World's Busiest Maternity Hospital - in Manila.

[SimonH]

Stop questioning why he became a moderator. It was the Admin's decision many years ago and Joe has been here in the forum for 7 years. If you have all your free time, go and search joe's posts for the past 7 years to know why he became a moderator.

Am I as a member of this forum, am I not allowed to question those who have been here longer than me

As an Admin's Assistant I would hazard a guess that you assist in the administration of the forum, and it's very much appreciated

As a moderator of a forum, I would have guessed that the role would involve some sort of moderating forum members rather than antagonising them, hence the question


This isn't meant to be an argument, and I'm trying not to turn it into one, but it's beginning to feel like I'm the new boy who should keep his mouth shut and accept what the established members say without question

[raynaputi]

Am I as a member of this forum, am I not allowed to question those who have been here longer than me

As an Admin's Assistant I would hazard a guess that you assist in the administration of the forum, and it's very much appreciated

As a moderator of a forum, I would have guessed that the role would involve some sort of moderating forum members rather than antagonising them, hence the question


This isn't meant to be an argument, and I'm trying not to turn it into one, but it's beginning to feel like I'm the new boy who should keep his mouth shut and accept what the established members say without question

You don't know the work that moderators here do. That involves not just being in the forum but monitoring whatever is happening in the forum and helping the admin. Do you have time to monitor the spammers, new sign ups, etc.? Do you have time to approve moderated posts? Do you have time to delete inappropriate posts? Can you give appropriate advice to the members, especially the new ones, with regards to visas and such? Can you commit to be in the forum every single day and see to it that the forum is not dead? Now, if someone can commit to that job, then he/she can be a moderator. Remember, they don't get paid doing these things.

I don't think Joe has antagonised the members here. He is expressing his views. Just like everyone else. If you really want to know why he became a moderator, do as I told you. Read his posts from the start he became a member here. You would see why.

By the way, my husband, Win2win, is the owner of the forum. Hence I'm the assistant.

[joebloggs]

before it was stated that she was bullied into giving a guess.

You still avoid my very pertinent question about how you become a moderator when all you do is antagonise
You are beginning to resemble the Vicky Pollard of this forum with all your "yeah but, no but" answers

'bullied' now

19,000 posts over 7yrs and helping a lot of people along the way

[SimonH]

You don't know the work that moderators here do. That involves not just being in the forum but monitoring whatever is happening in the forum and helping the admin. Do you have time to monitor the spammers, new sign ups, etc.? Do you have time to approve moderated posts? Do you have time to delete inappropriate posts? Can you give appropriate advice to the members, especially the new ones, with regards to visas and such? Can you commit to be in the forum every single day and see to it that the forum is not dead? Now, if someone can commit to that job, then he/she can be a moderator. Remember, they don't get paid doing these things.

I don't think Joe has antagonised the members here. He is expressing his views. Just like everyone else. If you really want to know why he became a moderator, do as I told you. Read his posts from the start he became a member here. You would see why.

By the way, my husband, Win2win, is the owner of the forum. Hence I'm the assistant.

I'm well aware of who the founder and his wife are, thank you

Maybe a more appropriate term for moderator as you've described it would be monitor, then I would get confused as to what the role was

As far as reading Joe's posts from the beginning, that would be rather futile as I imagine a lot of those posts involve members no longer here, and therefore I wouldn't want to read anything out of context or misinterpret a response.

Thanks again for clarifying what the role of moderator is

[SimonH]

'bullied' now

19,000 posts over 7yrs and helping a lot of people along the way

Again, no Joe The nurse was bullied into giving a figure

[raynaputi]

I watched this last night. This made me miss home more! Good thing we're going home soon.

Anyway, Fabella hospital is just walking distance to where we live in Manila. Outside that hospital is a wet market (called Central Market) and lots and lots of kids there. My mum gave birth to my youngest brother in that hospital 25 years ago.

[grahamw48]

one of the many comments from Ems was why do they always seem to show the slums when there are beautiful places too,

I think it's just because of the shocking contrasts Steve. People need to be reminded...so maybe not a bad thing really.

