Hello Rands,Originally posted by rands@Nov 21 2005, 06:03 PM
Hello everyone,
I am new in this site. I am currently preparing for my fiance visa application. I need your advice regarding the application aside from the ones written in this site. I need to know what you think our CHANCES of getting a fiance visa.
Here is the case:
1. My fiance and i have met once for about a couple of weeks and we have known each other for 7 months. We have been committed for 5 months including online and until personal meeting.
2. We have evidence of this in the form of a. emails, b. greeting cards, c. photographs, and d. Yahoo Chat Log
Note that the emails and cards are only a few like 5-10 pcs as we usually use yahoo chat messenger and we chat for 3-5 hours. MY PROBLEM is most of our chats include very personal conversations which include sex and visa stuff and etc, which i think normal to a couple. PLEASE Advise on how to print this YAHOO CHAT LOG without the content but it included the entent of time of the chat cause as i see, it only shows the DATE, MY FIANCE NAME AND MY NAME.
3. The british fiance has complete papers.
THANKS a lot for your help.
Rands
Thanks for asking our advices regarding your personal set of circumstances, as my colleagues here at FilipinoUK have already told you, Rob has suggested I throw in my party peice, it wont be much different from my colleagues who have advised you on what you should do, yahoo chat transcripts are in themselves, not of much interest to ECO's (Entry Clearance Officers) in assessing your application, Im not sure, which one you are ? the applicant or the sponsor, what you must first do, is learn the terminology, for example, I always make clear in my writings on this forum and on my personal website, that the applicant which is the Filipino lady, has the task of convincing Entry Clearance Officers that the relationship is genuine, I often get asked by people, how do they do this or how is their decision reached ??
1. Quite simply their decision is based on a balance of probability !
How is this determined ?
Stage 1.
Evidence of Relationship[/B]
Evidence of Relationship is very hard for the ECO to not take into consideration, some sponsors have taken a rather blase attitude to this of late, and then complain when the applicant is refused a visa, for example, they seem to rely too much on E mails, chat logs, and one or two photos, as Paul has said, and Rob also has alluded too, there are too many Filipina's who establish relationships quickly via internet and then go for interviews, with foreign embassies, they may have been to different ones, in fact I know of one case, where a Filipina has been declined a visa 5 times with different foreign embassies, the US. the British, The German, the Dutch and the Italian Embassies.
Therefore, Entry Clearance Officers are normally very quick in picking out what they think is a short term long distance convenience relationship via internet, I would be honest with you even in my own situation Entry Clearance officers were quick to point out that my relationship with my wife started via internet, even though I had been to the Philippines 7 times in 2 years, and had spent over 3 months out of my working year, living in the Philippines, even though I had 6 ton of personal letters, and 3 albums of photos, and even though I had taken my then fiancee out of the Philippines for 3 overseas holidays, they still deemed it appropriate to question our sincerity in an interview, which I think you should at least have a look at, its on th is forum, somewhere in the UKvisas/British Citizenship section.
Therefore to complete the 1st stage, your evidence of relationship needs to be overwhelming, we always work on the principle, give them more than they are expecting, and then you have not left anything to chance.
For example, start writing nice hand written letters between the applicant and sponsor, the lettters should be formal, and well presented, make sure they have postmarks on, including local stamps, try and write at least 2 a week, (some people are going to tell you dont bother this is not neccessary !they may be right ! and you might g et away with not having them, well some have got visas' without bothering to do this, thats the risk they took and its a risk you will take too, however, if you are that serious about getting a visa for the applicant, you will do everything possible not to leave the matter to chance, some sponsors in UK go to extraordinary lengths to make sure they have more than is required, In my own case I had a case file as thick as a book case on the subject, everything from Western Union money receipts, bank transfers, cards, letters, photo albums, gift receipts, photos of gifts sent, you name it I had it, when we showed p at the British Embassy, we had our things in 2 Rustans carrier bags, everyone looked at us, but we didnt care, the fact is, its your life and not theres, you only get one shot at this, if you are refused, an appeal can take up to 1 year, and then you come under the realms of the Asylum and Immigrations appeals Tribunal, representation is expensive at over £2500.00 per case, and to get it into court can take forever.
