IT people..anyone??

[Juana]

Is there anyone here who is in the IT department who could give an advice to a filipino who's new to the country with regards to what particular job he/she should seek to be able to get on the career ladder?

I know someone who is a graduate of Computer Engineering from the Phils however, she has no actual work experience at all within the field. Graduated not so long ago. She had some trainings in some good companies and that's about it. She just didn't have the chance to get a job since it's very competitive and actually she runs a family business.

If anyone there who could share something, please let me know.
Thanks in advance!

Joan

[andypaul]

In the UK people with IT qualfications are everywhere, what people really need are niche skills and /or out in the real world experience.
Every day i will meet a paper it engineer basically crammed for the exams but has no practical skills.

IT is a big field what area does someone specialize in?

[joebloggs]

maybe your friend should find out what her degree is equivalent to in the UK.

http://www.naric.org.uk/personal/


andypaul, at least the paper IT, knows what to do, but doesn't know how to do it, while your non paper IT knows what to do, but not why


i've spent my life wondering what to do in IT, and still clueless

[andypaul]

Some paper it peeps can quote me allsorts of intresting details on technolgy 3 years old or more as most material and equipment is never bang up to date. I have hnc, a+, n+, s+, mcsa, mcse and a bucket load more but learned loads more on the job. The problem is the ones who have used cram and brain dump sites to get mcp exams and have long list of certs but never learned what it all means.so now most employers will test both theory and pratical skills while also still prefering a few years of work experience.

[KeithD]

Programmers & Excel/Access VBA users are needed, but then by law we get them from Europe.

[joebloggs]

Some paper it peeps can quote me allsorts of intresting details on technolgy 3 years old or more as most material and equipment is never bang up to date. I have hnc, a+, n+, s+, mcsa, mcse and a bucket load more but learned loads more on the job. The problem is the ones who have used cram and brain dump sites to get mcp exams and have long list of certs but never learned what it all means.so now most employers will test both theory and pratical skills while also still prefering a few years of work experience.

true about the paper mcse's years ago, i was one of them , well kinda, did the first few like a good boy and then thought this, i'll just skim thru the books and do the dumps ..., but microsoft now used adaptive testing, harder to cheat...

wether your technology is 3 or 30yrs old, still the same basic principles, i use to programme video games in the early 80's and basics still the same, and so are most trouble shooting techniques, i've not done any micro cert since i failed the upgrade from nt4 to win 2000 ( what an exam 3 or 4 in 1 - a real son of a , no breaks, the book was like 1500 pages , i think more than 70% failed), what 7 years ago ,

well seeing that work put a in charge of our IT !!, i've had to sort basic stuff out he can't do, never used win 2k3 server or much of win2k , but most of it is the same from the nt4 days, just active dir now.

have you got a current mcse andypaul? and what type of work do you do ? have you done vista yet? was thinking about it, or maybe i'll wait for server 2008,,,,

scouser keith, you must have done some sql , worse subject i ever did on the O/U put me to sleep

[KeithD]

I learnt PHP/MySQL two months ago myself, and reprogrammed my racing and article sites to be dynamic. It's easy.

[andypaul]

true about the paper mcse's years ago, i was one of them , well kinda, did the first few like a good boy and then thought this, i'll just skim thru the books and do the dumps ..., but microsoft now used adaptive testing, harder to cheat...

wether your technology is 3 or 30yrs old, still the same basic principles, i use to programme video games in the early 80's and basics still the same, and so are most trouble shooting techniques, i've not done any micro cert since i failed the upgrade from nt4 to win 2000 ( what an exam 3 or 4 in 1 - a real son of a , no breaks, the book was like 1500 pages , i think more than 70% failed), what 7 years ago ,

well seeing that work put a in charge of our IT !!, i've had to sort basic stuff out he can't do, never used win 2k3 server or much of win2k , but most of it is the same from the nt4 days, just active dir now.

have you got a current mcse andypaul? and what type of work do you do ? have you done vista yet? was thinking about it, or maybe i'll wait for server 2008,,,,

scouser keith, you must have done some sql , worse subject i ever did on the O/U put me to sleep

i do as little work as possible now days, i don't do much hands on yes i have vista mcps 70620 and 70621 have a few more to do but in no great hurry like i have said leave Vista to mature before getting involved. i did the beta which like you a little bit of reading what was avaaible at the time, a bit of hands on and using experince of previous mcp exams and ms os. I also hold as some people like to put it mcp, mcsa security, mcse security 2003, and loads of compita exams and a few other vendor exams.

Dont get me wrong exams are useful and and show you can answer questions. When i did my hnd in computing (I also did electronics hnd as well) both really didn't teach me much that i use today i can say hand on heart. In fact at first they held me back, the technology was just to out of date.

Most important thing i learned back in college a electronics teacher who said don't try and hold it in your head, its a waste of time just know how to find out the infomation you need at that moment in time. Never a wiser few words said i have found.Met many people who try to memorize the network layers and can quote me all of them but at 5 pm or later they are still ringing me and others asking for help as the customer doesn't realy care about the osi layers and that the transport layers number 4. They just need things working so they can do their job. That or they need someone who can deal with the situation i know in many cases i can leave the customer with the problem still there but they know its being dealt with so content.


My company has its own range of internal certfication which the managment think is great there are bucket loads of exams and to show what i thought of them i took them all doing a couple each lunch beak or here and there. I just blagged my way though some of the exams and passed them all over a couple of months why because i had plenty of hands on experience in the field.

