Mortgage

[Pauldo]

Originally posted by admin@Jul 23 2004, 09:50 PM
Considering that the UK goverment stated that Filipino nurses were only a short term solution, I wonder why the majority of the ones we know now have 20 year mortgages, as well as being given permission for their families to live here.

I have no problem with it, as they are the best nurses around, but I wish the goverment (which ever one), would be clear about their intentions. No one seems to have noticed this.

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I think the answer lies in money: They don't have to pay to train Filipio nurses, and they will work happily for the standard nurse wage packet, without constantly griping that they need more money to survive.
My Filipina wife has tried for the last three years to get into university here to train as a nurse, but is still waiting. It appears to be some sort of initiative test to get into a nursing school in the UK. Nobody appears to be able to tell her the exact facts that she needs to know to apply, even at the school of nursing itself.

Eventually she was told she needed to go to college for a year to get some basic 'qualifications' as they don't recognise anything she brought from the Philippines with her, even her two year diploma as a computer technician she did at AMA school!

So, she did a year at college, passed the "access to nursing" course with great marks, Applied to the Uni, got permission to start (at a choice of two Unis), applied for bursary grant, waited, and waited, and waited, and made numerous phone calls, and.............. was told two days before the start of the student year that she did not qualify for the grant because she hadn't been in the UK for three years!

And what added insult to inury was (as they explained in her letter of refusal) that if she had entered the UK as an asylum seeker or refugee they would have waived that rule and she could have started at Uni anytime!!

And we thought the PI had some crap regulations and rules :huh:

[walesrob]

Originally posted by Pauldo@Sep 5 2005, 10:31 AM


And we thought the PI had some crap regulations and rules :huh:

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Our family business (or will be WAS) is an private old peoples residential home, and it makes my blood boil that little sh&ts sitting in an office somewhere in London make up rules and regulations that are bordering on the stupid and at best unworkable.

Heres an example, currently the residential home is run on an owner-manager basis, and we have 50 years of running this type of business in the family. SO you could say we know our what we're doing. However, under the Care Standards Act, all home must be run by an appointed manager with at least an NVQ Level 4 qualification, BUT the owner of the home will still be liable. Anyway, in order for us to sell the home, we have had to appoint a Manager with the required NVQ4 standard, which we have done. BUT Care Standards must vet their application and take up references, we cant!! Now for the sting in the tail, having appointed the Manager to run the home, the Care Standards now say that this manager is not good enough, even though she has the required level of standards and 30 years experience of being a Residential Home Manager. So WE have to sack her because shes no good (according to Care Standards). So we are doing the dirty work of the Care Standards, who wont sack her, even though they approved her in the first place. AAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH!

I will say this now, and I know it will be a reailty, in 20-30 years time, the UK will have a severe shortage of nursing home and care home provision all because the current regime are regulating to such an extent that a lot of homes have to close as they cannot meet the cost of standards. Its a disaster waiting to happen.

One things for sure, I'd hate to grow old in the UK, its disgusting how old people are treated - pushed from pillar to post, shoved around like they are a liability on the state.

We've had the last laugh though, the agency with does regular inspections of private nursing homes, called the CSIW is being abolished. Why? Because there are so few homes left to inspect? Why is that? Because they've shut them all down, and basically done themselves out of a job. :lol:

[Pauldo]

Originally posted by walesrob@Sep 5 2005, 11:17 AM
One things for sure, I'd hate to grow old in the UK, its disgusting how old people are treated - pushed from pillar to post, shoved around like they are a liability on the state.

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Strangly coincidental, but my wife works for a Caring Agency, Corinth, and spends most of her time 'filling in' at old peoples homes. She loves the job, and really enjoys most of the hoimes she works in, but there a couple of places she refuses to go back to, basically because of the way the workers there treat their patients.

She too says she would hate to grow old here, and be dumped into someone elses hands. She has met so many old people who have basically been abandoned by their children. Some are mentally challenged, or just too confused to cope. Some are sweet old people whose bodies have given up before their minds do.

It tears my wife apart to hear some of these lovely old souls tell her they would like to die if they could, just to get some release from the misery of laying in a bed 24/7. Some get a few visitors, some get none, and some plead for my wife to come back and see them because she is so sweet and kind and gentle.

There have been times when I collect my wife in the car and she sits there with tears rolling down her face telling me about her day :unsure:
No, I don't want to grow old and alone in the UK :(

[peterdavid]

Originally posted by Pauldo@Sep 5 2005, 09:31 AM

And what added insult to inury was (as they explained in her letter of refusal) that if she had entered the UK as an asylum seeker or refugee they would have waived that rule and she could have started at Uni anytime!!

