family expectations / inteference

[nigel272727]

I had a filipino girlfriend for the past two years. Shes a nurse and has been a british citizen for the past two years. One of the big things we argue about is the expectations of her family particulary from her, and if we were together probably from me as well. Let me be very clear about mu view on support to family members in the philippines. I totally agree with it. I have myself helped her family a great deal especially her young son etc. I have no problems in principle with support in that respect. If you can afford to do it, budget for it, plan for it then whats the problem. I dont have a problem. My girlfriends family live in DAVAO in terms of filipino society they are not poor - caertainly not. If you divide filipino culture into lower, middle and upper class - they would be at the top end of upper i think. Nive property, businesses children going to private schools aetc etc. 2 of her brothers (shes comes from a very large family) work abroad and have there own families and have done very well for themself. Other members of the family particulary the other three sisters are not desperately poor but they need help i think. They have very small incomes etc etc. My girlfriend has always sent a monthly allowance back home. In terms of some of the allowances i know people send - its significant - in the hundreds of pounds a month i mean. Thats all fine and we've never argued regarding that matter. However what ive witnessed many people (well herself and friends especially) getting in to an absolute mess with is where families request funding for an emergency. Here im talking about medical emergencies. For example. Her flatmate had to send over £10000 back to the philippines for her mother to have a heart opearation via taking a loan. This girl is a band 3/4 healthcare assistant - income probably no more than 16k a year. What ive siad to my girlfriend is - ok fine - but what if that happens again and again and gain. If you (or more likely the family) have decided that as a foreigner working aboroad you have an obligation to support medical emergencies like that. Then in my point of view (life) and ive seen it happen, life will very quickly become unsustanable. A major illness something like that which you were expected to support could push you to the edage of bankruptcy (i dont think im exggarating). When i say this to my girlfriend she simply says you'll never change my families expectations and youll never change my obligations. My view (and i hope people dont think im being cruel here) is how can you possibly be in a mrraige - whatever and have that attitude. Where overnight you could (and probably would have too) throw your how life into chaos to support these things. Im not willing to live a life like that and take the risk of it happening. Ive been hurt enough and i have no intention of being hurt again. I do love my girlfriend very much but i think the financial expectations (partculary from some filipino families who have never travelled to or experienced life in the uk is totally unrealistic given our modest incomes) and for me its eroding the relationship we have.

Id also like to know what experience people have of the Health system. As i understand it - its two teir - private and government. Privately people get the best. You get the very best treatment but you have to pay. And pay i dont know how people do if im honest particulary those people on avearge incomes. The government system is not good (what would you expect) but you are entitled to treatment. You have to pay something but its nowhere near what you'd pay privately.I think in terms of treatment you just try to pay for the drugs etc etc. I understand this is not pleasant but if its a choice to use a government hospital or maybe push your son / daughter to financial ruin with the expectation they can pay for something - they simply dont have the capacity to do - then whats the choice ?. The whole attitude of some families scares me if im honest. I think in our relationship it would ruin any canve of success.

Id be really graetfuld for anyone who can offer me some advice or maybe just explain some of the attitudes, systems, expectations ive referred to in this e mail. Also id like to know how other people have coped with it.

Hope you can help. Im at the point of despair

nigel

[ginapeterb]

As a moderator I have a general rule, if I read a post and I cannot get past the first paragraph because you have not formatted your post properly into paragraphs, I soon stop reading.....hence ...no answer from me.

[nigel272727]

ok i understand - yes its hard to read

my advice was regarding some of the expectations placed on my filipinos regarding the medical care of their families. The demands placed seem in my point of, view totally unrealistic given the sums of money involved and relative earning capacity here.

Im talking here about her family asking (or believing she can) fund the cost of private medical care when it comes to major procedures stuff like that.

Here family in my view have absolutely no understanding of the british economy etc etc (people must literally think we are billionares)

This is a source of argument for us because i cannot understand how they think some of these requests are sustanabile - when they are not.