Still dont beleive me ? if you dont.....maybe you should think carefully, about what I have to say, and what others say, so, WRITE LETTERS NOW !!! Keep copies of everything, boarding cards, flowers receipts, just about anything you ever did, as for the 7 month thing, its ok, there is nothing wrong with that, you have met the applicant once, which fits the rules, remember what I said earlier, the ECO works on 1 thing, the balance of probability.
How is that defined ??
Home Office rules for Entry Clearance Officers leave the burden proof with the applicant, that is the Filipina applicant, it is normally her, or (him) in cases now, where the applicant must satisfy the ECO in an oral interview, that the balance of probability is tilted in the favour of the applicant, that he or she will live together with the sponsor in the UK as man and wife together, or if the applicant is for a fiancee visa, that the applicant intends to carry out a marriage ceremony and that they will live together as man and wife after a marriage has taken place, if the applicant fails to satisfy the ECO a visa is refused, the ECO must then give written reasons for the refusal and the applicant can appeal within 28 days, the applicant can ask the applicant to be reviewed by an Entry Clearance Manager, who can alter the decision, but dont hold your breath, I know the Entry Clearance Manager at the British Embassy Manila, her name is Jacqueline Lewin, and trust me, you dont want to have to be referred to her, you wont get any favours from her.
The Key is to get it right first time round, so the applicant has to convince the Entry Clearance officer that they intend to live together as man and wife, this is sadly determined through an oral interview, this is a question and answer session, where the ECO atttempts to establish the facts of the relationship, the decision whether to grant a visa is at best an arbitrary one, in other words, his or her word is final, they will say it like this
(A) I am satisfied with your application and I will grant you a visa come back tomorrow at 3pm to collect your passport.
or
(B) I am n ot satisfied with your application and I refuse your visa to enter the United Kingdom I will issue you with my written reasons for coming to this decision you can appeal within 28 days, and I will give you information on how to do this.
That is about the crux of the mattter, if you wish to study further in this regard, please go and study a transcript of my wife's interview here:
ete and Gina Bennetts British Embassy Experience
Well where do i start, perhaps at the beginning, as some of you will know, I had flown out to Manila with a good freind of mine, Steve Smith from Glasgow, who was also visiting his wife in Cavite, sadly, they had to cancel their settlement visa interview which was for the 9th of June, as they do not have the required evidence of accomodation, and other important documents, it was decided that he should cancel...to leave for later date and not suffer the chance of a refusal to issue a visa.
Gina and I flew to Manila on Saturday afternoon, wanting to be in town, for two things
1. To take stock of our paperwork and prepare.
2. To do some role playing on the ECO/Applicant interview.
Well as you will see later, we actually had a gift horse thrown at us, to perhaps help some of you in the future, I think the Embassy actually made a mistake, in that they accidentally released the notes they had made about the interview from their point of view, when Gina called on Tuesday to collect her Passport with the nice UK Entry Clearance Visa stamped neatly in the back.
The Morning of Monday the 6th June 2005 interview appointment time 11.00am.
Working on the basis of "its better to be earlier than late" Gina and i awoke around 6.30am and had a hearty breakfast, we left the hotel, with our massive Rustans shopping carrier bag, with the following items inside.
1. Evidence of relationship File.
2. Large Album of Photos spanning 2 years of courtship.
3. File with Application Forms, NSO Docs, Birth Certs, Mutliple Copies of this and that.
4. Wedding Album
5. 6 Ton of personal letters (Just Kidding - Keith will understand this one)
6. Passports
We arrived at the Embassy at around 10.15am for our 11.00am time slot, on arrival we noted the prescence of 2 Philippine Marine Guards with M16's and 1 Police Officer, also a civilian security guard, we were asked to deposit our ID Card, although I was not asked to leave ID..Gina was.
We then went to Ground Floor reception, at reception a Filipina asked us what our business was, She asked if it was for Visa, we stated affirmative, I then tried to go upstairs to the 15th Floor, but was denied entry, on the grounds that Sponsors are not allowed up to the Visa Section as their is no where for them to wait, and they are not allowed in the Interview room.