And we thought the PI had some crap regulations and rules :huh:

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It is a pretty unpleasant final kick in the guts isn't it, this final insult. You go out of your way, through all the trials, tribulations, heartache, expense and inconvenience and put up with the Embassy's downright rudeness and insinuations that you've married a gold-digging bargirl out to fleece you for everything you can get, in order to do it all legally and in accordance with their own regulations and rules, and then when you finally get here you find that those who've come here illegally get preferential treatment, not only to access to benefits, but access to the sort of free education you only need if you are going to SETTLE here (which has clearly not been decided if you are only SEEKING asylum, as the name states), whereas this free education isn't actually available to those here on a SETTLEMENT visa (Embassy description of the status of the visa, I might add).

Does leave a nasty taste in the mouth.

[Pauldo]

Originally posted by peterdavid@Sep 5 2005, 09:15 PM
It is a pretty unpleasant final kick in the guts isn't it, this final insult. You go out of your way, through all the trials, tribulations, heartache, expense and inconvenience and put up with the Embassy's downright rudeness and insinuations that you've married a gold-digging bargirl out to fleece you for everything you can get

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Luckily we never had any of that grief, as we were married for three years before we applied, we had a daughter and we'd lived together in the PI for seven years already. BUT, the reason we didn't apply for any visas sooner was that we knew the sort of crap that the embassy throws at people. I couldn't bring myself to face the sh1t you mentioned, without possibly tearing some arrogant little embassy pricks throat out.

It was still fairly pathetic though, queuing up overnight at the Brit embassy with a huge pile of papers, to try and justify why my wife should be allowed to grovel her way into the UK. I blaggarded my way in with my daughter as soon as the doors opened, as we are both Brit citizens, but my wife still had to queue up in the sun while the security guards picked and chose who could come in. They even took my daughters pushchair away, so we had to sit with her in our laps for the three hours we spent inside. When we were called up we spoke to an English woman, who gave us no problems at all. Visa was granted there and then.

My wife now works bloody hard to earn the money she gets at her agency nursing type job, but there are people who walk right into England and get handouts of all descriptions basically because they WON'T work. Disgusting.

[peterdavid]

Originally posted by Pauldo@Sep 6 2005, 07:56 AM
Luckily we never had any of that grief, as we were married for three years before we applied, we had a daughter and we'd lived together in the PI for seven years already. BUT, the reason we didn't apply for any visas sooner was that we knew the sort of crap that the embassy throws at people. I couldn't bring myself to face the sh1t you mentioned, without possibly tearing some arrogant little embassy pricks throat out.

It was still fairly pathetic though, queuing up overnight at the Brit embassy with a huge pile of papers, to try and justify why my wife should be allowed to grovel her way into the UK. I blaggarded my way in with my daughter as soon as the doors opened, as we are both Brit citizens, but my wife still had to queue up in the sun while the security guards picked and chose who could come in. They even took my daughters pushchair away, so we had to sit with her in our laps for the three hours we spent inside.

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We too were together, and had lived together, for several years in the Philippines before we applied for the visa to come here - and similarly, we had a daughter. But the attititude of Embassy staff I found to be completely abhorrent - not just the treatment you describe, such as when they force applicants to queue in the heat outside for hours on end, but also the general attitude of Embassy staff to filipinos in general - sitting inside hearing other filipinos being interviewed (they weren't allowed privacy, but were forced to undergo their ordeal in full view and hearing of the whole waiting room), and more importantly, the manner and disrespecful tone they were harangued with, it honestly made me ashamed to be British, with MY tax-funded repsresentatives speaking so disdainfully and scornfully to these people, as if they were criminals trying to beg for their own parole, which they didn't deserve. It was disgusting. As an advert for this country, it is despicable - my wife was so shocked at the manner and tone that her view changed to one of "if that's how they treat filipinos there, I don't want any part of it". Entirely understandable, and I had to spend some time convincing her that the behaviour of Embassy staff was in NO WAY representative of the people of the UK.

There is simply no need for this treatment. The interview process and examination of the evidence/eligiblity of the applicant, if undertaken by suitably qualified, professional and educated/civilised people, can be perfectly well undertaken without the need to resort to the sort of questionning techniques and subject humiliation more befitting of a remote police station in deep south alabama.

Whilst our particular interviewer (I was deigned entry to part of the interview), once he'd realised the nature of our relationship (together for several years, living in PI, etc) was relatively civil from that point on, until he'd actually read the papers he did start off fairly hostile (up until he admitted he was more than satisfied our relationship was genuine, and then became fairly normal). But the treatment from OTHER Embassy staff, who hadn't had the luxury of looking at our application and just saw a british/filipina relationship, was, for the most part, dreadful. The rudeness they employed, not just to my wife, but also to myself, was shocking, and for the most part was in response to simple information requests or queries as to when we might hear of a date, etc. On several occasions during my time there I had reason to need to visit the consular section - whilst largely an improvement over the visa section, they, too, could at times be quite rude - conveniently forgetting that they exist to assist me, as a British national, and not the other way around.