My girlfriend earns a very modest income. When i first met her some of these requests had put her into serious problems (in a financial point of view)

I was just wondering given the cost of private health care how the average
filipino can afford private medical care and what people in the middle class do. I guess they must use the government health system (which is obviously not as good as the private one) although im not sure.

any advice appreciated

kind regards

[andypaul]

I had this thought what if a emergency occurs which was going to stretched us. Like here the only answer is some form of insurance plan. Yet to find a suitable one and when i asked about such things on here got no actual leads or suggestions. But if i find out any useful info i will post here.

[kimmi]

hi Nigel,

would u mind writing ur queeries in a more readable one?so we can understand ur case better, we know ur bothered right now but pls dont make us bothered too..

[mhynne]

i think you have to accept the fact that it really is a value that every filipina has.. we are raised to know that our parents and family are very important to us.. and believe me every daughter who works (well most) gives money to their parents every month.. that is coming from a daughter whose dad drives a BMW in the Philippines.. hahaha.. yes they still want me to send money every month to them as soon as i get a job here in the UK... even though my parents earn a lot, i still am obliged to give some money to them every month as a way of respect and returning the favor for raising us.. its a value that is taught in my family and i think most filipino (and chinese) family as well.. i think one advice might be to get the family members insured in a health plan.. although if they have a present condition it might be hard to do..

but whether the financial need is reasonable or not is the question really.. i dont think one has to be in total debt just to help out.. i think that is out of the line.. personally for me and my family... one has to give what only one can give... =)

[Manilana]

but whether the financial need is reasonable or not is the question really.. i dont think one has to be in total debt just to help out.. i think that is out of the line.. personally for me and my family... one has to give what only one can give... =)

I agree.

[eljean]

ok i understand - yes its hard to read

my advice was regarding some of the expectations placed on my filipinos regarding the medical care of their families. The demands placed seem in my point of, view totally unrealistic given the sums of money involved and relative earning capacity here.

Im talking here about her family asking (or believing she can) fund the cost of private medical care when it comes to major procedures stuff like that.

Here family in my view have absolutely no understanding of the british economy etc etc (people must literally think we are billionares)

This is a source of argument for us because i cannot understand how they think some of these requests are sustanabile - when they are not.

My girlfriend earns a very modest income. When i first met her some of these requests had put her into serious problems (in a financial point of view)

I was just wondering given the cost of private health care how the average
filipino can afford private medical care and what people in the middle class do. I guess they must use the government health system (which is obviously not as good as the private one) although im not sure.

any advice appreciated

kind regards

I do agree in you regarding about their expectation(those people back in the philippines) that they really think that foreigners are "billionaires"way back to there country except for those who are really the rich ones too....but you can't blame them because when it comes to our country phils you can almost afford anything that you would like to have which i believe that not any ordinary citizen in the phils can afford like for example...treating out dinner the entire family out,beach out,stay in hotel...shopping for everyone...and that is also because of the value of your money in our country...

I do believe that whenever there,s a filipino in any part of world is they do it sending money...but it is always depend on the person and family back home...i didnt marry a rich man...but he can provide enough on us and our family in here in england...england is a very expensive country full of tax as i discover...the good thing is they have free health service which the philippines doesnt have...

The health system in the philippines is really so expensive specially the private one...none is free...when it comes to public health service it is quite cheaper...but then you have to wait until you get attended even if you are already dying for there are loads and loads of sick people coming in...only those really the poorest of the poor who gets the free med...not free operation there is a limit on how much the government can only extend their help to those poor ones ...i dont like the health service in the phil really...to be honest...in private you be treated so good as you have to pay high amount of it ....while in public i dont like the nurse they seem numb they get mad of you if you rush them they dont seem bothered if youre dying they are more concerned of the policy of their own wait for the doctor until it arrives..i am telling this based on my experience i been in and out the hospital both private and public not because im sick but few of our family member does...

