Doctors in The Dock

[Dedworth]

Thanks Alan after reading your informed write up I realise that after becoming somewhat enraged reading the British Medical Journal report I not for the first time, shot from the hip by glibly stating :-

"I doubt it the NHS is awash with these foreign shysters"

I've now changed it to :-

"I doubt it GMC Disciplinary Hearings are awash with these foreign shysters"

I know Joe would vehemently disagree but I think we do need to consider why a disproportionate number of Doctors up before the Disciplinary Panel are foreign. Here are a couple of links to my previous threads for those wishing to read a bit more detail :-

Half Of Foreign Doctors 'Not Trained Enough'
http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....edical+Council

Indian doctors are FOUR times more likely to be struck off than those trained in Britain
http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....edical+Council

The GMC have made the right decision in striking Ioannis Tosounidis off, I hope it is permanent with no chance of him creeping back into UK employment following appeal

[Doc Alan]

I'm glad to have helped both Graham and you, Dedworth


As you know, I also gave informed responses, in depth, to your previous threads .

[London_Manila]

With the amount of litigation flying around these days and the "claim culture" being imported from the USA

I wonder why anyone would want to become a doctor

[Doc Alan]

With the amount of litigation flying around these days and the "claim culture" being imported from the USA
I wonder why anyone would want to become a doctor

Indeed ! But there are still many more applicants than places ( over 10 : 1 ) at medical school

I'm fortunate to have had a rewarding career, in the dock frequently ... as an expert witness !

[Dedworth]

Crooked doctor hands back MBE

Read more: http://www.bedfordshire-news.co.uk/N...#ixzz395jqmT8a

[grahamw48]

A crook is a crook is a crook.



Not to be trusted EVER.

[joebloggs]

I know Joe would vehemently disagree but I think we do need to consider why a disproportionate number of Doctors up before the Disciplinary Panel are foreign. Here are a couple of links to my previous threads for those wishing to read a bit more detail :-

Well Dedworth, you can disagree all you want, I've proved you wrong, the fact is many of the doctors you've posted about were either British or went to uni here

[Dedworth]

Well Dedworth, you can disagree all you want, I've proved you wrong, the fact is many of the doctors you've posted about were either British or went to uni here

Proved me wrong, Many ????

For the sake of good order Joe give us the figures - and I'm talking foreign born "Doctors" not some shyster with a spurious foreign medical qualification on a dodgy student visa who enrolled at a "uni" here whist working as a cashier at the local BP filling station

[grahamw48]

I'm with you Dedworth.

Not so easy to pull the wool over our eyes.

[Dedworth]

Haematologist is struck off after lying about his involvement in car crash

http://blogs.bmj.com/test/2014/08/06...-in-car-crash/

Basic background check please Joe UK born, educated ??

[Pete/London]

You know of one that is better, Dedworth

How many people are employed by the NHS Dedworth? From what I can see 1.35m, so you're going to get a few bad eggs out of that number

As for feet washing, I used to work with 2 Libyans and I once caught one washing his feet in the sink, disgusting

Hi all, it's been a long time since I visited the site, but interesting topic.

I was attending the Emergency Dept at Moorfields Eye Hospital in London on a Friday morning some weeks ago and you had to fight your way into the Gents toilet to take a leak and gave up on trying to wash my hands afterwards. The place was full of people barefoot, washing their feet in the basins, also cleaning their sinuses and blowing snot into the same basins. I have never seen anything like it.

The standards in this country have really so deteriorated that it seems pointless to protest.

[Dedworth]

Hi all, it's been a long time since I visited the site, but interesting topic.

I was attending the Emergency Dept at Moorfields Eye Hospital in London on a Friday morning some weeks ago and you had to fight your way into the Gents toilet to take a leak and gave up on trying to wash my hands afterwards. The place was full of people barefoot, washing their feet in the basins, also cleaning their sinuses and blowing snot into the same basins. I have never seen anything like it.

The standards in this country have really so deteriorated that it seems pointless to protest.

A complete disgrace I remember going there as a kid, the country's premier eye hospital has shamefully been turned over to health tourists and other undesirables.

NHS "the envy of the world" as leftist propagandists would have us believe

[Pete/London]

I since had both eyes operated on there and I am full of praise for the hospital, great treatment, and the consultant carrying out the ops is going through the menopause and had to stop during the op to remove some clothes so she could cool down. So funny...and eased the tension....

It's up to the management and security staff to to sort the other problems out, but I think most of the security was also washing their feet at the time.

