Fire engulfs tower block in west London

[fred]

A huge fire has engulfed a tower block in Latimer Road, west London, with firefighters tackling flames from the second floor to the top.

The fire at Grenfell Tower on the Lancaster West Estate was reported at 01:16 BST and about 200 firefighters are tackling the blaze.

George Clarke, the presenter of Channel 4 TV programme Amazing Spaces, told Radio 5 Live: "I'm getting covered in ash, that's how bad it is.

"I'm 100 metres away and I'm absolutely covered in ash.

"It's so heartbreaking, I've seen someone flashing their torches at the top level and they obviously can't get out."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40269625

[stevewool]

Terrible news for any on living in that block,
On the news this morning and seeing it live it looks like it will topple over very soon.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...ock/ar-BBCE7QF

[fred]

Shocking..
Find it hard to believe how this happened in a country with such strict fire regs...People that got out say they were not alerted by fire alarms.. Also they say no sprinkle system working!
They are council flats and most people in there would have been asleep...Any ones guess how many were trapped and died..
Horrific.

[fred]

In November 2016 a residents organisation, Grenfell Action Group, published an article on their website accusing the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea of ignoring health and safety legislation. They accused the council landlord of being an "evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia" and of misconduct regarding voting at annual general meetings. The Group also suggested "the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord". The group has frequently published articles criticising poor fire safety and maintenance at Grenfell Tower. They also revealed that residents had been urged by the landlord and council in newsletters and by notices to stay in their flats in the event of a fire.<sup>[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire</sup>

[Harry T]

It appears that the Firs service could only get as far as the 12th Floor due to the severity of the fire when they were trying to rescue people, there are around 27 floors in this block, I dread to think how many were trapped, from what we see at this moment 8-46am I cannot see how anyone could have survived what's left.

[Michael Parnham]

Horrific, families must have terrible injuries poor souls also many have died RIP.

[Arthur Little]

... it doesn't bear thinking about!

[fred]

"ALL OUR WARNINGS FELL ON DEAF EARS"

Regular readers of this blog will know that we have posted numerous warnings in recent years about the very poor fire safety standards at Grenfell Tower and elsewhere in RBKC.
ALL OUR WARNINGS FELL ON DEAF EARS and we predicted that a catastrophe like this was inevitable and just a matter of time.
https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/

[stevewool]

I would have thought a lot more people would be killed in a fire like this.

[Trefor]

I would have thought a lot more people would be killed in a fire like this.

I don't think everyone is accounted for yet. Apparently nobody on the top few floors got out alive :-(

[stevewool]

Well it does not take long before someone shouts terrorist, and I am sure it will not be long until someone blames the government for cuts.

No spray systems​ fitted for fires, surely that is wrong for any buildings like these.

[Trefor]

Ken Livingstone was already there, he was on LBC radio (I think) saying how the cuts to the fire service meant losing more lives. The interviewer then reminded Ken that the fire engines arrived on site 6 minutes after callout. Bringing politics into this is disgusting and typical Red Ken behaviour.

[johncar54]

I was on the investigation onto the Broadwater Farm Riots when a PC (Keith Blakelock) was murdered.

The Fire Brigade went onto the estate, protected by police, to fight a fire in a ground floor shop. It was thought that if not extinguished the apartments above would be set alight and life would be in danger.

We later discovered that the fire protection for the roof/floor was a number of hours. I do not remember how many but certainly sufficient to have allowed the fire to have burnt-out without damaging the property above.

For that reason I cannot understand why in this case the fire could have spread as it did from one floor to the next above.

[fred]

For that reason I cannot understand why in this case the fire could have spread as it did from one floor to the next above.

They seem to be saying that the fire spread fast because the new exterior insulating panels were burning which spread the inferno upwards.
The exterior of a concrete building isn't supposed to catch fire!

[Trefor]

They seem to be saying that the fire spread fast because the new exterior insulating panels were burning which spread the inferno upwards.
The exterior of a concrete building isn't supposed to catch fire!

They have just refurbished with new cladding. If it turns out to not be fireproof there will be people in the dock for this, never mind the management company.

[johncar54]

I just saw on TV. Cladding on fire falling, from the building.

[stevewool]

It's like everything in life, if it can be done cheaper, and save thousands they do it, hoping nothing will ever happen, and most of the time nothing does.

Then this happens.

[grahamw48]

Some of the most valuable real estate in the world, and evidently among the most hazardous if set alight.

[jonnijon]

I think it was zinc cladding, and that like alluminium will burn at the right temperature.

[grahamw48]

Especially if it is sandwiching a type of plastic (as with the Dubai hotel fire, not that long ago).