That was the point i was trying to make i didn't need courses or to read all the books i need to see problems and issues in the real world and then you just natrually learn the best way from experience.
Im sure when the server at work has crashed and the "IT" expert is in meltdown, because you have the experince you review what has happened and like you say trouble shoot which mostly is common sense and back to basic stuff. All our star workers were trained up from the basics they may have had a degree they may have only a few gcses but all learned more on the job. They basically had apprenctiships which still happens in many jobs where you have to get it right the first time even in medcine once you passed your exams you basically become a apprenctice for a good few years.

Only today a customer asked me how long i had worked in the trade they didn't say what qualfications do you have and this happens alot.

So getting back to the orginal question Joan experince is what most of the companies are looking for i find if in a area where there is a big shortage they will take on people and train them up but the UK at the moment has a shortage of trained people avaiable but people are to scared to comit due to employment laws unless they have experience gather elsewhere.
it would be tough for a phill to get a work visa for the Uk with just a Computing degree unless the company hiring can show that this person is the only person they can employ who understands there computer system which sadly i think is unlikely.

I would advise them to get some vendor certs ms, cisco, comptia, novell, citrix,sun microsystems, linux, or infosec.

What do they find of intrest in computing or find they are best qualified to work in?

[nigel]

There is a company based in London (they've also got another office, can't remember where) they are called Ceco http://www.cercoitrecruitment.co.uk/ I once approached Cerco 'cause they do IT training course's (eeek their expensive too!!) once you've completed a course they act as an employment agency and find work for you. They might just put you on their books straight away if your already qualified.
I found Cerco were very friendly and professional, they probably try to talk you into doing one of their course's though, and they're not cheap!! Eeek! I think they're worth contacting though, they might give you some good advice... http://www.cercotraining.co.uk/index.asp

[joebloggs]

only thing with companies like cerco, i would have thought your chances of them getting you a job are low, who would employ someone who's done a few weeks or months course ? . i def wouldn't let them near my servers !, your right experience you can't buy. I've been in It since the early 80's , spent a couple of years doing video games, anyone ever have a vic-20 ? or c16 ?? . then 10 years working for an IT brokers, and the last 5+ years as a printer tec, but if i ever see another printer, i'm gonna go ...

need to get back into being an IT tec or as an admin. in the last couple of months i've been to a couple of customers, and thier person in charge on IT , clueless , who the has employed them, must be good blaggers, they cannot even config the atribs on a printer driver got me to go 16 miles to do it

as for holding it in your head, i think once you master something you can never forget it !, its been 23 yrs since i did any 6502 assembley language , but i could still do it now that's sad

i think it's time i put server 2003 on me old compaq proliant dl320 and start the new year looking for a new job in support or as a tec... blag i might a bit, but at least i can do some of it ...

and as for the osi, never needed that, what was it physical layer... oh theres an ap layer at the top .... oh presentation level ... all you need is ping and ipconfig

andypaul you think its worth me doing xp desktop support and the apps one ? or do the vista ?? i've heard microsoft certs don't expire any more.. you just can't do the old ones..

[andypaul]

only thing with companies like cerco, i would have thought your chances of them getting you a job are low, who would employ someone who's done a few weeks or months course ? . i def wouldn't let them near my servers !, your right experience you can't buy. I've been in It since the early 80's , spent a couple of years doing video games, anyone ever have a vic-20 ? or c16 ?? . then 10 years working for an IT brokers, and the last 5+ years as a printer tec, but if i ever see another printer, i'm gonna go ...

need to get back into being an IT tec or as an admin. in the last couple of months i've been to a couple of customers, and thier person in charge on IT , clueless , who the has employed them, must be good blaggers, they cannot even config the atribs on a printer driver got me to go 16 miles to do it

as for holding it in your head, i think once you master something you can never forget it !, its been 23 yrs since i did any 6502 assembley language , but i could still do it now that's sad

i think it's time i put server 2003 on me old compaq proliant dl320 and start the new year looking for a new job in support or as a tec... blag i might a bit, but at least i can do some of it ...

and as for the osi, never needed that, what was it physical layer... oh theres an ap layer at the top .... oh presentation level ... all you need is ping and ipconfig

andypaul you think its worth me doing xp desktop support and the apps one ? or do the vista ?? i've heard microsoft certs don't expire any more.. you just can't do the old ones..

Worth doing xp 70-270 also worth doing is the mscdt 70271 and 70 272 (very easy and the basic IT support mcps) will be around for years to come. They also show you can perform basic it support regardless of the software if MS.
In fact Microsoft may find that Vista may take longer to settle in most offices as the recession bites and companies extend the lease on their pcs and IT/isd departments don't have the dough to buy vista liscences and new software which is vista comatiable. A few places i know have just patched up their it equipment rather than overhaul the money is just not there at the moment in some places. This is were IT support personnel who can actually do the practical stuff like yourself will come to the fore as things get longer in the tooth. So go for it.
Worth geming up and taking the Vista mcps but it really has not taken off in the big offices even the large city banks. Know more people dealing with rim server than vista those dam crackberries ( 50% of london people seem to have a phone that chains them to emails a bit like having a homing pigeon swooping in when you least expect it and they think its a good thing there company provide them with a crackberry


Also i noticed most IT guys hate printers and scanning it may involve other skils than tapping a keyboard or rebooting. Worth keeping up that side.

Saving costs and prolonging equipments life will become the new mantra i think for at least the next two years in the IT Field. So showing you have the skills do to this will be a big plus.

But 6502 language the same for me with z80 and 6800 (speccys and amigas when i was a youth)