[highlander01]

yeah - I watched it with fascination. Huge contrasts between Makati & Tondo. All respect for the woman who was working in Citibank and had dragged herself out of poverty. Really inspiring.

[SimonH]

'bullied' now

19,000 posts over 7yrs and helping a lot of people along the way

No apology needed

[joebloggs]

Again, no Joe The nurse was bullied into giving a figure

bully1
ˈbʊli/
verb
past tense: bullied; past participle: bullied

1.
use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something.


why is it, with all the banter btw me, dedworth, Gwapito, Les none have ever complained about me as much as you have

i dont agree with much of what they post, but we learn to get along..

[SimonH]

bully1
ˈbʊli/
verb
past tense: bullied; past participle: bullied

1.
use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something.


why is it, with all the banter btw me , dedworth, Gwapito, Les none have ever complained about me as much as you have

i dont agree with much of what they post, but we learn to get along..

As per Marco's response in post 16 "The interviewer then pushed her and she just said 200,000." so this can be interpreted as being bullied
The programme HAS (past tense) been aired, the interviewer DID push her (past tense), therefore she WAS pushed or bullied into giving an answer
At what point in your post number 33 did you get the impression that I had accused you of bullying

[bigmarco]

As per Marco's response in post 16 "The interviewer then pushed her and she just said 200,000." so this can be interpreted as being bullied
The programme HAS (past tense) been aired, the interviewer DID push her (past tense), therefore she WAS pushed or bullied into giving an answer
At what point in your post number 33 did you get the impression that I had accused you of bullying

Perhaps you spend too much time over analysing posts. You have a tendency to reach for the Calculator or now the dictionary to prove somebody wrong. It was just a very interesting TV programme.
I wouldn't know Joe Bloggs if he walked past me in the street but I'm sure many others like me are offended at you questioning his suitability as a Moderator. Joe along with the other Moderators has helped a lot of people myself included on their difficult journey to be with their partners. You're fighting a losing battle on this front so I suuggest you give it up.

[SimonH]

Perhaps you spend too much time over analysing posts. You have a tendency to reach for the Calculator or now the dictionary to prove somebody wrong. It was just a very interesting TV programme.
I wouldn't know Joe Bloggs if he walked past me in the street but I'm sure many others like me are offended at you questioning his suitability as a Moderator. Joe along with the other Moderators has helped a lot of people myself included on their difficult journey to be with their partners. You're fighting a losing battle on this front so I suuggest you give it up.

Marco, at no point was any question of Joe's suitability or credibility questioned As Rayna kindly pointed out the role of a moderator, maybe I took the term too literally, which is why I said that maybe monitor would be a more apt description.

I took the calculator out to demonstrate the unfeasibility of the nurses claim and not to doubt any members quotes

Anyway, off to lunch now

No offence was intended, and I hope none was taken

[joebloggs]

Again, no Joe The nurse was bullied into giving a figure

did you watch the program ? well to refresh your memory here is the clip again.



is that what you class as bullying



Chief midwife Anna Prebus has delivered so many babies, she finds it impossible to remember how many she has brought into the world.

'I'm sorry but I can't remember [how many babies I've delivered],' she tells Rani. 'It's so many! Maybe 200,000. I've been here since 1986, almost 28 years.'

One in five of central Manila's mothers come here to deliver their babies, and midwives work day and night.

'Sometimes, during high season, 13 to 16 babies are in the delivery room at the same time,' Arlene Matanguihan, a resident doctor, said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...#ixzz2jOrYNya6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[grahamw48]

I have just sent that link to my niece, on Facebook. She lives in Tondo and has just completed her midwife training.

[Doc Alan]

This was indeed a very interesting programme, both realistic about the present and optimistic for the future !


Anita Rani told us that 1/5 mums from central Manila come to the Dr Jose Fabella Memorial Hospital ; 200 had registered by 10 am that day ; and it’s a “ 24 hour operation “ resulting in around 24,000 deliveries each year.


She told us about the “ hands on approach, with no sense of panic or chaos “ suggesting it was “ something in the psyche of Filipinas.