[Abigail]

I found this really interesting. I don't have a problem with 'foreign' doctors if they are good at their job and have the necessary skills and abilities. What I have a problem with is doctors of any nationality who do not know what they are talking about but assume that because they have the title of Doctor no matter what they say it is right.

I have a relatively unknown skin condition and am a member of various support groups for it and between us all we have tried every medication they offer us and we know that very few of them work or have limited results. However when you mention that to a doctor they tell you that they are the ones trained and who know best. Well I am sorry but sometimes that is just not the case!!

[Dedworth]

Another chancer "Dr"Abdel Elhassan is struck off :-

Doctor duped college to sit exam after failing seven times

- See more at: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news....ios0gZW9.dpuf

Check him out Joe

[Doc Alan]

The NHS is still the envy of many, not just " leftist propagandists ", and not least Filipinos, who, if they fall ill in their own country, may well not recover and even die if they can’t afford treatment .



I’ve explained ( # 29 ) and elsewhere in the Forum, WHY the UK has so many foreign doctors, often in specialties which would otherwise be unfilled, in locations unpopular with UK graduates. With hindsight, some should never have been appointed, and have rightly been struck off. The system has improved in the 14 years since the late Leeds University graduate Dr Harold Shipman was found guilty of murdering his patients. Sadly it is unlikely EVER to be perfect.



• The vast majority of doctors and other healthcare workers ( of whatever nationality ) are dedicated to providing a good service and put their patients first;

• The " silent majority " ( both on the Forum and the UK public ) are happy with their treatment.


Ways to actively do something about perceived shortcomings of our NHS :-

• Informally, then formally if needed, complain about GPs or hospital doctors at a local level ( well established mechanisms to do so );

• Join local patient liaison committees, and/or national patient liaison groups ( every major specialty has one ) ;

• Attend public hearings / become a non-medical panellist on the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service - which runs the hearings for doctors whose fitness to practise is called into question ;


• Raise healthcare workers’ morale by appreciating GOOD treatment, and (re-)read my post 29 for helpful links ;


• As for " doctors knowing best ", they should ALL practise " evidence-based " medicine ( giving reasons for diagnosis and treatment ). " Informed consent " is a requirement, meaning they have explained planned treatment BEFORE it is given. If you don’t understand, ask !


http://www.gmc-uk.org/concerns/makin...laint/3841.asp

[mickcant]

For me, I try and see the same lady Dr at my local practice, I tell her the truth with what is happening and trust what she recommends in way of treatment.
Mick.

[Dedworth]

I don't have a problem with 'foreign' doctors if they are good at their job and have the necessary skills and abilities.

I fully agree, we need them because unfortunately as Doc Alan has explained this country is incapable of producing the number of Doctors we require. Sadly 2 young men with bright medical futures were brutally murdered in Borneo yesterday

The purpose of this thread is to highlight the fact that a disproportionate number of Doctors up before the Disciplinary Panel are foreign and many of them should never have been employed by the NHS in the first place

[joebloggs]

Proved me wrong, Many ????

For the sake of good order Joe give us the figures - and I'm talking foreign born "Doctors" not some shyster with a spurious foreign medical qualification on a dodgy student visa who enrolled at a "uni" here whist working as a cashier at the local BP filling station

Have you forgotten about the names of the docs you posted and I told you many of them had done their degree in the UK or Europe

Spurious foreign medical qualification

first of all the Uni has to be recognised by the World Health Authority then the GMC check their degree and background. I know - I've been to the GMC in Manchester twice

[Dedworth]

Have you forgotten about the names of the docs you posted and I told you many of them had done their degree in the UK or Europe

A couple out of the many I've posted - why do you defend these rogues and not accept the fact that disproportionate number of those struck off are foreign

first of all the Uni has to be recognised by the World Health Authority then the GMC check their degree and background. I know - I've been to the GMC in Manchester twice

Nigerians for example are closely associated with scams and forgeries

[Dedworth]

Doctor, 57, struck off for massaging patient's breasts with oil when she went to see him about a whiplash injury

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sh-injury.html

[SimonH]

Hope he gets what he deserves when he's looking for the soap in the prison showers

[Dedworth]

Hope he gets what he deserves when he's looking for the soap in the prison showers

He was jailed in January so I guess unfortunately he's out now http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/1...h_examination/

[joebloggs]

A couple out of the many I've posted - why do you defend these rogues and not accept the fact that disproportionate number of those struck off are foreign

tell me dedworth how YOU can tell whether they are foreign or British, I'd like to know how you can tell

[Dedworth]

tell me dedworth how YOU can tell whether they are foreign or British, I'd like to know how you can tell

The Sex Offender Ayyoub #51 "trained" at University of Punjab
Con Man Elhassan #45 "trained" at University of Khartoum
Convicted perverter of the course of justice Ogwueleka #40 "trained" at Abia State University

That's just the last 3.

