Electricity supply and domestic wiring in the Philippines

[lordna]

As an ex electrician and qualified electrical engineer, I have recently been taking an interest in how they seem to be doing things in the Philippines. From what I can gather most places are fed by overhead lines and each household provides its own earth. This is what is termed a TT (Terra to Terra) system in the UK and is normally found in rural situations.

Here in the UK with TT systems, in order to provide a rapid disconnection of the supply in the event of a live to earth fault, a RCD (REsidual Current Device) is used as compulsory. I believe this is known as Ground fault interruption in the Philippines, but i get the feeling this is as rare as hens teeth.

The risk of electric shock seems far greater in the philippines than with an installation here.

I would love to hear of forum members experiences with how houses they have lived in or built have been wired, what sort of shock protection measures are in place etc and how they deal with the fluctuations in voltage due to constant "brown outs".

[jonnijon]

You must use AVR for your appliances . As I understand it the steel cable that supports the power cable from the overhead pole is the earth, or ground as they call it here. Fred is a long time expat so he might have more info.

[fred]

You must use AVR for your appliances . As I understand it the steel cable that supports the power cable from the overhead pole is the earth, or ground as they call it here. Fred is a long time expat so he might have more info.

I am a complete dumbo when it comes to electricity so I doubt that I can answer any questions with any real confidence!
The steel cable is only there to protect the main power cable as far as I am aware. The electric plan we had was pretty standard live and neutral only..They tell us that the earth protection is a rod below in the main line posts.
We upgraded our electrical plan and have an earth wire connected to earth rods that we installed beside the septic tank..I think we tied two of them (about 6 ft long each) to the tanks rebar.. Think this is called an ufer ground? All the wire in the building is THHN except the connection between the new transformer a and the mains box which is TWN.
All our units have a separate fuse box with trip switch fuses as well as the main fuse box.
Sorry..Thats all I can tell you really!

[lordna]

I am a complete dumbo when it comes to electricity so I doubt that I can answer any questions with any real confidence!
The steel cable is only there to protect the main power cable as far as I am aware. The electric plan we had was pretty standard live and neutral only..They tell us that the earth protection is a rod below in the main line posts.
We upgraded our electrical plan and have an earth wire connected to earth rods that we installed beside the septic tank..I think we tied two of them (about 6 ft long each) to the tanks rebar.. Think this is called an ufer ground? All the wire in the building is THHN except the connection between the new transformer a and the mains box which is TWN.
All our units have a separate fuse box with trip switch fuses as well as the main fuse box.
Sorry..Thats all I can tell you really!

Fred, thanks for your response.
Yes, the steel cable, here called a catenary wire, should be to support the power cable, and i should think connected to earth at the consumers end. Earthing of your installation i would expect to be by earth rods or connecting to the rebar. The steel cable would not be to carry earth fault currents back to the suppliers transformer as this is done via the earth or ground. One side of the suppliers transformer would also be earthed thus giving a "circuit" between the consumers earth rod, through the ground, back to the transformer via the suppliers earth rod. The problem is this "circuit" can have a high resistance, particularly if the ground is dry so that if an earth fault exists in the consumers property, the fault current will not be high (due to the high resistance) and a dangerous voltage could exist until such time as the circuit breaker trips out. The circuit breaker may not trip out. This problem (in the UK) is solved by using RCD's which detect an imbalance in the live and neutral currents and so trip out before a dangerous voltage can exist which could kill. RCD's fitted here in the UK can trip out at a fault as quickly as 0.4 seconds. I would recommend you think about getting RCD's fitted.
I have recently been given an outline estimate for wiring a new property and was horrified when i saw the list of cable, which seems VERY over rated (30a cable for lighting etc) and very large breakers presumably to protect the cable BUT very little consideration to those using the building who might get a shock!

[fred]

Fred, thanks for your response.
Yes, the steel cable, here called a catenary wire, should be to support the power cable, and i should think connected to earth at the consumers end. Earthing of your installation i would expect to be by earth rods or connecting to the rebar. The steel cable would not be to carry earth fault currents back to the suppliers transformer as this is done via the earth or ground. One side of the suppliers transformer would also be earthed thus giving a "circuit" between the consumers earth rod, through the ground, back to the transformer via the suppliers earth rod. The problem is this "circuit" can have a high resistance, particularly if the ground is dry so that if an earth fault exists in the consumers property, the fault current will not be high (due to the high resistance) and a dangerous voltage could exist until such time as the circuit breaker trips out. The circuit breaker may not trip out. This problem (in the UK) is solved by using RCD's which detect an imbalance in the live and neutral currents and so trip out before a dangerous voltage can exist which could kill. RCD's fitted here in the UK can trip out at a fault as quickly as 0.4 seconds. I would recommend you think about getting RCD's fitted.
I have recently been given an outline estimate for wiring a new property and was horrified when i saw the list of cable, which seems VERY over rated (30a cable for lighting etc) and very large breakers presumably to protect the cable BUT very little consideration to those using the building who might get a shock!