I do send money back home only if i can, i only send what they need...i dont send monthly...as i dont earn money at the moment...i wait until they badly needed it....i dont want them to rely on me also..as i have my own family now..because i dont want to disappoint them if i cant...the good thing is my family does understand it...if you embrace all of the financial obligation of the entire family back home they will gonna expect that youve really got loads of money...the best thing you can do is to help them base on what you can...if your gf is asking some financial help just tell her what you can and cannot...i dont force my husband to do it...i do save my allowance and send it to them...because being here in a rich country is already a privilege... comfortable life compare at home...then when you think of your family back home...you worry for them...i think what is good thing about being a filipino is we share our blessings...to the family....i told my husband before that if ever i get a job in here i would like to send my family enough money to help them out...i know if ever there would be an emergency going to happen i know that they are going to think of the person that they know they can help them...there,s is just one thing you can do about this...embrace it or just let go....you can only help your gf the way you can...dont force yourself in way that someday your gonna throw everything on her face...or if you can, find a filipina that doesnt do it(sending financial help)then it will solve your problem...

[KeithD]

PARAGRAPHS

[Manilana]

PARAGRAPHS

[misscarie]

hey eljean , same as here ... since b4 , my bf told me he wont stop me to help my family (financial) if i get job in UK , perhaps he will still continue helping them as much as he can , yeah right ... they think that foreign guy are billionaire coz they live in other country , i understand why they think that .... my Lola died in a killer hospital way back on 2002 , the nurses there are iresponsible , sorry for saying but its true :( i see them sleeping in the nursing station around 1 to 2am and that was the time my lola need a medicine ... so my cousin went there to wake the nurse and she said , she don't sleep and just checking only the slip, she havent inject my lola one time and the syrup cost 1,200 pesos (2 injection/perday) .... hmmm my lola passed away 2 days after ... if we can afford to take her in a private hospital maybe shes still here having boding with family ...

but anyway , i am glad that not all nurses are like them ... and i met some of them already ,,, nice and kind ....

nigel , u must understand ur gf's situation and i know u do

God Bless You Both!

[scotsfiancee]

Well done eljean for your point of view.!! i totally agree with yah

if you can't accept it --------------

find a filipina that doesnt do it(sending financial help)

Problem solve

[Pepe n Pilar]

Hi Nigel,
It is common to filipinos to extend help to members of the family as we were brought up that way. May they belong to a well-to-do family or i may say poor but almost are practicing the same.
In my family we are not obliged to give, we only give what we can afford.
Some people thought that foreigners are billionares!...They should be given books to read or let them watch news or simply by observing.
If you can't afford to be on this situation, then find a filipina that doesn't obliged you to do something that is against your will.
As to healthcare, here in my country we have a lot of health Insurance Companies to choose from. Just pay a certain amount everymonth and choose the scheme which you can afford. So during emergencies you don't have to apply for a loan or bother someone else's pockets.

[nigel272727]

thanks for explaining this to me everyone

Its really increased my understanding and i know 4 sure 99% of people work this out and it causes them no problems whatsoever.

Thanks also for explaining the health care system to me. I know its a combination of governement hospitals, private ones, people taking out insurance etc etc.

I guess people just have to work out what is best for them. I also think that in the philippines major charities etc support healthcare although im really not sure.

God bless everyone
Nigel

[wynna]

Nigel, I can understand your feelings as I know some Filipinas in the UK who send lots of money home. I know of one who sent a large sum of money to put one of the children through school, but when it came to her going there the family had spent the money.
When my hubby and I first got together it was with the understanding on both sides that he wasn't rich and didn't have much (he is divorced with 3 kids that drain his funds through the CSA) and I and my family have never asked anything of him, although he has been generous on many occasions when he has had sufficient funds.
I am now working and manage to finance my sister through college, but my family make commitments too. My sister works hard in college and gets good grades, I provide things for family members to sell, they don't want 'hand-outs'.
I don't think Filipinos really understand the difference in the finances between countries, when I came to the UK it took a long time to appreciate how much things cost, but at the end of the day it's all relative, salaries here are much higher, but so is the cost of living, between you, you and your gf need to make the family understand, I think also you need to agree what limits you are going to give yourselves for any finances you send, but from reading your post it doesn't seem like they need very much financial help.
Health care -we have the Phil Health which you can pay voluntarily and is not very expensive and helps towards the cost of medical care. We also have the private health insurance which is of course more costly but will also cover more things.

