married work permit chaos!

[captainmcrowe]

Please help! Have spent all night looking for help!
My wife stephy passed her life in the uk test and we downloaded the form for indefinate leave to remain as she has been here over five years now.
But to our horror we have just discovered that because she changed her employer in febuary for one closer to our home, she has broken the terms of her work permit. We were unaware of this rule. We thought as she was still doing the same type of job she was ok( senoir care worker nvq 3).
We were told by the home office she is now an illegal immigrant and cannot apply for the indefinate leave to remain. She must now go home to the philippines and apply for extension of stay in the uk as a spouse visa. I asked if we could apply using this form(flrm) in the UK and i was told it would probably be refused as she has broken her terms of work visa. Going back to the philippines would be very costly, and she could now lose a very good job.
Going to see a immagration advisor on the 1st of November for help, or should i book the plane tickets now?
Please help any advice would be great. many thanks for listening.
Mark

[ginapeterb]

Mark

I want you to breathe in and listen very carefully before you start listening to any professional visa experts ok, the advice I am going to give you is accurate and represents your true position.

Sadly and rather irritatingly from the point of view of your situation, your wife has done a rather stupid thing, (dont take it personally)

For someone who is coming up to the 5 year qualification period on a work permit, the last thing that person should be doing is changing the terms of the work permit.

And as you have told us, in February of this year, your wife which I assumed you legitimately married in a UK ceremony which is legally valid, decided to stop working for the employer named on her work permit and take an alternative offer of work with a 2nd employer.

This is where your 2nd employer has let your wife down, they must have known that legally they cannot offer her employment without contacting the Visa work permit section in Doncaster, and had they done so, the work permit would have been refused.

Work permits are only issued to an immigrant on the basis of the employer stated on the permit, and the permit is not transferable to another employer, this has happened to many Filipinos in the past, and they have been caught out trying to switch employers because of things like better pay, better work conditions, the list is endless.

The Home office are working within the rules rigidly, and sadly, your wife has now placed herself in the illegal immigrant category, the fact that she is now married to you, places herself in a different immigration category.

Her stay in the UK is in fact illegal, and there is little you can do about it except bite the bullet and play the game, if you wish for you and your wife to live together again in UK, you must follow the rules to the letter.

If she has received a letter from the Work Permits section at Doncaster telling her she may not receive a new work permit, then be very careful, the longer your wife stays in the UK, the longer she is considered to be overstaying her welcome.

The new employer your wife went to work for is the cause of your problems, had they followed the rules properly and applied for your wife to work for them, the visa would have been rejected in any event, in her work permit it states very clearly who the employer is, you must shoulder some of the blame for your mistakes, yourselves.

Dont bother applying for indefinate leave to remain for the 5 year qualification period for your wife, you will be refused on the basis that she no longer works for the original employer.

When they say, it will probably be refused, it will be refused !

Your first action is to go and see her employer and explain the problem, then if she is a key worker at this employer, I am sure they can understand her situation, and release her from this for a couple of months, whilst she regularizes her stay in the UK.

I see little value in you spending money on going to see an immigration adviser on the 1st November, or seeing the free one, I assume its the Immigrationa advisory service, IAS, they will make all the right noises but you cannot get around the rules.

You asked if you should start booking a plane ticket now, well thats up to you, but the quicker you get her on her way back to Manila, the quicker she will be coming back.

I have seen countless cases like yours, and have been in the Embassy, when a Filipina who has lived in UK for 5 years, has had to go back and apply for a spousal visa, the fact of the matter is, should you comply with the rules, your wife would obtain a spouse visa with little problems, its just a paperwork exercise.

Once your wife receives a spouse visa, she will be valid to come for 24 months and start the process all over again, what a shame, had she remained with the same employer, she would have been a resident shortly.

Should she stay or should she go ?

UWI O HINDI ?

[KeithD]

If she goes now, and files the paperwork as soon as she lands, then in all probability she'll be back by Xmas. You both must supply individual letters explaining what went on, why she changed jobs, apologies, your a re married, etc, etc....and make them both long detailed letters, show some effort.

As Pete says, the blame is basically with her, as the rules are clear, and the same for everyone. Ignorance is not a defense.

[captainmcrowe]

Thank you guys for your help in answering my questions.
We will leave for the Philippines on the 5th of January as we can not get away any earlier than that.
One more question, i read about a fast track service for applying for visa but was not sure if we would qualify and how long this would take? Any ideas? Thank you.

[KeithD]

5th of January

She needs to go NOW

She is an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT, and as the authorities are aware of this, she can be arrested at any time, and then deported. If that happens, it will be even more problems to get her back. You need to be really worried every time you get a knock on the door. She can be imprisoned if she is found ignoring the authorities.

