Advice on relationship

[squareeyes]

Hi,

My story is a little different from most people's here. Briefly, I'm not sure if I've offended a Filipina friend of mine and ruined our friendship by showing a romantic interest.

I started work in a new place early last year. In there was a young lady from the Philippines (S) who's been in this country for a few years. Often we would be the only people there at the end of the day and we would talk for hours (with me at least staying far longer than I needed to) about all sorts of subjects: from stuff like the kinds of films we enjoy, what things we do when on holiday, what things interest us outside of work and how we spend our evenings through to deeper stuff like our families, the kind of motivations we have for doing things, the importance of our families and how we relate to them, what kind of people we are. She even asked how many children I plan on having and described weddings in the Philippines after asking about the UK versions. There were signs of interest from her as well: laughing too much at even my poor jokes, asking my advice about difficult matters in her life, her body language, mirroring, lots of compliments, etc. btw, S is 4 years younger than me.

To cut this short, I began thinking of her romantically recently. A couple of weeks ago I got back I asked her out for a date. She asked if it was a group thing and I said no just me and her. She said she had someone already and didn't want to lead me on. I apologised and said I would never have asked if I'd known, which is very true.

Although I was okay at the time, since then I've been concerned because I read somewhere that asking a lady from the Philippines out on a date like that (ie, just the two of us) implies that she's easy which is so far from what I think of her. I really just wanted to get to know her better because we seem to have so much in common (something I realised even when I didn't think of her romantically) and I respect her deeply.

I apologised to her by email (because of work I wouldn't see her for a while) and when we next met she said it was okay but I've noticed a genuine change in our friendship, even though most of it probably stems from me feeling awkward at possibly having insulted her. She seems friendly enough but something's changed and I can't quite put my finger on it.

So I would like a cultural opinion off some women here from the Philippines. S is quite used to western culture, but a persons native culture runs deep. Is it likely that I've offended her and she's being too nice to tell me if she felt I had taken advantage of our friendship? If so, it's also hard to know how to apologise properly to her (and maybe it's best left)? I'm also curious as to why she never mentioned anyone else given that we covered virtually everything else.

[deepete]

I&#96;ll give you the cultural opinion of a Londoner, I didnt meet my wife through a friendship club or penpal, but while I was working where she was studying in London. I am a lot older than her and ugly, she is drop dead gorgeous, but when has that ever mattered, we had a laugh, I gave her some chat and 18 years and 2 kids later she still sulks if I dont kiss her goodbye when I leave the house. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

You gave it a shot, give it another go, if she still doesnt want to know then move on. Dont make too much of cultural differences, you cant spend your life worrying about upsetting her culture or her feelings, you have feelings aswell. Maybe she doesnt fancy you in that way, maybe she really doesnt want any involvement and complications, could be any number of reasons.

Peter [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/BouncyHappy.gif[/img]

[kristleh]

Things are changing and many do not view women who date, instead of asking the guy to court her, as easy or just for "short time". Some are even post-modernist about it, just like a couple except for the commitment part. There are many reasons why she&#39;s different all of a sudden but the way I see it,
it&#39;s not definitely because she thought you took advantage of her friendship or she was insulted and felt you disrespected her by asking her on a date. I&#39;m not good in reading women&#39;s mind but I guess the best thing to do is really talk to her. She probably won&#39;t entirely tell the reason behind the change but at least you
will have an idea. Some people (or maybe Filipinas in particular) wait for the other people to approach them first whether it concerns friendship, money, etc. Talk to her and maybe have things the way they were
and maybe later on, be able to be more than friends. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

[ivor&mel]

You touched on something that I have wondered about: how universal is "body language"? It&#39;s my experience that there are significant differences in interpretation of body signals between East and West. It&#39;s not something that I would rely on to judge my chances&#33;

I can only echo Kristleh&#39;s advice: talk to her without trying to come on strong... and take your time... Maybe she has no-one else but said that to avoid hurting your feelings? Who knows? Could you not try inviting her out again, but as part of a foursome in a situation where she would feel comfortable and safe?

Ivor and Mel

[Pauldo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ivor&mel &#064; May 13 2006, 09&#58;45 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
You touched on something that I have wondered about: how universal is "body language"? It&#39;s my experience that there are significant differences in interpretation of body signals between East and West. It&#39;s not something that I would rely on to judge my chances&#33;

I can only echo Kristleh&#39;s advice: talk to her without trying to come on strong... and take your time... Maybe she has no-one else but said that to avoid hurting your feelings? Who knows? Could you not try inviting her out again, but as part of a foursome in a situation where she would feel comfortable and safe?

