I'm Starting To Feel Like An ATM

[WaiGuoRen]

Hello All:

I'm an American male living and teaching in Hong Kong. I'm 48 years old, fit, and not bad looking I suppose. During a recent holiday in Cebu I met a 32-year-old filipina I'll call S. She is the mother of a young daughter. Where and how we met may be of some significance, but I'd rather focus on the person right now.

We went off for a week to a quiet island resort and had a great time together. Upon returning to Cebu, where she lives, I got to meet her family and her 7-year-old daughter. Their circumstances are not the best, as is often the case in the Philippines, but I felt that I fit right into her life while there. I was particularly affected by the little girl. On the occasions when we went out to eat or whatever, she would take my hand as we walked. It was around this time that S and I professed our love for each other. Understand that I'm not motivated by pity here. S has a real spark to her, a liveliness and sense of fun so different from the Chinese girls I've now. I really wanted this girl in my life.

The down side is that I'm suspicious and can't quite bring myself to trust S is because of her frequent requests for money for this or that necessary expense. Recently she asked for 3500 pesos and I wired her 8500. Her gratitude seemed sincere, but after not hearing from her for a few days, she told me last night that she had been robbed of both that money and her pay as she was making her way home in a jeepney late at night. Now today, it's money to pay the water bill and confirmation clothes for her daughter!

I understand that these girls have been conditioned by less-than-sincere foreigners, and I'm trying to make her understand that I'm a stand-up guy who might even be willing to marry her. Now that she is in my life, I'm willing to fight the good fight and work hard to understand her culture--and to make her understand that she has do the same for me so that we can meet halfway. She knows that I can give her a much better life, but she doesn't seem to understand that she is going to push me away if she keeps this up. How I've been putting it to her is this: I tell her with emphasis that love is trust, so I'll help her out.

Yes, there are types that you come across in some forums: the gold digger, the green card hunter. I refuse to believe that it's purely that she's after my money. We do have a good relationship otherwise.

So, I'd like to know from someone what cultural considerations there are, and where might the line be between being a fool and simply wanting to help. Finally, how to proceed with S? Is it tough love time?

Thanks!

[kimmi]

hi Waiguoren,

firstly welcome to the forum..I am sorry to hear about ur situation with Ms. S but I guess since u have met her already u urself can attest if she is trustworthy or sincere in everything she's saying..Though U cant really say the real attitude of a person unless u are living with them on one roof..

IMHO, it will be better if u get to know each other better before u send money again to her in the future..There's nothing wrong in helping the one u love if u knew they really needs it, but if u feel something is wrong then its up to u to decide whether u still wanted to continue giving her or not..

[Pepe n Pilar]

Hi Waiguoren, welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about this. Your story is somewhat common. Maybe this girl you have met and fancied hasn't thought of you as the Mr. Right. She might be thinking only of her present financial situation and never thought of you considering her as your future wife to be (i may say). This is one of the reasons why some foreigners think that filipinas are only after their money. Some filipinas are really down on debts and they are really hard up. You may also consider her financial standing (for awhile) and observe if this will go on. You're the only person who can conclude whatever this girl is up for. If there's no love for you, and she is only after your money then please open your eyes. There are filipinas who are not so rich but they are so ashamed or reluctant to tell about their financial status. If they can do something about it they will and not just ask from a stranger. Imagine she is asking from you money to pay her water bill? People living in classy subdivisions pay at least P2K so if she needs that then she is living in a classy place? Or if the amount reaches that much and can't afford to pay....

[WaiGuoRen]

A correction by WeiGuoRen:
S has a real spark to her, a liveliness and sense of fun so different from the Chinese girls I've now.

I meant " . . . Chinese girls I've known."

[joebloggs]

I got to meet her family and her 7-year-old daughter. Their circumstances are not the best, as is often the case in the Philippines, but I felt that I fit right into her life while there. I was particularly affected by the little girl. On the occasions when we went out to eat or whatever, she would take my hand as we walked.

well having a 7yr old daughter myself, you can be sure that her 7yr old daughter is sincere.

as for frequent request for money,are your being used or scammed?, scammed i don't think so, she would not have let you meet her daughter and family.many see europeans and americans as well off, and in terms of pay many are.

does she work? does she live with her family ? you must be able to have a rough idea of what her money bills are, like most british guys on here, we sent our g/f money, and i'm sure not all of it was for the purpose we were told

you say you may want to marry her, if you can afford the money then don't let the money become a problem, keep it under control, i'm sure life is difficult for a single mother, unlike the uk and usa there is no state benefit system.