You have been told she has overstayed, and the longer she now takes to go back, the less likely the authorities will favour the paperwork for her to come back.

Send her off on a 'family' visit to the Phil NOW, and get the paperwork in. It may only take a month to go through.

[vbkelly]

She needs to go NOW

She is an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT, and as the authorities are aware of this, she can be arrested at any time, and then deported. If that happens, it will be even more problems to get her back. You need to be really worried every time you get a knock on the door. She can be imprisoned if she is found ignoring the authorities.

You have been told she has overstayed, and the longer she now takes to go back, the less likely the authorities will favour the paperwork for her to come back.

Send her off on a 'family' visit to the Phil NOW, and get the paperwork in. It may only take a month to go through.

oh no!!!

[ginapeterb]

We will leave for the Philippines on the 5th of January

ARAY ANO BA ?

To back up Keith:

She has no legal status in the UK

Her details will already have been passed to Border and Immigration agents, as Keith says, they could be at your house...well any time now ?

Keiths advice is spot on, the longer you take to go back to Phils, the harder it will be for you.

Let me tell you what will happen to your wife if Border and Immigration agents turn up at her place of work !

1. They will take her from her place of work.

2. They will take her to Bedford (Yarlswood detention centre)

3. She will not be able to see you, although you can take her luggage to her and personal items.

4. She wil be deported back to the Philippines.

5. Any future application to enter the United Kingdom could be refused on the basis that your wife was working ilegally in the UK.


Some or all of this could happen, Filipinos who overstay are easier to deport as they are not claiming asylum, and have no recourse to appeal to the Asylum and Immigration appeals tribunal.

Mark you are taking an incredible risk, you might get lucky, and Border and Immigration dont ever both you, but do you want to spend the next 3 months looking over your shoulder.

I wish you well with it, best of luck.

[joebloggs]

yes totally agree with peter and scouser keith, anyway i would never pay for immigration advice, you can get free advice from your local law centre or from the jcw, read this thread

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread.php?t=3107

i don't think you have any option but for your wife to leave asap, and try to avoid leaving from the london airports or get a very early flight, or there is a small chance that your wife could be stopped at a random exit check, where she could be questioned, fingerprinted and given a removal notice, and the fact that your wife has overstayed will be recorded and will affect any future visa applications to the UK.but if she goes asap and doesn't get stopped then the overstay shouldn't effect any future visa app

[kimmi]

this is a very tough situation, but u need to make a decision now than to affect everything in the future..

Goodluck and GOd bless.

[andypaul]

With out bringing you to much doom, just bear in mind. If your wife was God forbid to be ill or injured or for some obscure reasons attracted the attention of the police or authorities due to witness of an accident at work, a witness to a crime etc.

Good luck and im sure the paperwork will be sorted and in a few months your have almost forgotten what the fuss was about.

[Jimbo]

Don’t Panic!

Take your time to prepare your paperwork for submission to the British Embassy in Manila. Make sure that you can prove that you are married and are living together in a close relationship.
You will need utility bills and letters with both your names at the same address. Photos of you together and supporting letters from people confirming your relationship.

Getting this evidence together is more important than being panicked on getting on the next plane.

If you arrive in the Philippines without your supporting evidence it could cause an unnecessary delay. If all your paperwork is in order your application should only take a few weeks. Although it is necessary for you to comply with the regulations as long as you can provide supporting evidence about your relationship/marriage your application for a spouse visa in Manila will be straightforward.

Jim

[captainmcrowe]

We did the honest thing and told Stephy's employer what had happened and asked for leave of absence. Boss was ok but when she talked to HR they told her to terminate Stephy's work contract.
Life is like a box of chocolates and i always pick coffee!
Maybe we should have lied and booked a holiday or career break instead rather than being honest.
Stephy did inform them on her job application she required work permit.(3 times)as she worked her way up in the company.
This is city council run care home you would think they would be up to date with the rules! ( our fault as well i know).
We are getting all the info together ready for the embassy in the Philippines and looking at plane tickets for Monday.
The home office are not looking for Stephy as we only enquired about a general problem filing in the indefinite leave to remain form and we did not give our names and as the work permit does not run out in her passport visa untill April 2008.
Oh well better get stuff ready, thanks every one for their support just wish my wife did not have to leave me, don't know how i will cope without her!