[Harry T]

Whilst Im not pretending to be an expert on such matters, i did work with Plastics for many years, there is an additive thats added to the granules when its mixed prior to it being made into any product, its called commonly FR thats stands for Fire Retardent, its very easy to not add the FR to the granules, and its also cost saving, whilst Im not for one moment saying this is whats happened i suspect its highly likely, now whilst the people who were responsible for the renovation are being highlighted at the moment, there is a very strong possibility that it could be the Manufacturers of these panels that are at fault, we cannot expect end users to test every product that they use, but we do expect products do do what they say on the Tin.
I can think of one example only a few years ago, where we were supposed to use UV in a product that helps maintain colour in a product over a certain number of years, in this instance the Material Handler forgot to mix this UV in with the Granules at the beginning of the production run, it was discovered during the run, and hastily added for the remaining production run, mistakes happen some due to human error some as a blatant cost cutting exercise.

[fred]

Whilst Im not pretending to be an expert on such matters, i did work with Plastics for many years, there is an additive thats added to the granules when its mixed prior to it being made into any product, its called commonly FR thats stands for Fire Retardent, its very easy to not add the FR to the granules, and its also cost saving, whilst Im not for one moment saying this is whats happened i suspect its highly likely, now whilst the people who were responsible for the renovation are being highlighted at the moment, there is a very strong possibility that it could be the Manufacturers of these panels that are at fault, we cannot expect end users to test every product that they use, but we do expect products do do what they say on the Tin.
I can think of one example only a few years ago, where we were supposed to use UV in a product that helps maintain colour in a product over a certain number of years, in this instance the Material Handler forgot to mix this UV in with the Granules at the beginning of the production run, it was discovered during the run, and hastily added for the remaining production run, mistakes happen some due to human error some as a blatant cost cutting exercise.

I just read a post where someone says he was listening to an engineer on "This morning" that said the insulation section of the Ali panel is NOT required to be fire proof..
Sounds to me like they think the fire can never get hot enough to melt aluminium..
Blind leading the blind..
Anyway...I`d rather live in a leaking slum dwelling than in one of those damned tower blocks.

[grahamw48]

I would definitely keep a very long rope ladder in my cupboard.
The highest I've lived for any length of time was when I was in Hong Kong... on the 16th floor.

We were able to access the roof on the floor above us though. Even so, it makes you nervous, especially one time when there was a (fortunately minor) fire on the 7th floor, which did create a lot of smoke.

You really do need to have a personal escape plan if you're anything above a couple of floors.

[fred]

Not sure about a "rope" ladder Graham.
I think it might be an idea to hang this piece of kit next to the extinguisher though!!

[Slip]

Whilst Im not pretending to be an expert on such matters, i did work with Plastics for many years, there is an additive thats added to the granules when its mixed prior to it being made into any product, its called commonly FR thats stands for Fire Retardent, its very easy to not add the FR to the granules, and its also cost saving, whilst Im not for one moment saying this is whats happened i suspect its highly likely, now whilst the people who were responsible for the renovation are being highlighted at the moment, there is a very strong possibility that it could be the Manufacturers of these panels that are at fault, we cannot expect end users to test every product that they use, but we do expect products do do what they say on the Tin.
I can think of one example only a few years ago, where we were supposed to use UV in a product that helps maintain colour in a product over a certain number of years, in this instance the Material Handler forgot to mix this UV in with the Granules at the beginning of the production run, it was discovered during the run, and hastily added for the remaining production run, mistakes happen some due to human error some as a blatant cost cutting exercise.

I used to manufacture cleaning products etc. We used to make a lot of paint products for hospital​s which would have fire retardant powder as one of the chemicals added during the manufacturing process. Problem was it wasn't cheap, and with everybody trying to undercut everybody... We soon lost out to somebody who didn't add that to the paint.

[bigmarco]

Apparently the cladding was done mainly for cosmetic purposes, to make the building more pleasing to the eye for the local billionaires.
1400 empty properties in that borough the highest in the country many bought purely for investment purposes by Russian Oligarchs who have no intention of living in them.
It might be an idea to seize 120 of them to temporarily those made homeless until such time as they can be rehoused.

[grahamw48]

Totally agree.

Personally I'd like foreigners to be stopped from buying property in the UK, or at least severe limitations put upon it... as in the Philippines.

It has totally distorted the market, along with 'buy-to-let'.

Ok if you're the one collecting the cash.

Where are our kids going to live, at an affordable price ?

[Tawi2]

One of the victims is a Philippine national, she hasn't been seen since the fire broke out..........

[Tawi2]

Totally agree.

Personally I'd like foreigners to be stopped from buying property in the UK, or at least severe limitations put upon it... as in the Philippines.

It has totally distorted the market, along with 'buy-to-let'.

Ok if you're the one collecting the cash.

Where are our kids going to live, at an affordable price ?

A lot of top-end properties in London. New-builds are bought by foreigners, they don't even stick tenants in, just buy them, hold onto them for a few years and watch the prices climb.

[grahamw48]

It's the same in many cities, not with such exhorbitant rents perhaps, but there are still whole streets owned by Pakistanis and other foreigners out to make a quick buck and pay as little tax (if any) as possible.
Fill them with tenants who have been priced out of the private housing market, who can't get public housing because it's filled with 'refugees', fat people with self-inflicted type 2 diabetes, fatherless kids and drug-users, and who's rent is of course paid for by the council = you and me.