Thanks for the RCD suggestion..I`ll look into it and ask around..
That said,we have had our units in manila for 10 years now without killing anybody so it might be hard to persuade the Mrs its necessary!
Not sure what the rating for our electrical lighting cable is but I`m told its #14.
When I have time,I will take some pictures of our main post and transformer and consumer boxes etc here for your inspection!..

[Michael Parnham]

I did notice over many years that in the Philippines the light switches in most hotels are inside the bathrooms!

[imagine]

I did notice over many years that in the Philippines the light switches in most hotels are inside the bathrooms!

yes light switches inside bathrooms, i had my electrician install them outside the door

[lordna]

yes light switches inside bathrooms, i had my electrician install them outside the door

Within reach of the bath or shower too?

[imagine]

yes the steel support wire for the overhead cable is also used as the earth, im told in case of lightning, we have had installed a transformer accross the main road, the cable runs overhead of the main road to our property, we had to install our own earth from that , required by the besico electric company, it is connected to the steel wire with clamps using the same steel wire as supports the overhead cable, we bought the ground rod installed and connected to that, this is not the earth for the wiring in the property,
most of the electricians do not know what an earth is or what its for, they say the negative is your ground,

the electrical work is shocking,, (pardon my pun) all 30amp wiring for lights and for sockets though run off seperate fuses, you can not connect this thick wiring into light fittings, they put 2 short pices of thin wire to the connectors then insulation tape the ends to the circuit wires, all joints are taped inside what they call junction boxes,( orange color boxes with no terminals inside)

it just wouldnt pass as safe in uk

[lordna]

yes the steel support wire for the overhead cable is also used as the earth, im told in case of lightning, we have had installed a transformer accross the main road, the cable runs overhead of the main road to our property, we had to install our own earth from that , required by the besico electric company, it is connected to the steel wire with clamps using the same steel wire as supports the overhead cable, we bought the ground rod installed and connected to that, this is not the earth for the wiring in the property,
most of the electricians do not know what an earth is or what its for, they say the negative is your ground,

the electrical work is shocking,, (pardon my pun) all 30amp wiring for lights and for sockets though run off seperate fuses, you can not connect this thick wiring into light fittings, they put 2 short pices of thin wire to the connectors then insulation tape the ends to the circuit wires, all joints are taped inside what they call junction boxes,( orange color boxes with no terminals inside)

it just wouldnt pass as safe in uk

Thanks for your response, some i have touched on in my reply to Fred.
Interesting how they connect into fittings with oversized cables as it wouldn't pass here in the UK. I notice they don't seem to worry about supplementary bonding ie making sure all metalwork is at the same potential by connecting it to earth.

Assume AVR is some sort of voltage regulator? ...as the mother in laws tv blew up the other week after a brown out. I'm pretty sure they don't have any regulator.

There is something called "The philippines Electrical code" which is their equivalent to the IEE regulations here but its not easy reading. I would assume a qualified electrician here would not be "certified" to design installations there even though our standards are clearly much much higher.

[imagine]

its scary how they install the electrics,

my bro inlaw here is an electrical engineer , more than an elecricians qualifications, he helped design our system , but it still doesnt stop the installer doing the work bad,

yes its a voltage regulator that's needed some are expensive depending on how many appliances you want to run from the one, and how many amps it needs ect, i guess you can get smaller ones, for individual like tv, computor ect

[Terpe]

I've got voltage regulators, RCD' s and surge protectors everywhere after having all sorts of problems with various appliances, TV's and sound systems.

I just can't figure out why so many electricians are still alive here.
I'm no electrician by any means but I do understand the basics and that's not applied here by the majority of people in the trade.
When you begin to question it you get a smile and a that's how it's done here.

Interestingly, whenever you buy any electrical equipment the shop will always check it's working by plugging it into a protected circuit to prove it's OK before you take it home and plug it into your residential system.
You can try as much as you want to exchange or get a refund in the event it doesn't work at home but you'll not get anywhere.

[imagine]

hhmmmm its more fun in the Philippines

[jonnijon]

Never had a problem exchanging a product, as long as you do it in the stores time frame. Light bulbs for instance, if you buy Firefly they have a 1 year warranty, but you must keep the receipt.