[winner]

if there no trust there walk away this down to you we can only give you advice but the end of the day this is down to you a true filipna will never ask for money when only just meeting you thay be to ashmed you say she full of life and fun all filipnas are but thay never tell you there problems untill thay know ou well and there is a future for the two of you

[PeterB]

Indeed, doubts are part and parcel of any ldr, particularly between a westerner and a filipina, where money will frequently be the issue.

About 3 days before my second visit, I was woken at 3am in the UK with an urgent request for P25k to (part)pay for a Caesarian op for sister-in-law. I found that a difficult time - particularly being disoriented by the early wakening. Yes, I did send the money, and little Jarrell is now 7 months old. Without the op he, his mother, or both, would almost certainly not have survived.

Life is tough for most filipinos, and money is always in short supply. Most filipinos live on utang. However, unlike westerners, who borrow money because they want a bigger, better, faster, car, or the latest plasma tv, a filipino borrows money for the absolute essentials of life.

If you believe in your relationship with this girl, and you can afford the money, then go ahead and send it.

As for my story ... I have now left the UK - sold up everything there - in order to live in Phils, and I marry my filipina this coming Saturday!

[KeithD]

Simple:
Give her bugger all for a few weeks, tell her money is tight at the moment your end. If she loves you in anyway, she'll hang around.

[aromulus]

The down side is that I'm suspicious and can't quite bring myself to trust S is because of her frequent requests for money for this or that necessary expense. Recently she asked for 3500 pesos and I wired her 8500. Her gratitude seemed sincere, but after not hearing from her for a few days, she told me last night that she had been robbed of both that money and her pay as she was making her way home in a jeepney late at night. Now today, it's money to pay the water bill and confirmation clothes for her daughter!
Thanks!

Not so long ago it was posted on this forum, by a member, that his wife had been robbed at gun point.

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....hlight=jeepney

Let's face it, it happens in the Philippines like it happens in Paduka, Ohio.
So nothing strange there apart from the shock the panic, the scare, and the relief of being still alive and in one piece.

Give the lady the benefit of the doubt for now, and find out slowly what her precise intentions in regard to the LDR are.
Keep a tight rein on the money for a while, profess some hardship or the other, IRS or what have you... to check wether she is treating you like her personal banker or otherwise.
If she mentioned her "pay", it might not be all lost on your front, it could be a genuine claim, as Pinays are extremely good at budgeting the home finances and she is panicking because the Confirmation or First communion clothes for the child are of paramount importance to her.
And if it is true, the clothes will have been made to order,(and awaiting payment on collection) to show family pride in the child's most important day. And if so, they won't cost a cent less than a couple of thousand pesos.
To re-iterate....
Give her a chance or three, just enough rope .. so that she might hang herself with... or not, which ever is the case.

Most important tho....
Go back there and talk face to face with her..... Besides it will come useful as proof of relationship...
Nothing beats that....

Good luck.
Welcome aboard

[andypaul]

Not so long ago it was posted on this forum, by a member, that his wife had been robbed at gun point.

http://filipinaroses.com/showthread....hlight=jeepney

Let's face it, it happens in the Philippines like it happens in Paduka, Ohio.
So nothing strange there apart from the shock the panic, the scare, and the relief of being still alive and in one piece.

Give the lady the benefit of the doubt for now, and find out slowly what her precise intentions in regard to the LDR are.
Keep a tight rein on the money for a while, profess some hardship or the other, IRS or what have you... to check wether she is treating you like her personal banker or otherwise.
If she mentioned her "pay", it might not be all lost on your front, it could be a genuine claim, as Pinays are extremely good at budgeting the home finances and she is panicking because the Confirmation or First communion clothes for the child are of paramount importance to her.
And if it is true, the clothes will have been made to order,(and awaiting payment on collection) to show family pride in the child's most important day. And if so, they won't cost a cent less than a couple of thousand pesos.
To re-iterate....
Give her a chance or three, just enough rope .. so that she might hang herself with... or not, which ever is the case.

Most important tho....
Go back there and talk face to face with her..... Besides it will come useful as proof of relationship...
Nothing beats that....

Good luck.
Welcome aboard

Some puka advice there its better to send a little money to see what happens far cheaper than a P.I.

[baboyako]

...and I marry my filipina this coming Saturday!

good luck there Peter

[andypaul]

Indeed, doubts are part and parcel of any ldr, particularly between a westerner and a filipina, where money will frequently be the issue.

About 3 days before my second visit, I was woken at 3am in the UK with an urgent request for P25k to (part)pay for a Caesarian op for sister-in-law. I found that a difficult time - particularly being disoriented by the early wakening. Yes, I did send the money, and little Jarrell is now 7 months old. Without the op he, his mother, or both, would almost certainly not have survived.

