Cameron Backtracks On Pre Election Pledges

[Iani]

At the end of the day you will have a choice in or out basically - how can he be a fraud
It will be up to the public.
Like the general Election - they got that right and deserted Labour

My reasoning on him being a fraud are

He is painting himself as wanting big concessions from the rest of the EU. He isn't asking much. He wants to limit benefits paid to migrants, which could be resolved by internal laws anyway. He wants protection for the financial markets, again there isn't really the threat, nothing an internal law and being better than the competition wouldn't solve. He wants to limit migration from new member states until their economy was more on a par with the rest of the existing EU........well this is likely to happen anyway as many other states were stung last time, and besides who will be next to join? Nobody is on course for this for many years. Turkey won't join as too many other states are against this.

He will demand these, the other states will in private breath a huge sigh of relief that it's all he wants, he will come back here and run a referendum stating he has these massive concessions when he's got nothing of the sort, and he's "fixed" the referendum by making sure the postive "yes" vote will be to stay in............exactly what he wants.

To put it another way, he saw a threat from UKIP. He saw his power base being chipped away, so he's pretended to be anti-EU to head off a UKIP threat. He knows damned well there will be no vote to come out, he will make sure of that.

He COULD on the other hand have demanded associate membership, similar to Norways but a bit closer, other states would have agreed to this rather than totally lose the UK (And their massive massive contributions/market for their goods), but this isn't what he wants. He's only having this referendum, which he will make damned sure goes his way, because voters dared to potentially vote against his re-election.

The biggest proof is that the "yes" option will be for the status quo, very different to convention on such matters. The other proof - his "demands" are very minor changes indeed. I'd be more impressed if he demanded an opt-out from free movement

[Dedworth]

Interesting article by Daniel Hannan MEP which confirms a lot of what Iani has correctly said :

Say no to the scaremongers: Already the referendum doom merchants are lining up to insist Britain can't survive outside the EU. Twaddle, says leading MEP Daniel Hannan

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3beaLU0R9

[KeithD]

Well, if Cameron gets any concessions, it'll be more than what Labour would have got. He's still a stuck up plonker though

[Trefor]

I can never understand this issue 'people' have with 'posh' people. They didn't choose where they went to school, their parents did. Depending on your perspective they were either lucky or unlucky in early life.

I was born in S London and dragged up in Scunthorpe (the only town with *unt in it's name), yet I have no issue with 'posh people'. Once you travel the world a bit you realise we are all the same inside. Take people for what they have made of themselves.

Just saying...

[les_taxi]

My reasoning on him being a fraud are

He is painting himself as wanting big concessions from the rest of the EU. He isn't asking much. He wants to limit benefits paid to migrants, which could be resolved by internal laws anyway. He wants protection for the financial markets, again there isn't really the threat, nothing an internal law and being better than the competition wouldn't solve. He wants to limit migration from new member states until their economy was more on a par with the rest of the existing EU........well this is likely to happen anyway as many other states were stung last time, and besides who will be next to join? Nobody is on course for this for many years. Turkey won't join as too many other states are against this.

He will demand these, the other states will in private breath a huge sigh of relief that it's all he wants, he will come back here and run a referendum stating he has these massive concessions when he's got nothing of the sort, and he's "fixed" the referendum by making sure the postive "yes" vote will be to stay in............exactly what he wants.

To put it another way, he saw a threat from UKIP. He saw his power base being chipped away, so he's pretended to be anti-EU to head off a UKIP threat. He knows damned well there will be no vote to come out, he will make sure of that.

He COULD on the other hand have demanded associate membership, similar to Norways but a bit closer, other states would have agreed to this rather than totally lose the UK (And their massive massive contributions/market for their goods), but this isn't what he wants. He's only having this referendum, which he will make damned sure goes his way, because voters dared to potentially vote against his re-election.

The biggest proof is that the "yes" option will be for the status quo, very different to convention on such matters. The other proof - his "demands" are very minor changes indeed. I'd be more impressed if he demanded an opt-out from free movement

Well you have researched it well fair enough, but my main complaint about the title of the thread still stands. The title indicates he is not following his pre-election promises - he is as he promised an in out option and no matter what you say that's what we will get. That is my argument

[les_taxi]

I can never understand this issue 'people' have with 'posh' people. They didn't choose where they went to school, their parents did. Depending on your perspective they were either lucky or unlucky in early life.

I was born in S London and dragged up in Scunthorpe (the only town with *unt in it's name), yet I have no issue with 'posh people'. Once you travel the world a bit you realise we are all the same inside. Take people for what they have made of themselves.

Just saying...

I agree so many people jealous of what richer people have! Not me at all, I'm quite happy being a hard worker and having occasional treats. That's how it is for most of us. Gives you something to aim for and as I have said no-one owes you a living - make your own way in life. I don't see many of us giving all we have to some homeless person, we just carry on as normal. Now if someone on the Forum who complains about the rich gives away his big tv, mobile and car away you will impress me, but you won't.