Ivor and Mel
[/b][/quote]
There was a time, back when I first started going to the Philippines, when no self respecting girl would go out with a guy without a chaperone coming along. Maybe things have changed for some modernistic Filipinas in the last fifteen years, but maybe not for all.

&#39;S&#39; might well have taken the mention that it was to be a &#39;two person rendezvous&#39; as meaning it was going to be straight off to the short time room. Who knows?

There are an awful lot of discreet short time hotels in most towns in the Philippines, where couples do go, chaperoneless, specifically for illicit meetings (matings?) with persons they shouldn&#39;t really be seen with in public.

Perhaps the girl is not aware that in the UK the custom is not to have a family member or friend tagging along on the first 40 or 50 dates?

[kristleh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pauldo &#064; May 14 2006, 05&#58;11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
There was a time, back when I first started going to the Philippines, when no self respecting girl would go out with a guy without a chaperone coming along. Maybe things have changed for some modernistic Filipinas in the last fifteen years, but maybe not for all.

[/b][/quote]

Things really have changed. But of course, there are still those who prefer the traditional way. Even in my province (Negros Oriental), people rarely have chaperones when they are out with a guy. Some people now do speed dating. I don&#39;t know how it exactly goes but you get the idea. In my opinion, it&#39;s good that Filipinos are now more open. They no longer just consider courting as the only way to get to a woman&#39;s heart, or a man if it is the women doing the "diga". Besides, courting usually involves the "best-foot-forward phase" so why bother. But to each is his own. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

[deepete]

Havent you strayed from the point here, we are talking about a man asking out a Filipina who has lived here for some years in our culture, not some timid girl from the provinces. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Erm.gif[/img]

[kristleh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(deepete &#064; May 14 2006, 08&#58;32 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Havent you strayed from the point here, we are talking about a man asking out a Filipina who has lived here for some years in our culture, not some timid girl from the provinces. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Erm.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

Sorry, boss, I was just merely trying to share something that has connection with what was said by Paul.
I was giving him the Pinoy side, ok? She is after all a Filipina even if she has already spend some time in the UK, she might still hold on to her beliefs. It&#39;s rather hard to unlearn one&#39;s traditions and beliefs.

[deepete]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kristleh &#064; May 14 2006, 10&#58;05 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Sorry, boss, I was just merely trying to share something that has connection with what was said by Paul.
I was giving him the Pinoy side, ok? She is after all a Filipina even if she has already spend some time in the UK, she might still hold on to her beliefs. It&#39;s rather hard to unlearn one&#39;s traditions and beliefs.
[/b][/quote]


It wasnt meant to be personal, just that the whole thread seemed to have been shifted to the P.I.

When in Rome do as the romans do [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

[kristleh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(deepete &#064; May 14 2006, 09&#58;53 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
It wasnt meant to be personal, just that the whole thread seemed to have been shifted to the P.I.

When in Rome do as the romans do [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

Let&#39;s say a Roman decides to move to France. He is still a Roman. If a French wants to understand the Roman no matter how long he had stayed in France, undestanding what Rome is like will help the French understand the Roman. To cut the crap short, undestanding the Philippines (its culture and current situation) will help Bill understand &#39;S&#39; no matter where &#39;S&#39; is now. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

[Pauldo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(deepete &#064; May 14 2006, 10&#58;53 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
It wasnt meant to be personal, just that the whole thread seemed to have been shifted to the P.I.

[/b][/quote]

I&#39;d guess she spent minimum 90% of her life in the Philippines, so I guess that the Philippines has at least an inkling of a connection to the thread?

If not, why are we even discussing the girl, as it&#39;d be a problem with a stodgy stuck up English girl who was born overseas, and thus of no relevence to this forum [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

We&#39;re just trying to give Bill some background to the Filipino psyche. (No, NOT &#39;psycho&#39; [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Grin.gif[/img] )

[squareeyes]

Well thanks to everyone who wrote back with advice. S is quite cosmopolitan and modern thinking and I don&#39;t think she&#39;s too traditional in her outlook (or rather: understands and accepts that she&#39;s in a different culture). I was more curious as to whether I had committed a major faux pas by asking her out when I&#39;m a colleague. We chatted earlier today and she seems to be fine although she&#39;s giving me more quick glances than before - maybe she&#39;s a bit unsure and not saying. However, there&#39;s no way to tell what&#39;s on a Pinay&#39;s mind if she doesn&#39;t want to talk about it&#33; [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

I would like to ask her out again, but it just seems inappropriate esp. as the only time we get to talk is at work. I guess I will just have to take this one as experience and begin elsewhere. I don&#39;t have a problem getting dates at all (I have a good job, I&#39;m attractive, sociable, funny, not a complete idiot though I&#39;m not a wimp, faithful, etc) but S seems so different to anyone else I&#39;ve ever met (and I work with folk from around the world). Real shame as we got on so well and had lots in common and I&#39;ve never felt like I could trust anyone as much as her.