We were introduced to Rosalie, who already had 6 children, and no period since her LAST pregnancy. Because of increased risk of haemorrhage, and a shortage of blood for donation, relatives are encouraged to be present in case of the need for transfusion. Rosalie came from Tondo, the “ biggest slum “, home to half a million, which has developed around a rubbish dump. Rosalie earns 250 pesos for each gown she makes ; her husband ( a carpenter and mason ) earns around 380 pesos /day. The points were made that the poorest people – in Tondo, as elsewhere – tend to have the most children, and Manila is expected to grow in population by half in the next 40 years.


Even so, Anita told us, “ things are changing ; the economy has grown “.


We were then “ taken “ to Makati, and told that there are many thousands of businesses there now. The Maternity Unit of the private Makati Medical Center is “ state of the art “. A Caesarean Section “ might cost 140 – 150 thousand pesos “. Our second expectant Mum, Rose, typical of the increasing number of “ upper middle classes “ who can now afford it, was due to have her second ( and last ) baby by “ scheduled Caesarian Section “ ( we weren’t told the clinical reason ). Her husband is a banker. Their home for the past two years has been in the “ new Manila “. “ Most wealthier Filipinos “ limit themselves to 2 children.


We were told that there could potentially be an end to the “ population explosion “ if more suitable jobs could be available in the Philippines, further increasing the numbers of “ middle classes “ and perhaps decreasing the need for so many OFW’s. “ The Philippines is the Call Center capital of the world “ ( it’s overtaken India ), with “ half a million employed in this work “. Such Filipinos are “ patient; polite; well educated ( a priority according to a respected local businessman ); most having degrees; willing to work long hours; for lower pay than in the UK ( £ 300 – 400 / month ) “. Medical tourism and financial services also got a mention.


“ Population growth has slowed around the world, even in Tondo “ we were told. We were reminded that the Philippines is predominantly Catholic, contraception is not readily available, and expensive if it is.


The third lady, Jenalyn, was also from Tondo. She has 10 sibs and wants to “ break the lifestyle her mother has “. She was doing work experience / an “ internship “ for City Bank, and was desperate to find a job to fund studying and a better lifestyle before having a family. Thankfully she did get a permanent job with the bank, after very careful preparation !


By complete contrast, we were then “ taken “ to meet a female Plastic Surgeon, in one of her 9 private clinics. Anita chatted to an 18 year old Filipina who was to have laser treatment for “ under-arm whitening “. She was typical of an “ increasing number of younger Filipinos “ able to afford such treatment.


Apparently the “ average number “ of babies for each Filipina has fallen from 5 to 3 in the past 30 years. This reflects a trend elsewhere in the world.



Rosalie ( already with 6 kids ) was desperate to be delivered naturally, and not by Caesarian Section, because the cost of that would “ bankrupt the family “ … money being their “ biggest worry “. Thankfully it WAS a natural childbirth ! The boy did however have “ an uncertain future; born into poverty in a tough city; with no safety net “, although Anita added that “ there is hope now there WILL be a better life “. Indeed the programme ended on the optimistic note that “ after decades of stagnation and poverty, children born today COULD be as wealthy as Westerners ! “


There were omissions in the programme ( no mention of Reproductive Health Act ; or statistics such as the Philippines birth rate, at around 25/1000 population, twice that of the UK; infant mortality rate, around 18/1000 live births, over four times that of the UK; maternal mortality rate, at between 100 and over 200/100,000 live births, at least eight times that of the UK ; more than half of Philippine pregnancies are unintended; see also http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....ductive+health
).


But these are minor points – there was a limit to how much could be shown in the available time. I only hope as many members as possible can see this programme .


In the UK, over a quarter of deliveries are by Caesarian Section ( 15% emergency, 10% “ elective “ ). It’s based on clinical need / safety ( and mother’s wishes ). Cost doesn’t directly come into the equation ! I for one find it very hard to accept that necessary treatment for ANY condition ( free at the point of need in the UK ) may be unaffordable in the Philippines - with serious consequences .


Having a notebook by the hospital bedside to write down complaints – as recently recommended in England – is an unfortunate sign of the times here.


How I also wish that others here in the UK appreciate their own NHS compared to the situation in countries such as the Philippines. This programme might have helped !

[grahamw48]

Nice precis Doc.

Yes, hopefully those who take the NHS (and the welfare system) in this country for granted will pause for thought.