I am wholly convinced that the way visa applicants/Embassy visitors in the UK Embassy in Washington is in no way comparable to the disgusting way they are treated in Manila. If so, this means the behaviour of Embassy staff towards Asian applicants in Manila is, quite frankly, racist; the differing treatment arising solely as a result of the race of the applicant applying.

And it's after this that it then sticks in the gut to find that these LEGAL settlement visa applicants are then denied the ability to properly settle/educate themselves, etc etc, not because that is the general rule on newcomers to the UK, but simply because they came here LEGALLY, and that the rule is waived for asylum seekers. I cannot understand the distinction, and, like I said, it's like the final kick in the face from the UK system which pretty much disgusted me from the first time I had the misfortune to step inside a British embassy on foreign soil and witness, first hand, how badly and disrespectfully they treat foreign nationals simply wishing to visit the UK.

[Pauldo]

Originally posted by peterdavid@Sep 6 2005, 01:02 PM
If so, this means the behaviour of Embassy staff towards Asian applicants in Manila is, quite frankly, racist; the differing treatment arising solely as a result of the race of the applicant applying.

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I honestly pity any Filipino trying to battle through the fiasco of getting a visa on their own. My wife tried several times calling the embassy, befroe we moved out, and was treated as you say, like a flamin' criminal. This was by her fellow country men too!

I called a few times trying to sort things out, always got a Filipino on the other end, ignorant, aggresive uselss replies. They even put me on hold a few times, waited five minutes, then hung up.

And they will NEVER give you their name, so you can't complain about their shabby attitude. It is absolutly infuriating trying to deal with the embassy by phone, for visa purposes.

I pity my mum in law, as she is preparing to go through it herself soon, at the age of 63. My wife may fly out to help her, but A, it is not cheap to fly there, B, there is no guarantee she will even be allowed into the embassy to help anyway.

At the end of the day though, Filipinos have but themselves to blame, to a certain degree. An old drinking friend of mine, who once worked in the US embassy in Manila, told me that at one stage, about 10 years ago, there was a 60% 'failure to return rate' on Filipinos going to the USA on tourist visas. Hence the massive crackdown. I can imagine the UK is/was somewhat similar. And the Manila Embassy obstacle course is designed to weed out the serious and diligent from the weak opportunists and scum bags.

[peterdavid]

Originally posted by Pauldo@Sep 7 2005, 10:51 AM

At the end of the day though, Filipinos have but themselves to blame, to a certain degree. An old drinking friend of mine, who once worked in the US embassy in Manila, told me that at one stage, about 10 years ago, there was a 60% 'failure to return rate' on Filipinos going to the USA on tourist visas. Hence the massive crackdown. I can imagine the UK is/was somewhat similar. And the Manila Embassy obstacle course is designed to weed out the serious and diligent from the weak opportunists and scum bags.

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Yes, there is some truth in that. They wouldn't all be treated like corrupt criminals if most of them weren't, well, corrupt criminals. Almost all of the ills of that country can be blamed on filipinos themselves stealing, robbing, raping and screwing each other over, with a total disrespect for democracy, the rule of law or a civilsed society.

But despite this, the Embassy should STILL remain objective when assessing an application, rather than assuming every filipina applicant is a gold digging bargirl out to make a quick buck with an application full of forged documents. Pre judging a person because of their race or country is still, literally, prejudice. We (the UK) should be better than that, otherwise we are no better than those we are 'judging'.

[ginapeterb]

Originally posted by peterdavid@Sep 8 2005, 10:04 AM
Yes, there is some truth in that. They wouldn't all be treated like corrupt criminals if most of them weren't, well, corrupt criminals. Almost all of the ills of that country can be blamed on filipinos themselves stealing, robbing, raping and screwing each other over, with a total disrespect for democracy, the rule of law or a civilsed society.

But despite this, the Embassy should STILL remain objective when assessing an application, rather than assuming every filipina applicant is a gold digging bargirl out to make a quick buck with an application full of forged documents. Pre judging a person because of their race or country is still, literally, prejudice. We (the UK) should be better than that, otherwise we are no better than those we are 'judging'.

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I would also go along with the above, their is actually some truth, in the failure to return rate, I would back up peterdavid, and the other post, in that sadly, the "failure to return" rate is bad in UK also, I know of countless Filipinos in UK who came on student visa's and also, caregiving visas, only to find they are now doing either other jobs, or multiple jobs, especially caregivers who shed the job and end up in the West end of London working as house helps, I know of many situations where this has happened, this only makes it more difficult for genuine applicants, we have to look at both sides of the coin, but it needs more research done before we can make subjective comments.

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