[andypaul]

So as well as phill health is there any health plans people have any expereince of?

[nigel272727]

what ive learnt is that phil health is not really health insurance although its a very valuable scheme. Its a government backed contribution scheme where the employee and employer contribute set amounts. This then entitles discounts etc etc at private hospitals. However what ive learnt is that 17% of the population (so ive read) contribute to private medical insurance plans. These are with major worldwide insurance companies AIG, sun life etc etc. Most have dedicated hospitals attached to them. Exactly the same as say in America. A good investment i reckon.

god bless nigel

[kimmi]

Nigel,

i am sorry but helping our families in the philippines is one of our culture and that's what makes our culture unique and special..

U might find it odd or weird but for us, we're just giving back gratitude and I guess it's up to ur gf if she knows her limitations..and I am sure even before u met ur gf u already know some of our cultures here and about sending monies to our families..

for me, as long as the money that ur gf is sending to them is from her own pocket, there is no issue or not a big deal..

about the health insurance in my country, it is very hard to get it and not all people are capable to have it because most of us might think there are some thing we need to prioritize though we know HEALTH is very important..

It's up to u if u can live with it..

[nigel272727]

I accept your comments kimmi thank you. In my personal circumstances this is not about me not understanding, being naive. i have a degree in international economics and so im pretty clued up regrading the way of he world. Please do not insult my intelligence. Health insurance in your country is a way of life in the philippines. Why dont u look around. Major international and global companies have established health insurance markets. When i visted mainila you have state of the art hospitals, you have a public health system and you have the choices that individual family members make. Thats all i am saying. Of all the choices you make you do one best for yourself and your family. Of all the respones i read to my first post i actually found yours very insulting 2 me. It was almost saying dont bother us. Dont even try telling people what the system is, what the alternatives are ?

gudnite and god bless - nigel

[Pepe n Pilar]

Hi Sis Kimmi,
Helping our families in the Philippines is one best culture a filipino has that makes us unique and special. But if we can't afford to do it because of present situation or financial problems we cannot be considered we're not giving back gratitude to our parents. We can't generalize this. If my son has a stable job and/or already married i won't obliged him to support me. I will tell him to look after his wife and children. If i don't have that much financies i will tell him, but i won't get mad. What if i obliged him and this will cause his family to break down? If his fiancial standing is really stable and he refuses to extend help then that is something to talk about. As a parent we should be more understanding, compassionate and broad-minded.
I guess your statement about " As long as the money ur gf is sending to them is from her own pocket, there is no issue or not a big deal" sounds like you do yours, and i do mine relationship. When we get married we have to consider many things. May it be on interior decorating, food we eat, personal hygiene and financial matters. We could send money to those family members who need them but i guess our priority is our family. We dearly love our parents and brothers and sisters but still what comes first is our husband and children. This still applies to the urgent need, i guess we have to balance everything in order to have a happy and lasting relaionship. Just my opinion.

[Manilana]

