The good old days

[Terpe]

And sometimes wrongly

[Dedworth]

And sometimes wrongly

Very rarely - perhaps not have death as mandatory but certainly where there is irrefutable proof or confession

[Terpe]

Very rarely....

Derek Bentley 1953. Posthumously pardoned in 1993.

Ruth Ellis. After a 14 minute deliberation of the jury. Manslaughter due to extreme provocation was denied despite years of violent abuse and a miscarriage just before the killing caused by being punched her in the stomach.
Sadly diminished responsibility was not within legislation at that time.

Timothy Evans 1950. It was later discovered that the murder of his wife and daughter was committed by his neighbour. A serial killer named John Christie.
A Royal pardon (posthumously) granted in 1966.

George Kelly 1950. Conviction overturned in 2003.

Mahmood Hussein Mattan 1952. Crucial eyewitness evidence omitted from court. Court of Appeal 1998 found the case “demonstrably flawed”.

I'm not totally against capital punishment, but how to be sure it's not against innocent people.

Hardly the good old days IMO
Maybe these days we have a better chance of avoiding errors but the question is how?

Personally I'd rather see them face a future of misery behind bars without chance of parole rather than a humane end to life.

I don't accept the deterrent argument either.

[fred]

Derek Bentley 1953.Posthumously pardoned in 1993.

Ruth Ellis. After a 14 minute deliberation of the jury. Manslaughter due to extreme provocation was denied despite years of violent abuse and a miscarriage just before the killing caused by being punched her in the stomach.
Sadly diminished responsibility was not within legislation at that time.

Timothy Evans 1950. It was later discovered that the murder of his wife and daughter was committed by his neighbour. A serial killer named John Christie.
A Royal pardon (posthumously) granted in 1966.

George Kelly 1950. Conviction overturned in 2003.

Mahmood Hussein Mattan 1952. Crucial eyewitness evidence omitted from court. Court of Appeal 1998 found the case “demonstrably flawed”.

I'm not totally against capital punishment , but how to be sure it's not against innocent people.

Hardly the good old days IMO
Maybe these days we have a better chance of avoiding errors but the question is how?

Personally I'd rather see them face a future of misery behind bars without chance of parole rather than a humane end to life.

I don't accept the deterrent argument either.

Excellent points made there Peter and I agree with them all.



We should let the dust settle with guys like this in prison and then leave the rest with hardened life convicts to sort.. A slow tortured existence without ever knowing if its safe to even drink a cup of coffee in case it's laced with ground glass..
Death is a luxury they don't deserve.
At least then, the wrongly convicted have a chance.
The Birmingham 6 would testify to that and countless others.

[Jamesey]

Derek Bentley 1953. Posthumously pardoned in 1993.

Ruth Ellis. After a 14 minute deliberation of the jury. Manslaughter due to extreme provocation was denied despite years of violent abuse and a miscarriage just before the killing caused by being punched her in the stomach.
Sadly diminished responsibility was not within legislation at that time.

Timothy Evans 1950. It was later discovered that the murder of his wife and daughter was committed by his neighbour. A serial killer named John Christie.
A Royal pardon (posthumously) granted in 1966.

George Kelly 1950. Conviction overturned in 2003.

Mahmood Hussein Mattan 1952. Crucial eyewitness evidence omitted from court. Court of Appeal 1998 found the case “demonstrably flawed”.

I'm not totally against capital punishment, but how to be sure it's not against innocent people.

Hardly the good old days IMO
Maybe these days we have a better chance of avoiding errors but the question is how?

Personally I'd rather see them face a future of misery behind bars without chance of parole rather than a humane end to life.

I don't accept the deterrent argument either.

Good post.

Capital punishment is wrong and has no place in a civilised society.

[Doc Alan]

Very rarely - perhaps not have death as mandatory but certainly where there is irrefutable proof or confession

Dr Harold Shipman was jailed 14 years before your " Doctors in the Dock " thread - for killing 15 of his patients ( and probably at least 200 more ). This British GP, a graduate of Leeds Medical School, was the UK's worst serial killer. He was found hanging in his cell 4 years later.


This ONE evil doctor may put into context the " disproportionate number of foreign doctors struck off " in more recent years.

Sadly nothing guarantees that the UK could not have another " Dr Shipman " , but many changes for the better followed the recommendations of the " Shipman Enquiry ".


These did NOT include punishment by hanging, but DID improve death certification ; investigation of deaths by Coroners ; and regulation of controlled drugs in the community; with a radical shake up of the GMC such that it would include non-medical members, and formation of the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service, also with non-medical members. Doctors are now regularly " revalidated " ( appraised ) to ensure they're up to date and safe.

[Dedworth]

Dr Harold Shipman was jailed 14 years before your " Doctors in the Dock " thread - for killing 15 of his patients ( and probably at least 200 more ). This British GP, a graduate of Leeds Medical School, was the UK's worst serial killer. He was found hanging in his cell 4 years later.


This ONE evil doctor may put into context the " disproportionate number of foreign doctors struck off " in more recent years.

Sadly nothing guarantees that the UK could not have another " Dr Shipman " , but many changes for the better followed the recommendations of the " Shipman Enquiry ".


These did NOT include punishment by hanging, but DID improve death certification ; investigation of deaths by Coroners ; and regulation of controlled drugs in the community; with a radical shake up of the GMC such that it would include non-medical members, and formation of the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service, also with non-medical members. Doctors are now regularly " revalidated " ( appraised ) to ensure they're up to date and safe.

Thanks Doc - I heard a radio programme a couple of years ago where (as you say) they were speculating there could have been dozens more victims. Wasn't it another Doctor who figured out that Shipman always certified his own patients dead ?