Life is tough for most filipinos, and money is always in short supply. Most filipinos live on utang. However, unlike westerners, who borrow money because they want a bigger, better, faster, car, or the latest plasma tv, a filipino borrows money for the absolute essentials of life.

If you believe in your relationship with this girl, and you can afford the money, then go ahead and send it.

As for my story ... I have now left the UK - sold up everything there - in order to live in Phils, and I marry my filipina this coming Saturday!

Congrats to you both and i must from what i have read say you don't hang about

[chino]

My GF has also been robbed :( it's not uncommon like everyone has said though it's only happened once and if it happened again i would be thinking something is not right....

[aromulus]

My GF has also been robbed :( it's not uncommon like everyone has said though it's only happened once and if it happened again i would be thinking something is not right....

The only things that are guaranteed not to strike twice at the same place are lightnings and death...

Everything else, in my view, can be classified as statistics....

In the immortal words of Forrest Gump.....

"Poo happens".....

[WaiGuoRen]

Thanks, everyone. The advice has been solid. I wouldn't have any place to turn otherwise. Friends would think I've gone bonkers if I told them this story.

About S, she lives with her daughter, mom and brother. There are numerous relatives about and she seems to know everybody. She isn't working right now. She left her job not long after we met, which I'm not unhappy about. (I won't elaborate.)

So, of course, she needs money. But what I find bothersome are the few instances in which motives were at best disingenous. For example, auntie needs 500 pesos; she'll pay you back tomorrow. When tomorrow comes, no mention of the 500 pesos. Then, the next day, I hear Auntie used the money to buy asthma medicine for brother, etc. If someone needs medicine, they could simply say so. Is this sort of mini-scam a way of saving face? Little instances like this have a cumulative effect of breeding mistrust.

I've taken on a lot with S. I'm going back down there at the end of this month to see her for four days. I have both to keep a little faith and my mouth shut for a while. I'm willing to work at this and give it some time. If it does work, I'd consider a move to Philippines.

And yes, good luck, PeterB and your soon-to-be wife!

[fred]

I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her with money after that story..But then that is easy for me to say considering that I am not emotionally involved.
We see situations like this on a regular basis (in our apartment building) with certain girls getting mugged at least twice a month to raise more cash from their boyfriends/husbands so that they can lavish their real lovers with little luxuries etc.
If you have her investigated,you are almost sure to find out that there was no robbery and you may well find out a whole lot more too..
At the very least have her story checked out at the Police station that dealt with this "complaint".
Im sorry to be so blunt but I do believe you are either dating a scammer or just someone that thinks that you have so much cash that it wont make any difference to you anyway.
Its nothing to do with culture..Just bad up bringing.
If I am wrong then that would be great..I truly hope that I am.

[chino]

aromulus - very true (saying that i am sure that many people have been hit by lightning)

Fred you cannot have this view on anyone who gets robbed do you?

[aromulus]

I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her with money after that story..But then that is easy for me to say considering that I am not emotionally involved.
We see situations like this on a regular basis (in our apartment building) with certain girls getting mugged at least twice a month to raise more cash from their boyfriends/husbands so that they can lavish their real lovers with little luxuries etc.
If you have her investigated,you are almost sure to find out that there was no robbery and you may well find out a whole lot more too..
At the very least have her story checked out at the Police station that dealt with this "complaint".
Im sorry to be so blunt but I do believe you are either dating a scammer or just someone that thinks that you have so much cash that it wont make any difference to you anyway.
Its nothing to do with culture..Just bad up bringing.
If I am wrong then that would be great..I truly hope that I am.

As you probably have realized, Fred, I am usually very suspicious about various claims of dubious hardship.
But in this case, for now, I would be willing to give a little more rope.
As long as no more money changes hands for a while, just to see where it leads.
For some strange reason I cannot sense the red flags waving in the wind at the moment. But as it has often been the case, I could well be wrong in the assumption.

[IanB]

My gf was robbed too - while walking along the street after collecting money at Western Union. Muggers are not random - they spot people with cash and target them. From that day onwards, if I send her money, her neighbour takes her to WU on a motorbike and they go straight home together.

Ian

[baboyako]

No robberies here.. but I've had the money for medicine, money for milk powder, money for field trip, money for prom clothes, even sat at the dinner table and someone told me they had only a few months to live & needed a new kidney

You need to draw the line somewhere, and don't accept the 'but its my cousin' crap.

Next time try the cellphone test -'why dont you sell your cellphone & get a nokia 1100, then give them that money'...