At that point I tried to argue the situation, again to no avail, a polite smile, and that it is the British Embassy policy, I had to leave Gina and say goodbye, she then proceeded upstairs in the lift without me, no doubt Rob went through same situation as I did.
Their is no where to actually wait outside the Embassy, so i made freinds with the Marines and started a conversation about everything from "Do you have a loaded weapon, or full magazine" to the weather, they let me stay there, outside, whilst other filipinos were asked to move on, this is something to note for the future, to anyone who goes after me, there is little point in my view of the Sponsor husband or fiance actually hanging around as
1. The Applicant cannot take a cellphone in to call you.
2. You have no idea how long they will be as I will show you.
Gina left to go upstairs at 10.15am, I did not see her again until 12.30pm, and by this time she had still not been called forward for her interview.
Let me explain further.
Remembering now it is 30 degrees outside on the sidewalk, the traffic is bedlam, the noise is incredible, standing on the corner of Ayala and Makati Avenue, opposite the Shangri-la is the worse place to actually be, and outside the LV Locsin Building they are altering the road, so there is no path, its a dogs dinner, and hot.
I managed to find out, that all applicants are interviewed on the basis of Alphabetical order, this is ok in principle, but as I found out, if your maiden name is Yap as Gina's is, (and by the way, it does not seem to be a problem, if you are married and are interviewed as what is in your passport..i.e. your maiden name, this has no relevance, so dont go worrying about changing your wife's passport to her married name, this can take up to 1 month)
So applicants are interviewed from the A's through to the Y's etc, this meant that all applicants that turned up in the morning, and appointments started at 08.30am, this seems to be irrelevant, therefore, in my case, after standing outside for 2 and 3 quarter hours, I was sweating, sticky and tired, Gina came out with another lady who both said, they had not even been called.
They were told to come back at 2pm.
So Gina and I..and another guy who was stood with me, Kenny from Birmingham, and Steve and Lorna my freinds, we all went to the Ayala Centre Museum Cafe, incidentally, this is nice, about 100 yards to your left and easily spottable, we had a nice lunch there, and its air conditioned throughout.
--------------------
Pete_Admin
Gina and Pete's Website
The British Embassy Afternoon Session
At 2pm we all returned to the front of the LV Locsin building and said our Goodbyes kenny and I again chatted outside, the time seemed to drag, until about 4.30...now another 2.5 hours of hanging around, we were told we could go around the back of the LV Locsin Building and there was a coffee shop..hahaha if you could call it that.
We went around the back, its more like a mini mart, with a few seats and tables, the coffee is basically, a cup with dried coffee and you help yourself to hot water, its about 20 P a cup, actually, we did not sit their long as we were both worried that the girls would come out and we would miss them, again as I have previously stated, there is no way to know if your partner has emerged.
We saw plenty of Filipina's coming out, who we stopped and asked them what they had applied for, there had been many refusals, but as I had previously thought, and now can put it to rest, the majority of applications in the daytime are for Student, Work and dependant Visa's a category which we have rarely discussed on the Forum.
Dependant Applications are for Filipino's who have relatives in the UK on permament work visas, I.E. Nurses and other skilled people under the "Skilled Migrant programme"
Most of the refusals we met, were dependants who had applied to join their relatives, there were we found out, only 7 Applicants who had gone up to the Embassy that day, (we got this information out of the Guard, who told us how many Settlement applications had slipped pas him)
The interesting thing I then found out, was that any applicant who showed up for an afternoon appointment was actually being interviwed before my Gina who had arrived at 10.15am, a bit shitty but true, Gina was in fact the last applicant to be interviewed that day.
When Gina arrived at 10.30am, she told me she sat until 11.00am, and was relieved of the following.
1. The VAFW2004
2. The current Fee P27,300
3. A Covering Letter I had written.
4. Our NSO Marriage Certificate
5. Her NSO Birth Certificate
6. Her Passport.
These were the only things taken, it was not until her Interview was she then asked to produce the following
1. My Divorce Decree Absolute.
2. 2nd Copy of Legal Capacity for Marriage
3. Evidence of Accomodation.
4. Bank Statements.
5. Letter from my Employer Stating Salary and Commissions for last 2 years.
6. Copy of NSO Marriage Certificate.
Although I had made it known to the ECO that I was at the Embassy, and available to be interviewed if necessary, a good thing in my view as I shall show you later, the ECO did not once ask for me, the decision to grant the visa was purely made on the basis of the Application with the Applicant and her responses.
