded ) and what requires personal insurance. The system does needs to change, but compassion will always be needed.


God help us if ever doctors in this country - whether General Practice OR hospital - are forced down the route of refusing treatment EITHER if an immigrant doesn’t have a visa … OR if a future NHS requires proof of the required level of insurance, as happens in countries such as the Philippines. There, ill people are treated if they can afford it, or may die without even seeing a doctor ( more than half of the population ).


As with my other threads, I went to great trouble to post on Health Tourism two weeks ago. The ONE response was from a moderator who is also a personal friend. " Prostate Cancer " did better - two responses. BOTH issues affect the Philippines AND the UK.


http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....One-Direction-!


Here is part of my original thread :-
• Everyone in the UK – regardless of immigration or residency status – is entitled to free care in Accident and Emergency, treatment for sexually-transmitted infections, and conditions such as TB and malaria. NHS staff will treat anyone whose condition is deemed life-threatening or urgent, including women giving birth. “ Walk In Clinics “ are also free to all.


It’s not just in the interest of compassion and fulfilling the Hippocratic Oath that patients are treated. It’s also enlightened self interest – protecting our own taxpaying population from imported infectious diseases.


Nobody can be forced to read my posts, nor am I under any obligation to continue contributing. It is after all, not primarily a medical forum. I’m grateful to my loyal supporters.

[grahamw48]

[bigmarco]

I fully accept that Doctors are there solely to treat patients and should not be required to interrogate those patients. However the modern day surgeries have plenty of staff and in my wifes case she was asked to produce her passport and visa with proof of address. These are simple checks that can be carried out by the reception staff. After all they are perfectly willing to phone to request a translator for somebody who cannot speak English, so why not carry out some basic checks.
Doc long may you continue to contribute to this forum as your posts are interesting and informative and I'm sure appreciated by everyone here.

[grahamw48]

Fair point Marco.

It's the dragons on reception that normally want to interrogate you in a loud voice in front of the whole waiting room...so everyone can share the tale of your painful bowel movements and severe diarrhoea...plus any other pertinent details.

[Arthur Little]

Hmm ... guess I won't be too popular for airing my views on what is clearly a sore point in many British peoples' eyes.

about that, folks ... ... but it's what I believe!

[grahamw48]

You're quite entitled to air your views Arthur.

[Arthur Little]

You're quite entitled to air your views Arthur.

... thanks, Graham.

[joebloggs]

receptionists at dentist don't have a problem asking, no, not asking but demanding you pay first before you see the dentist, for many years they always asked after they had treated you, maybe some people didn't pay

i hurt my ankle once before i went to the phils, after limping around for a few days, the misses took me to a hospital in the phils, they did an x-ray etc, i paid, i wasn't expecting treatment for nothing after all there is no thing as a 'free lunch' someone, somewhere pays in the end and that's why your suppose to have health\travel insurance if you visit the UK.

as for your one reply to your post doc alan, its had 200+ views. i've made many posts that i thought were important and didn't get any replies, maybe people just don't have anything to reply with it doesn't mean they don't appreciate the time and effort you took