[fred]

Never had a problem exchanging a product, as long as you do it in the stores time frame. Light bulbs for instance, if you buy Firefly they have a 1 year warranty, but you must keep the receipt.

The biggest problem we have about returns is that the receipts tend to fade and become unreadable..We now have them all photo copied!
Just bought some LED bulbs that are guaranteed for 5 years!!!!! Might get the receipts laminated!

[Arthur Little]

The biggest problem we have about returns is that the receipts tend to fade and become unreadable..

.............. 's always the snag with receipts ... !

[jonnijon]

The LEDs are the problem, second one out of three I have to take back.

[Michael Parnham]

Rather frightening living in the Philippines

[fred]

Rather frightening living in the Philippines

I`m scared to death now.
Perhaps I should get tickets back to the U.K for safety reasons.
Actually now I think about it though....
I`d rather die quickly from electric shock!

[Michael Parnham]

I`m scared to death now.
Perhaps I should get tickets back to the U.K for safety reasons.
Actually now I think about it though....
I`d rather die quickly from electric shock!

Understand what you say Fred, love it. Good thread this, I wonder what else will be uncovered

[lordna]

I`m scared to death now.
Perhaps I should get tickets back to the U.K for safety reasons.
Actually now I think about it though....
I`d rather die quickly from electric shock!

I hate to frighten you further Fred but death from electric shock isn't always fast. When i was an apprentice they used to show us films/pictures of people who had been electrocuted. The pictures were taken over a period of time, the first ones showing just a small mark on the skin where the electricity entered and similar on its exit. The electric current follows the water courses through the body (ie blood vessels). After a while gangrene sets in and the small entry and exit points start to show scarring and decay. Left untreated its not nice as I am sure the Doc will confirm

[raynaputi]

I hate to frighten you further Fred but death from electric shock isn't always fast. When i was an apprentice they used to show us films/pictures of people who had been electrocuted. The pictures were taken over a period of time, the first ones showing just a small mark on the skin where the electricity entered and similar on its exit. The electric current follows the water courses through the body(ie blood vessels). After a while gangrene sets in and the small entry and exit points start to show scarring and decay. Left untreated its not nice as I am sure the Doc will confirm

My mum suffered 2 electric shocks as a teen. Once when she was hanging clothes on the roof of our house in Laguna (I forgot the other one). My uncle found her after 10 mins looking like a rag doll hanging thru her elbows. Mama said that when she got home from the hospital, she couldn't feel anything at all for a week or so other than when they touched her toes. And like you said about marks, my mum still have the visible marks/scars of it on her elbow. A remembrance.

[fred]

Lordna..
Here`s a web page I think will interest you.. It was written by a yank whilst his house was being wired..
http://myphilippinelife.com/philippi...trical-wiring/

[Terpe]

Lordna..
Here`s a web page I think will interest you.. It was written by a yank whilst his house was being wired..
http://myphilippinelife.com/philippi...trical-wiring/

I bookmarked that link fred
Very interesting and a good read too.
Cheers

[fred]

We went to the Electrical supply in town today and they do sell RCD`s..
I`d like to have them fitted but to replace all 8 units of panel boards and all the bolt on trip fuses at this time is out of the question.. (only fitted a few months ago}
We will replace them eventually unit by unit but the expense involved to do the whole place would cost more than we can budget for right now. Cheap,they aint!!!
Thanks for the advice..

[SimonH]

What size RCD's do you want, it might be cheaper to have them sent from here

http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-10-way...xGEaAkva8P8HAQ

[fred]

Thanks Simon..I`ll ask tomorrow.. Might have them sent over in this years bb box.

[fred]

One thing I dont want is for these things to keep tripping every 5 mins due to constant power surges..
The guy in the Electrical shop did mention this.. I think I`ll ask foreigners here that have them in resorts etc to see what RCD fuse sizes they use here for A/C`s, Hot water shower heaters etc.. I reckon a 6 amp lighting RCD fuse would trip 3-4 times a day here!!

[SimonH]

I'm not an electrician, but can't you fit a surge protector?

[fred]

I'm not an electrician, but can't you fit a surge protector?

We bought a surge protector rated for 2000 watts for our jack hammer..It cost 3k (made in China)
Thing tripped out every 10 minutes or so..I didn't mind that so much as the worker could reset it in seconds..
That RCD unit you linked too does pretty much the same job anyway by the sounds of it.
I just cant have tenants and tourists keep complaining about their power going on and off because of extra sensitive fuses..
There is probably a sensible and practical solution..I just need to find out what that is.