[andypaul]

We did the honest thing and told Stephy's employer what had happened and asked for leave of absence. Boss was ok but when she talked to HR they told her to terminate Stephy's work contract.
Life is like a box of chocolates and i always pick coffee!
Maybe we should have lied and booked a holiday or career break instead rather than being honest.
Stephy did inform them on her job application she required work permit.(3 times)as she worked her way up in the company.
This is city council run care home you would think they would be up to date with the rules! ( our fault as well i know).
We are getting all the info together ready for the embassy in the Philippines and looking at plane tickets for Monday.
The home office are not looking for Stephy as we only enquired about a general problem filing in the indefinite leave to remain form and we did not give our names and as the work permit does not run out in her passport visa untill April 2008.
Oh well better get stuff ready, thanks every one for their support just wish my wife did not have to leave me, don't know how i will cope without her!

I know its very painful now but telling the truth is the best policy.

Getting your Wife back to Phill to apply for a spouse visa and then back here with no worries should not take to long in the grand scheme of things.

Short term pain for long term Happiness and remeber when things are tough the people on this Site are always here ok guv

[captainmcrowe]

At the time of writing i told you guys all the information i was aware of, but remember in panic times we do not always remember every detail. i have been honest. The situation has not changed my wife will still have to go back home and file the spouse visa. By the way the new form VAF4 is ready for download.


With people telling me she should stay and apply and others telling me should go back to philippines and apply our heads feel like they will explode

Anyway it will all be sorted in the end and we are all new at this.
We have gathered all the documents we need, i just have to write my support sponsor letter and she will be able to fly out monday and pay the fee in manila bank hopefully before they are all on holiday for All saints day and All souls day.

Thank you all guys for the letters of support

[jonnijon]

I feel so sorry for both of you,just do as Pete says and get out as soon as you can.
I myself,cant wait to get out of this country and its crazy rules and regulations.Wish you all the very best,and hope all goes well for you both.

John.

[KeithD]

Remember both cover letters for the application, and a bit more than they ask for.....6 wages....supply 8, 3 bills....supply 5....etc.....also a solicitors letter this end to verify the marriage may speed it up....you need to show him the documents as well though.....cost about £50.

Do all that the application will take 1-8 weeks. Turnover is pretty quick at the moment.

[ginapeterb]

Mark

The home office are not looking for Stephy as we only enquired about a general problem filing in the indefinite leave to remain form and we did not give our names and as the work permit does not run out in her passport visa untill April 2008.

As usual someone posts on this forum and whitholds the most important snippet of information, the fact is, we have all panicked on your behalf, and our replies look like a knee jerk reaction, now you have shown your cards, and we find your wife's permit ends on April 2008.

The only thing she has a problem right now with, is that you must have conceded to the Public enquiry line that you wife has changed employer, otherwise they would not have advised you not to present an indefinate leave to remain application.

So working within the strict rules for work permits, the work permit till April 2008 is now invalid, (why did your wife do that almost stupendous thing of changing employer)? when a little patience and grit and determination would have secured her permanent residency status forever, had you just remained calm for a few months more.

There would have been no reason for her not to change employers once permanent residency was granted.

If you ask me, its a crying shame for both of you, now you will have to go through the whole process again, and you are at least 2 and a half years now into the future before you can apply again.

I just wish sometimes Mark people like yourself when they come on this forum and post for help, give the full and true position, (I am not repimanding you) but I find it irritating, as it commits us to giving an opinion when we do not have all the facts.

The fact is now that you have told us the true position, its unlikely that Border and Immigration will be looking for your wife, her visa permit whilst invalid, is likely to be no problem until it runs out, then she enters the Tago ng Tago system of being undocumented and hiding and hiding, if thats the route you want, I suspect you dont want that.

Your lucky in one respect, that in our International airports, there is no exit visa, however your wife could be subject to a spot inspection of her passport, so if she left after April 08 it may cause difficulties.

However on the whole, you should get through this with a minor inconvenience, good luck to you both...

[ginapeterb]

Mark, you are doing the best thing for your wife, congratulations, you are a responsible man, and many of the guys at this forum will respect you.

Best wishes for your wife's flight on Monday, keep coming on forum while yor wife is back in Phils, we will support you mate in everything,

Give your wife our regards wont you, from Gina and Pete...

Best wishes.

[joebloggs]

it amazes me sometimes how little research some people do on applying for a visa and on immigration rules/law, i wouldn't nor never have applied for a visa or made any sort of decision without first phoning IND, asking others on this forum and other forums , the law centre and other immigration advice centres for advice first, and made sure i was doing the right thing, and to get it right first time or as the police say, Ignorance is not a defence, you both should have checked with IND before she quit, i know its late now, just would have taken one phone call.. or a browse on the net...

but wish you both good luck