You will find out with an earful of abuse that the medicine isn't so important..

[Mrs.JMajor]

Simple:
Give her bugger all for a few weeks, tell her money is tight at the moment your end. If she loves you in anyway, she'll hang around.

i second the motion.....and just to make my words as short coz most members says their opinions...i dont believe she loves you dont get hurt for what i said but we real filipina who loves our man ...for sure many filipina members will agree to me...we never or rather we didnt asked for money

[joebloggs]

don't mention money to me


for a few years i must have kept the philippine economy going

like others on here, i had requests for money for nearly everything, a few times i thought i was being scammed , maybe used is the right word, most of what she told me, looking back now, was true, but i can't see how she spent all the money i sent her over the years, as she did'nt spend it on herself, i've got an idea where most of it went or should i say who to ...

but it can be a bottomless pit , best thing i did was marry her, and send her out to work, funny now she moans and limits what we send to the phils each month now

[fred]

As you probably have realized, Fred, I am usually very suspicious about various claims of dubious hardship.
But in this case, for now, I would be willing to give a little more rope.
As long as no more money changes hands for a while, just to see where it leads.
For some strange reason I cannot sense the red flags waving in the wind at the moment. But as it has often been the case, I could well be wrong in the assumption.

Aromolus..

As I say..I hope you are right,its just that I have seen and heard so many bogus robbery reports just lately that it makes me very sceptical.
Today we had one of our tenants come back from overseas from a 6 month trip and kicked his GF out without notice. This girl has been held up 3 times in the last 2 months and he has had to repay all the rent money that she used to replace all the stolen phones plus the 4 months unpaid utility bills etc. This is not an isolated case example.

Fred you cannot have this view on anyone who gets robbed do you?

I did believe one girl here once that was mugged whilst walking out alone at gone 10.00 pm..(not advisable)
She was visibly shaken and the holduppers hand prints were still on her arms .She also asked me to take her to the Police station to file a report..

[WaiGuoRen]

On the way home from work today I was feeling annoyed about her asking for money a second time--after the robbery. She was due to call at 7 to make arrangements for the following day at Western Union. I solicited the advice of a couple of friends beforehand, one more experienced in these matter than the other. Both said to leave her. I impulsively called and canceled my airline tickets for later this month.

When I spoke to her I told her that what was going on didn't feel right, that it wasn't working out between us. She immediately put on her tough girl demeanor, but this quickly fell away and she began to cry, but still saying she didn't need me. And right away I went to butter, soon assuring her how much I loved her (absolutely true). Then we had one of our heartfelt talks. I can only accept her feelings as genuine. I assured her that I would still be coming down to see her later this month.

Now I have to reinstate my canceled airline tickets to get down there. It still may not seem quite right, but I cannot doubt her feelings for me. And now I've asked to marry me and she has accepted. I want everything to be settled between so that we can be together.

As you can imagine, all of this is driving me nuts. If she could find a job, waiting tables or whatever, I'd gladly make up the difference so that she and her family could get by. It's all of these requests--and my not knowing what is going on--that get to me. I know some of you might say I shouldn't be so mistrustful of her. Though I feel like I'm constantly teetering between the two sides, I have to find some way to trust her for now. It seems that I don't have a choice.

[Deejay]

don't mention money to me


for a few years i must have kept the philippine economy going

like others on here, i had requests for money for nearly everything, a few times i thought i was being scammed , maybe used is the right word, most of what she told me, looking back now, was true, but i can't see how she spent all the money i sent her over the years, as she did'nt spend it on herself, i've got an idea where most of it went or should i say who to ...

but it can be a bottomless pit , best thing i did was marry her, and send her out to work, funny now she moans and limits what we send to the phils each month now

this has a certain ring of truth to it , that its amazing :P

[joebloggs]

ring of truth, its the whole truth and nothing but the truth

as for scams , those who didn't watch

"to catch a love rat", both parts are on the ITV website

part 1 was on ITV 1 on the 11/02/2008

and

part 2 was on ITV 1 on the 15/02/2008

http://www.itv.com/Watchnow/CatchUp/default.html

as mentioned in a different post

those little

[WaiGuoRen]

Yeah, I'm going to take a few pages from joebloggs book and go for it. I wouldn't know what I'd do if I hadn't found this place. Maybe it's wrong, maybe it won't work out, I don't know. It's a throw of the dice, but I have to pursue this.

[PeterB]

A few things here ....
First of all, the average filipino/filipina will 'reallocate' funds according to where the most urgent demand is coming from.