The stats are in my favour so I won't bother researching anymore - I'll leave that up to you Joe, you never know you just might find the odd one to catch me out and I'll happily delete them from this thread. What do you think about that then ?

[joebloggs]

You've been caught out before, Dedworth

How can you tell they are not British? Just because they 'trained' in another country doesn't mean they were born there

How many 'foreign' doctors go to British Meds Schools? Are they British ???

[Dedworth]

You've been caught out before, Dedworth

How can you tell they are not British? Just because they 'trained' in another country doesn't mean they were born there

How many 'foreign' doctors go to British Meds Schools? Are they British???

Stop clutching at straws Joe - do British medical students train at non English speaking "Universities" in Karzi States ?

As I said, feel free to check my posts out and I'll delete any that don't meet my criteria on the thread

[joebloggs]

Stop clutching at straws Joe - do British medical students train at non English speaking "Universities" in karzi states ?

As I said, feel free to check my posts out and I'll delete any that don't meet my criteria on the thread

I think you would find many medical degree courses are taught in English

https://imed.faimer.org/details.asp?...4085&psize=100

Can you name some of those 'Karzi' States??

Your thread is 'Doctors in the dock', you've not posted about any British ones yet Dedworth. Having trouble finding any??

[Dedworth]

i think you would find many medical degree courses are taught in English

https://imed.faimer.org/details.asp?...4085&psize=100

can you name some of those 'karzi' states ??

your thread is 'doctors in the dock' you've not posted about any British ones yet dedworth, having trouble finding any ??

I'm not discussing this any further with you, at first I found your nit picking and hair splitting comical, now it is repetitive and tiresome.

I suggest you use your wifes access to BMA, GMC etc and research the names I've posted to see if any are British nationals and while you are at it post in chronological order from now on all struck off Doctors.

As I said to you in post # 11 "Save a bit of time in future though Joe I didn't intend this thread to be purely foreign or foreign trained Docs but to highlight the number of ne'er-do-wells employed in the NHS."

By the way #20 is Scottish

"Karzi states" is my definition of those fostering & harbouring extremists, terrorists, criminals & the like eg Pakistan, Sudan & Nigeria

[Doc Alan]

We need them because unfortunately as Doc Alan has explained this country is incapable of producing the number of Doctors we require.

The purpose of this thread is to highlight the fact that a disproportionate number of Doctors up before the Disciplinary Panel are foreign and many of them should never have been employed by the NHS in the first place

I actually explained that - as there are at least 10 applicants for every place at UK medical schools - this country MAY have the capacity to produce the number of doctors we require, but our graduates don't wish ( and can't be forced ) into essential but unpopular specialties in undesirable locations .


Hindsight is a wonderful thing ! The Leeds graduate Dr Harold Shipman should never have been employed by the NHS in the first place . Unfortunately even he probably didn't know he would turn into the UK's worst serial killer. By the time his surviving patients, colleagues, and the GMC realised, he may well have killed well over 200 patients.


Shipman puts " doctors in the dock " into perspective. As I pointed out in another thread, some good did come out of the Shipman Enquiry. This included more accurate death certification; investigation of deaths by coroners ; regulation of controlled drugs in the community; reform of the GMC including non-medical membership ; and formation of a Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service - also with non-medical membership.


Well done to the MPTS for dealing with " rogue doctors " of whatever nationality Vacancies DO arise on the MPTS both for doctors and " lay members ".


Of the 100 ( + ) recommendations in the Shipman Enquiry, revalidation ( appraisal ) to make sure doctors remain up to date and safe is CRUCIAL, in my opinion. Despite the most careful scrutiny of qualifications by the GMC and at a local level ( job interview ), mistakes may be made, and in any case doctors may fall ill or otherwise change subsequently.


Sadly I have to say NO system is foolproof in preventing another " Shipman ". But it's a good deal less likely now than previously.


As the only doctor regularly contributing to the Forum, I have to say my glass is half full, not half empty ( usually red wine ). I prefer to see the POSITIVE aspects of our NHS, with steady improvements in diagnosis and treatment of so many diseases in my 35 years' working lifetime. There have always been many inspirational doctors and other healthcare workers, of many nationalities, to encourage me in my career . But that's off-topic .