Thanks again and the best to you all.

B

[squareeyes]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill &#064; May 17 2006, 08&#58;27 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
...
(I have a good job, I&#39;m attractive, sociable, funny, not a complete idiot though I&#39;m not a wimp, faithful, etc)
[/b][/quote]

Oops - just realised that what I wrote sounds a bit arrogant&#33; Apologies if it is&#33;

[ivor&mel]

(I have a good job, I'm attractive, sociable, funny, not a complete idiot though I'm not a wimp, faithful, etc)

Oops - just realised that what I wrote sounds a bit arrogant! Apologies if it is!

Even if you had commited a faux pas, it doesn't have to be terminal? Show S your CV

[angina_pectoris]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill &#064; May 17 2006, 08&#58;27 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Well thanks to everyone who wrote back with advice. S is quite cosmopolitan and modern thinking and I don&#39;t think she&#39;s too traditional in her outlook (or rather: understands and accepts that she&#39;s in a different culture). I was more curious as to whether I had committed a major faux pas by asking her out when I&#39;m a colleague. We chatted earlier today and she seems to be fine although she&#39;s giving me more quick glances than before - maybe she&#39;s a bit unsure and not saying. However, there&#39;s no way to tell what&#39;s on a Pinay&#39;s mind if she doesn&#39;t want to talk about it&#33; [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

I would like to ask her out again, but it just seems inappropriate esp. as the only time we get to talk is at work. I guess I will just have to take this one as experience and begin elsewhere. I don&#39;t have a problem getting dates at all (I have a good job, I&#39;m attractive, sociable, funny, not a complete idiot though I&#39;m not a wimp, faithful, etc) but S seems so different to anyone else I&#39;ve ever met (and I work with folk from around the world). Real shame as we got on so well and had lots in common and I&#39;ve never felt like I could trust anyone as much as her.

Thanks again and the best to you all.

B
[/b][/quote]

Hi,

I’m a (married) Filipina and I have lived in the UK for nearly four years now, but like what other people were saying in this forum. No matter how long a Filipina stayed in another country she won’t forget her culture, but of course she’ll learn to adapt other culture as well.

To be frank, you’ve got to undersstand most Filipinas want to play “hard to get” (pakipot in Tagalog) sometimes “no” means “yes”. You just have to beg for her attention, make her feel like a princess… the most important woman in the world… then, suddenly stay away from her or avoid her for few months. If she started to chase you then she was just trying to play hard to get and when she realised that you are fed up and you are ready to give up then she’ll come around… if she doesn’t… then it’s obvious she only wants you as a friend.

It might work, give it a try&#33; Good luck&#33;

[squareeyes]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(angina_pectoris &#064; May 17 2006, 08&#58;58 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Hi,

I’m a (married) Filipina and I have lived in the UK for nearly four years now, but like what other people were saying in this forum. No matter how long a Filipina stayed in another country she won’t forget her culture, but of course she’ll learn to adapt other culture as well.

To be frank, you’ve got to undersstand most Filipinas want to play “hard to get” (pakipot in Tagalog) sometimes “no” means “yes”. You just have to beg for her attention, make her feel like a princess… the most important woman in the world… then, suddenly stay away from her or avoid her for few months. If she started to chase you then she was just trying to play hard to get and when she realised that you are fed up and you are ready to give up then she’ll come around… if she doesn’t… then it’s obvious she only wants you as a friend.

It might work, give it a try&#33; Good luck&#33;
[/b][/quote]

Thanks for the encouragement AP and others. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

I had a long chat with S this afternoon but nothing serious. I really don&#39;t feel comfortable asking her out again even if it&#39;s a group &#39;event&#39;. The work situation makes things unfair to her if I persist. That&#39;s something I cannot compromise on esp because the dynamic (chemistry) is a bit different now - sometimes aloof, other times close and personal - but maybe that&#39;s me falling in love with her and seeing more than is there. I really want to believe that&#39;s it&#39;s just because she&#39;s playing hard to get (pakipot), but the truth is I&#39;m probably just wrong.

However, she&#39;s now got a job in a different part of the country - that is nothing to do with my recent approach because she&#39;s been looking for a while and decent positions in our field (medicine) are hard to come by. So she&#39;s off in a few weeks (once visa/admin arrangements are finalised). I truly wish her all the best even though (or because&#33 I know that I&#39;ve never met anyone like her in all of my life and (probably) never will again. I&#39;ve got to admit that I&#39;m really going to miss her smile, her laugh, our long chats, the way she says my name, her rich voice, etc. Sorry, just rambling. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

Thanks though.