Well said Sis Iye. I agree.
For me when it comes to financial expectation, thats depends on upbringing of the person, the family background and financial status.
In my opinion, being married to a foreigner husband that does not mean famliy have to expect more help from you and your husband. I respect the principles of gratitude of most filipinas, but we can show gratitude not only by sending money to them. I can show my love and gratitude to my parents by sending them cards on special occassions and even if theres no occassion such as thank you card or just a postcards to show them that I care for them even where am I. I always phone them and if I have more free time I take them to parks and to the restaurants. Showing gratitude is not just by giving them luxuries or spoiled them to the extent of being a conflict of you and your partner. My parents are not rich, but I can say they have evrything they need and they are happy for what they have. When I go back home from abroad or from my holiday I just bring them presents, mostly sweets and specialty from the place I ve been and they do appreciate it. I have never oblidge to support them even I have brothers who just living in an average standard of living, my Dad does not want us to be dependent to someone so he said he rather to see my brothers to be resposible for their life, he said if they want to have a better life they should work-hard and not to rely from a member of the family who have more.
About sending money thats from your pocket; well I think thats should be discussed between the husband and wife, because that would be sound unfair to your husband if you will just work to be able you send money to your family back home and yet your husband is working hard for you and your children. If I have my own income that should be add to my husband`s income and that would be our money together. Then if we need to give help for my family if its emergency example; for surgery or serious illness that involved big amount that should be with my husband approval.
As a parent we have to teach our children to be resposible for themselves when they grow up and not to rely to someone else. Being a parent, are we raising our kids, sending them to school and university because we expect them to pay us in the future? In my humble opinion, to raise your kids and provide them good education is your resposiblity and not because you look at them as your insurance in the future that will give back to you return of investment in the future.
About health insurance, even the patient has no medical insurance, he can still have a free medical service and treatment, we have government hospital that giving free service, but you have to buy your own medicine. Yes medicine here is cost a fortune, but if you will ask for the generic one and not those branded medicine I think even the average income family can still afford to buy medicine. Medical and dental service is free of charge in our government hospital as long as you are not fussy and be patient in long queue. Yes it is not as good as the hospitals in the UK but our government is contenously doing their best to provide the filipinos better medical facilities and sevices.

[vrn]

Thats a good point Manilana...I agree with you on the Philippine Health Insurance and the government hospital's policy.

Filipinos can avail a free consultation at the government hospital but still needs to pay the medicines. You can also avail free hospitalization if you have Phil Health(main health insurance in the Philippines). To be able to be qualified for Phil Health, you need to pay at least 100-150 pesos a month, and your beneficiaries are included in that insurance too.

If in case you don't have any Phil Health there is the Hospital Social Services where you can go and ask assistance from the social worker and they'll give discount appropriate to you.

For major operations, it really involves some money, but still you can avail discount if you are Phil Health member, and majority of Philippine hospital are Phil Health registered too. For some Filipinos, they choose private hospital because of the belief that they're being treated well compared to the government hospitals. So no choice they need to pay a lot...I still believe the Philippine Health Policy is not that bad after all.

[andypaul]

I don't think the average income family in fairly well off areas can afford medcines for all eventualities. I know of many examples of people who don't have the medicne they need and go with out unless the cash is there.
I know i couldn't afford all the medcines my family and I would need in the UK with out the NHS or private insurance.

[nigel]

Hi Nigel! Hey that's my name! haha

I will be marrying a Filipina soon, and yes, I'll be supporting her family as much as I can like you do. I must say I also fear something going wrong with the family, someone needing an operation perhaps like what happened to you.

I've been aware for a long time that Filipino families depend on one another to help each other out, they are not independant like we are, and they will consider you a member of their family now. I understand that running into financial difficulty can be very worrying, you find yourself lying awake at night worrying about it, you might have your head in your hands wondering how your going to get on top of things..

You mentioned that some of the family members are quite wealthy, are they giving money to help? If the answer is no then I think you are perfectly entitled to grumble about that!

I wonder how old you are, and do you have a mortgage on a property? I've run up a bit of debt, but I'm optimistic that my flat will be worth a lot more than what I payed for it in years to come.

If your on the verge of bankruptcy then I guess you'll have to say no, when I have to say no to people I say things like "there's only so much I can spend...the money isn't there.."

If it feels bad when you have to say no, but your not a never ending pot of money, none of us are! And it doesn't mean you don't love your girlfriend no more..

You might do well to talk to a financial adviser from your bank about this, I do it now and then, they just juggle my accounts around and make my outgoings smaller, it might make you feel more positive about the whole thing.

Let's not forget that the pleasure our filipina's give us is worth more than any amount of money! I'm aware this could happen to me, but I still want to marry the little minx! I hope you found this helpful.

[andypaul]

Hi Nigel! Hey that's my name! haha

I will be marrying a Filipina soon, and yes, I'll be supporting her family as much as I can like you do. I must say I also fear something going wrong with the family, someone needing an operation perhaps like what happened to you.