Secondly, it is not unusual in their the culture that a single filipina will give up her job (and move back home to parents, if she'd been living away) when a meaningful relationship starts.

Filipinas are tough - they will get by, somehow, with, or without, you - with, or without, your money. However, if the relationship is genuine, a filipina will be devoted to you for life.

I think that you are doing the right thing ... go back to see her again - a second visit can 'cement' a relationship. It won't necessarily remove all doubts, but it should bring you closer. I wish you both all the best.

[ginapeterb]

This is of course the all too familiar story as such is life in the Philippines

Utang Utang Utang, how would they ever cope with life without it, like so many have indicated, many young ladies would never survive without the availability of Utang, and then they owe so much money for the basic essentials in life, they have to have a nice ATM machine to put the balance sheet back to normal.

When a foreigner tells me he feels like an ATM Machine, I always say, Welcome on board

Urgent requests for cash injections are a common feature of most Kano - Filipina or Brit-Filipina relationships, the simple math tells you that one of the parties to that relationship is generally poor, the other is reasonable rich by Filipino standards.

It would be unfair to stereo type all Filipina's into the same pidgeon hole and say that they are all after an ATM Machine to put right their financial lifestyle, however, as Miss Gina often volunteers to me when we chat about this subject:

"If a girl is poor, naturally, she would seek a boyfriend, or future husband who can take care of her, and finance her, why would she struggle through life, if she has good looks, is sweet, and can make a man happy"

For girls with young children or young child as in this case, she has to think of not just herself but also her daughter's future, if she met a nice kano, and he is good to her, she may reason that her chances of a better life has increased and that she would pursue the situation vigorously, she naturally assumes that since he is rich, her requests for some financial help are not unreasonable, assuming of course that a sexual relationship is in place, after all, thats the sort of thing her boyfriend would be doing, if he was a Filipino.

The problem with the story about being robbed of the money at Western Union, is also quite a common story, it can of course happen, robbers do loiter about at Western Union offices, and know that girls coming out, are generally picking up money from remittances sent.

In this case, its very hard to know if this story is true or false, I have sent money via western union over a 2 year period and never once did Miss Gina tell me that she had been robbed of the money and I had to replace it.

So i am somewhat sceptical of this young ladies story, it can happen, but it seems to happening more and more.

I was only remarking this morning to Miss Gina when we discussed this story that if I dated a girl here in UK, I doubt whether she would be asking me for £70.00 to pay her water bill after a week of dating her, I suppose its unlikely also that she would be asking me for £100.00 for confirmation clothes for her daughter either.

This is the dilemma for most western guys, whilst they expect to pay out some amounts of money, often they are unable to cope with the frequent life threatening requests for financial assistance that seem to follow the minute after they become comfortable with a girl, this is the reality of life in the Philippines.

And I can tell this guy now, it doesn't stop here right now, it goes on and on and on forever, I once had a conversation with the wife of a very good friend of mine, she is also Filipino.

One day we were all in the car and I asked her "XXX when does the remittances and urgent requests stop ?"

She said to me "It never stops Pete, it goes on and on and on, and quite frankly, sometimes, it sucks !"

Well I was kind of shocked, that she would use that phrase, in other words, she understood that people in the Philippines were depending on her, but sometime she just thought, I need a break from this, but of course a break never comes.

So for this guy, once you start down this path, be prepared, because this never stops, there will always be something that needs attending to, and yes it will come out of your hard earned money, and anyway,

What are you for but if not to pay !

Best of Luck...Pete always tells it as it is....he doesnt complain, he simply accepts the reality of life.

[fred]

Pete..In actual fact it does stop.
It stops when you decide to say "Sorry,no more".


The Mrs stopped the drain on our expenses when she realised that sending her family money was not actually doing them any good.
We tried to think of ways to help by giving them opportunities to work and so we went over and helped them finance small businesses..
This proved useless and each business went under with very little explanation..Only excuses.
My wife felt a bit guilty for the first 6 months of not sending cash but after that period she began to say "stuff them".. That was 15 years ago .
We sent money to help some of the kids with education etc and sent a balikbayan box for Christmas but that was it..
If any of them need money these days they know they will have to work for it at local wages and we no longer get these requests.. Which is nice..
Sorry,I lie..My brother in law came to visit 3 weeks back and asked for 1,000 PHP. I gave him some paint brushes,a roller and 3 gallons of paint and asked him to redecorate one of our one bedroom units..
In all fairness he did a good job in only 2 days.
Most Filipinas living abroad expect that their families will grow to hate them if regular funds are withdrawn..
We have found that the opposite is the case. They show us more respect now than they ever did.