The Interview
The reason I am able to relate the interview word for word, is that when Gina went on Tuesday at 3pm to collect her Visa, they Embassy I think has made a mistake in that they gave us a full transcript of the Interview and i can reveal the following.
1. The Interviewer now transcribes the Interview and does not write anything, having a PC Available in the Room.
2. The Interviewer also makes a summary of his her opinion on the Applicants Sincerity, and the decision to grant or refuse a visa is arbitrary, and not objective as we had been led to beleive, something of which i find disturbing.
So how did it go...something Like this.
1. Hello Mrs Bennett I understand you have applied in your Maiden name, did you complete this application ?
A Yes i did.
2. Are you fit and well to be interviewed today ?
A Yes I am.
3. Would you prefer the Interview to be completed in your native Language or in English.
A English please.
4. Very well..So this is your application, are the answers contained within this document you have submitted correct ?
A Yes they are.
5. Can you tell me How you first made contact with your husband ?
A I met Peter on Yahoo chatting and we exchanged E Mails.
6. So why were you on the Internet ?
A Just looking for a freind ?
7. Come on, surely you were looking for a husband to get you out of the Philippines were you not ?
A No I was just looking for a nice freind, but yes actually a foreign one.
8. So really then, it would be true to say, you wanted a foreign husband, isnt that the case ?
A Not really, but I suppose I would prefer a foreign husband to my own kind.
9. Why is that ? is it because you want to go to UK For a better life ?
A No I am happy here with my Job as an office Manager I never really thought about the UK in that sense.
10. Come on you can do better than that, is that the real reason, are you really expecting me to beleive that you dont want a better life ?
A. Well everyone does dont they, but as long as I can take care of my husband I will be happy if he lives here in the Philippines.
11. Did your husband ever talk of coming to live with you here in the Philippines ?
A Yes he loves it in my country, but he does not think he could make a living here.
12. I see. so how much does he earn then ?
A He earns xxxxx to xxxxx but he has not earned as much as he has been to see me 4 times last year.
13. When did he propose to you or did you propose to him ?
A He proposed to me in Ilo Ilo City on 12th March 2004.
14. So if i decide to refuse you a visa, what will you do, end your life or something like that (ECO Laughs)
A No actually I will ask my husband to come and live with me, although i think he will never be happy as he cant make the money he makes in UK.
15. So what attracted you to your husband ?
A His qualities
16. Come on you can do better than that, their must be things you can tell me why you were attracted to him ?
Well he is generous, and loving, he is caring, I like his sense of humour, and honest with me, and I trust him.
17. So would you say then that this is the reason you wanted a foreign husband, because that is what you wanted wasnt it ?
A Well not neccessarily a foreign husband, but a husband with those qualities, I always thought British men were like that...
18. Why does your husband not own a house ? oh yes I Can see, he is divorced recently isnt he ?
A Yes he was, he lost the house to the former wife.
19. Oh yes So the ex wife got it all did she (ECO Laughs) ?
A Yes she got it all..but my husband has rented a house for me to live in.
20. Does you husband have family ?
A Yes he does, his Mother is called...xxxx his Father is xxxx his Sister is xxxx and her children are called xxxxxxx.
ECO Says : "Mrs Bennett I am satisfied with your application and your answers, I am happy to grant you a visa, will you please come back tomorrow at 3pm, as it is too late to issue it today, I will then have all your documents returned to you, before you go, were you happy with the style of interview, and how you have been treated today. ?"
A well..its ok
ECO Says: (Laughing) come on, just ok ?
A Well i am happy to receive my visa thank you.
ECO Thank you also...Enjoy the rest of your day.
This effectively concludes my answer to your query, you may also wish to go to a website I built for people like you, its at http://www.british-filipino.com you might also wish to point your browser to the Uk Entry Clearance Section, also look out for other pages over Xmas this year, entitled
The British Embassy Manila personal Experiences.
Hope this helps.
Best of Luck Pete