I've been aware for a long time that Filipino families depend on one another to help each other out, they are not independant like we are, and they will consider you a member of their family now. I understand that running into financial difficulty can be very worrying, you find yourself lying awake at night worrying about it, you might have your head in your hands wondering how your going to get on top of things..

You mentioned that some of the family members are quite wealthy, are they giving money to help? If the answer is no then I think you are perfectly entitled to grumble about that!

I wonder how old you are, and do you have a mortgage on a property? I've run up a bit of debt, but I'm optimistic that my flat will be worth a lot more than what I payed for it in years to come.

If your on the verge of bankruptcy then I guess you'll have to say no, when I have to say no to people I say things like "there's only so much I can spend...the money isn't there.."

If it feels bad when you have to say no, but your not a never ending pot of money, none of us are! And it doesn't mean you don't love your girlfriend no more..

You might do well to talk to a financial adviser from your bank about this, I do it now and then, they just juggle my accounts around and make my outgoings smaller, it might make you feel more positive about the whole thing.

Let's not forget that the pleasure our filipina's give us is worth more than any amount of money! I'm aware this could happen to me, but I still want to marry the little minx! I hope you found this helpful.

Exactly nigel what happens if and when you have a faimly with vime with prices rising weekly on basic houshold bills. The amount spare will be not very big if you need to buy a bigger place and support a wife and a kid or kids.

Agreed money is not all but if i knew people in phill asked for money but didn't need it i would be like and on my kids need it more.

Also ask a few generations back in the UK like in Phill the family had to support one another i can think of many stories of two familes in one house as one couldn't pay the rent and was evicted. I could ask many other people from countries even today with out advanced welfare states who would say the same. But im sure all would say they would not expect a realtive to suffer and send money back if they had enough to support themselves.

[Manilana]

I don't think the average income family in fairly well off areas can afford medcines for all eventualities. I know of many examples of people who don't have the medicne they need and go with out unless the cash is there.
I know i couldn't afford all the medcines my family and I would need in the UK with out the NHS or private insurance.

Andypaul,
Medicine for minor ailments are not that expensive here, especially if use the generic one. Even the medicine for example for heart disease , hight blood and diabetes still affordable.

[nigel272727]

nigel. Im not bankrupt and have no intention of becoming thus. Im taking about someone else here not me. Im 36 and single.

Ive read some lovely posts on here displaying a great deal of understanding wynna, manilana, vrm, yours etc etc. Others well im just lost for words ...........

and in my opinion the Health infrastructure in the philippines is reasonably ok ish and getting better all the time. Im not going to go into what i do for a living etc but i guess i should know.

God bless
Nigel

[andypaul]

Andypaul,
Medicine for minor ailments are not that expensive here, especially if use the generic one. Even the medicine for example for heart disease , hight blood and diabetes still affordable.

out of intrest whats affordable and do they work?

The common place medcines are im sure are cheaper due to mass production but what about the ones that are for more rarer complaints or from breakthough research. I can buy paracetmol and other pain relivers for pennies here in the Uk due to the large supermarkets lowering the prices and making loss leaders. But the more expensive versions are far better i find personally when i need proper pain relief.
Quite often older versions of medcines seem to be said to have bad side effects or not effective as the new ones.

[hilda_danao]

We have very close family ties in Philippines. It's our culture that's not common to British people, i just observed. We cannot see ourselves eating nice foods and buying nice things we can afford here in UK while our family in Phil are maybe eating just rice and salted shrimp paste. We felt guilty about it. That for me is the main reason why we are helping our family. I don't agree that we send money to Philippines because it is our obligation to our parents/family. I also believe that it is not right to spoil them, sending them money that's way too much from what they really need especially when we also have our own family here in UK. We also have to teach them to stand on their own feet.

[mach]

Hello Nigel! In my family, my parents never obliged us (children) to help. It is in our nature that we help family members who are in need. My parents also told us that we can assist financially but only to the extent wherein we can afford. It has never been the children's obligation to provide the needs of the rest of the family members. Unfortunately, some family members wouldn't work their off and just wait for the financial assistance they get from other family members. Like the popular English idiomatic "have one's cake and eat it too."