[bigmarco]

How I also wish that others here in the UK appreciate their own NHS compared to the situation in countries such as the Philippines. This programme might have helped !

Well said Doc
We managed to watch it with my youngest daughter and she was shocked at some of what she saw.
As you said it makes you appreciate what you have here.

[gWaPito]

I'll see if I can catch it on the BBC iplayer when I'm next off work

[joebloggs]

Nice precis Doc.

Yes, hopefully those who take the NHS (and the welfare system) in this country for granted will pause for thought.

Well said Doc
We managed to watch it with my youngest daughter and she was shocked at some of what she saw.
As you said it makes you appreciate what you have here.

good post docAlan, we need to make sure the NHS stays the way it is and not let it be broken up or privatized thru the back door.

the worse day for my wife at this hospital was the day she had 3 stillborn babes in one shift

[Rosie1958]

I've only just seen this thread and therefore missed the programme. Will be watching it on BBC iplayer as soon as I can

[gWaPito]

I managed to escape work earlier tonight....So managed to watch the programme, in fact I watch it twice, it was that good . For a change, it was a programme made in favour of the Philippines and rightly so...Well done the BBC

I wholeheartedly agree with all what Doc Alan posted ( I've got to keep spreading the rep, sorry )....it seems as if the birth rate is adjusting itself without the assistance of the much needed health bill

[Rosie1958]

I really enjoyed watching this programme tonight on BBC iPlayer and thank you to Doc Alan who not only told us about it but has also provided a great summary! I sponsor the education of a little girl living in Tondo and I can only hope that perhaps one day like Jenalyn she is able to hoist herself and her family out of the terrible living conditions there.

I was very surprised to see Makati Medical Centre in this programme, I spent two weeks there with my brother three years ago. Treatment is expensive but not all of the rooms are as good as that featured on the TV programme, they all have different price tags. I was even more surprised to see the plastic surgeon being interviewed and the designer/ signature shopping malls being featured too as I didn't understand at first how this tied in with the maternity hospital but I guess that the programme makers were trying to portray the growth of the economy.

I have seen a similar TV programme before in which 4 to 5 women are sharing one bed before and after giving birth. The whole operation and control in the first hospital featured in this programme in obviously difficult conditions is amazing.

This programme brings good news and hope for the future, especially the news that the birth rate is continuing to decline.

Hopefully more people in the UK have watched this programme and appreciate just how lucky we are to have the NHS.

[sars_notd_virus]

There were omissions in the programme ( no mention of Reproductive Health Act ; or statistics such as the Philippines birth rate, at around 25/1000 population, twice that of the UK; infant mortality rate, around 18/1000 live births, over four times that of the UK; maternal mortality rate, at between 100 and over 200/100,000 live births, at least eight times that of the UK ; more than half of Philippine pregnancies are unintended; see also http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....ductive+health
).

Something else they failed to mention about the use of contraception ... that the church frowns upon it!!

[RickyR]

I'll be watching this on iPlayer tonight.

[grahamw48]

Something else they failed to mention about the use of contraception ... that the church frowns upon it!!

They did mention at one point that contraception was expensive/difficult to access, which is total rubbish.

The Catholic church have a lot to answer for as far as overpopulation and poverty are concerned.

Of course even in this country there are plenty who moan about how poor they are, but seem to have given no thought to the fact that perhaps waiting until they could AFFORD to have children might not have been a bad idea.

[Michael Parnham]

They did mention at one point that contraception was expensive/difficult to access, which is total rubbish.

The Catholic church have a lot to answer for as far as overpopulation and poverty are concerned.

Of course even in this country there are plenty who moan about how poor they are, but seem to have given no thought to the fact that perhaps waiting until they could AFFORD to have children might not have been a bad idea.

The Catholic church encourage people to have big families because they need future generations to keep giving money to the church, more babies more money!

[grahamw48]

Hmm....trying not to come down too hard on Catholicism, out of respect for the lady members on here in particular.

Being an atheist means I can also share the criticism around of course.

[SimonH]

Being an atheist means I can also share the criticism around of course.

Being an Agnostic, I can listen to it all

[grahamw48]

I can live without doubt.