[Ako Si Jamie]

I can never understand this issue 'people' have with 'posh' people. They didn't choose where they went to school, their parents did. Depending on your perspective they were either lucky or unlucky in early life.

I was born in S London and dragged up in Scunthorpe (the only town with *unt in it's name), yet I have no issue with 'posh people'. Once you travel the world a bit you realise we are all the same inside. Take people for what they have made of themselves.

Just saying...

Not posh people as such but snobs. This is because they look down their noses at others and have a similar mentality to that of a white supremacist or those radical religious freaks - they think they're so superior

Most people wouldn't have a problem with those who speak posh so long as they came across as likeable. Princess Di, and Prince William and his missus are fine examples.

[London_Manila]

At the end of the day you will have a choice in or out basically - how can he be a fraud
It will be up to the public.
Like the general Election - they got that right and deserted Labour

As long as both the yes and no campaigns receive the same amount of money for their advertising leading up to the vote

[London_Manila]

I can never understand this issue 'people' have with 'posh' people. They didn't choose where they went to school, their parents did. Depending on your perspective they were either lucky or unlucky in early life.

I was born in S London and dragged up in Scunthorpe (the only town with *unt in it's name), yet I have no issue with 'posh people'. Once you travel the world a bit you realise we are all the same inside. Take people for what they have made of themselves.

Just saying...

Of course i agree my problem is when the Tory Party is full of posh privileged people and then masquerades itself as a party for working people

[London_Manila]

Well you have researched it well fair enough, but my main complaint about the title of the thread still stands. The title indicates he is not following his pre-election promises - he is as he promised an in out option and no matter what you say that's what we will get. That is my argument

Of course Less but what about the other promise he made about withdrawing the Uk from the European Human rights agreement ?

[London_Manila]

I agree so many people jealous of what richer people have! Not me at all, I'm quite happy being a hard worker and having occasional treats. That's how it is for most of us. Gives you something to aim for and as I have said no-one owes you a living - make your own way in life. I don't see many of us giving all we have to some homeless person, we just carry on as normal. Now if someone on the Forum who complains about the rich gives away his big tv, mobile and car away you will impress me, but you won't.

Sorry Les i feel you might be driving your Taxi for many millions of miles before you reach the wealth of the likes of Cameron and Johnson

[London_Manila]

Well, if Cameron gets any concessions, it'll be more than what Labour would have got. He's still a stuck up plonker though

We need to regain control over our borders again and Cameron has already been told thats not even up for discussion. Delaying benefits payments to the European migrants is not going to stem the tide.

[Michael Parnham]

I agree so many people jealous of what richer people have! Not me at all, I'm quite happy being a hard worker and having occasional treats. That's how it is for most of us. Gives you something to aim for and as I have said no-one owes you a living - make your own way in life. I don't see many of us giving all we have to some homeless person, we just carry on as normal. Now if someone on the Forum who complains about the rich gives away his big tv, mobile and car away you will impress me, but you won't.

The more affluent you are the bigger your bills, lots of people with money have more worries in life also, but they never talk about their debts and other problems in life!

[KeithD]

Delaying benefits payments to the European migrants is not going to stem the tide.

That's the reason all the illegal migrants give for wanting to access the UK, while passing through many other EU countries they could remain in. Stop the 'free' money, and the incentive goes away.

[Ako Si Jamie]

The more affluent you are the bigger your bills, lots of people with money have more worries in life also, but they never talk about their debts and other problems in life!

If they stopped competing in a race that never ends and learnt to appreciate what they have, maybe they'd be a lot happier.

[Dedworth]

Of course i agree my problem is when the Tory Party is full of posh privileged people and then masquerades itself as a party for working people

Were the likes of Major, Thatcher and Tebbit born with silver spoons in their mouths?

[Ako Si Jamie]

[Trefor]

That's the reason all the illegal migrants give for wanting to access the UK, while passing through many other EU countries they could remain in. Stop the 'free' money, and the incentive goes away.

Not completely true. The UK has been a multi-cultural society for hundreds of years, possibly a bit too multi-cultural now but that's another discussion. Immigrants are accepted into society in the UK, much less so in France or Germany. Just look at the social/racial divide in France. Benefits help, but the language, social/racism and other issues play a bigger factor IMHO.

[Trefor]

Of course Less but what about the other promise he made about withdrawing the Uk from the European Human rights agreement ?

Yes, I do want this to happen. See my earlier post about the UK Bill of Rights. Trouble is the SNP MPs and the House of Lords will veto Cameron's efforts. What to do? Work in the background and try to remove their objections (apart from the SNP who I'm afraid seem to be a completely self-serving bunch of ar5es so far, but I'd love to be proved wrong).

[London_Manila]

Were the likes of Major, Thatcher and Tebbit born with silver spoons in their mouths?

There will always be a few exceptions