Philippine Law - is it criminal or civil

[joroco]

After I first joined this forum a couple of weeks ago and browsing through some older threads, I was shocked to discover the case of David Scott, learning that adultery was a crime rather than a civil matter. Although not particularly promiscuous myself, it is still very worrying that you could be jailed for such an act for a longer period (7 years) than you might be jailed in the UK for robbery!

Now I see that yesterday a newspaper proprietor and editor-in-chief (Daily Tribune) has been jailed for between 6 months and two years for an item in her paper that was deemed to be libel. In addition to that she was fined P5 million. As the proprietor, she almost certainly did not actually pen the story. Presumably, a case for damages will now follow by the victim.

Regardless of the merits of the case, I find it unbelievable to learn that a country which claims to be free and democratic, and has a constitution modelled on the US system, criminalises matters which in any decent society should be a matter for civil courts.

Well that's two types of offence in two weeks. Maybe you could enlighten me on just how many OTHER matters that we Brits assume are civil matters are in fact criminal cases.

[Piamed]

......it is still very worrying that you could be jailed for such an act for a longer period (7 years) than you might be jailed in the UK for robbery!.

I know where you are are coming from but do note that in most common law countries Crime against property and White collar crimes CAN in some instances get you a much larger sentence than rape and murder - make sense of that if you can!

Now I see that yesterday a newspaper proprietor and editor-in-chief (Daily Tribune) has been jailed for between 6 months and two years for an item in her paper that was deemed to be libel. In addition to that she was fined P5 million. As the proprietor, she almost certainly did not actually pen the story. Presumably, a case for damages will now follow by the victim.

Regardless of the merits of the case, I find it unbelievable to learn that a country which claims to be free and democratic, and has a constitution modelled on the US system, criminalises matters which in any decent society should be a matter for civil courts.

Does the fact that we can release an obviously guilty party in the criminal courts and then find them guilty on excatly the same evidence in the civil court, attest to us being a decent society? Similarly, does the fact that another country has differing laws to our own and even differing interpretations of laws we have in common, make their society less decent than our own? I would suggest not and don't suppose you do either. And btw, the American constitution bears many things that many Americans are not proud of. Quite frankly, any argument that posits it as a stellar example will be fraught with fundamental flaws in my opinion. Consider the constitutional right to bear arms, if you will. Just my thoughts

[keithAngel]

Just noticed this thread and would make the point that if you travel in the far east or closer to home and are caught trafficking you may face stiff penalties up to and including death ,this is widely known and publicised I have never however seen this warning about adultery on any tourist site or Filipino embassy site and in my view this is the problem.

All countries are free to have whatever laws they like (as long as it doesn't interfere with oil)but they should be proud enough to publicly shout there "Moral high ground " position so that it is clear to us and we can then not get inadvertently put in the position of breaking them through ignorance or become victims of a shakedown.

[Sangoma]

After I first joined this forum a couple of weeks ago and browsing through some older threads, I was shocked to discover the case of David Scott, learning that adultery was a crime rather than a civil matter. Although not particularly promiscuous myself, it is still very worrying that you could be jailed for such an act for a longer period (7 years) than you might be jailed in the UK for robbery!

Now I see that yesterday a newspaper proprietor and editor-in-chief (Daily Tribune) has been jailed for between 6 months and two years for an item in her paper that was deemed to be libel. In addition to that she was fined P5 million. As the proprietor, she almost certainly did not actually pen the story. Presumably, a case for damages will now follow by the victim.

Regardless of the merits of the case, I find it unbelievable to learn that a country which claims to be free and democratic, and has a constitution modelled on the US system, criminalises matters which in any decent society should be a matter for civil courts.

Well that's two types of offence in two weeks. Maybe you could enlighten me on just how many OTHER matters that we Brits assume are civil matters are in fact criminal cases.

I think making adultery a criminal offence is an excellent idea. Good for them.

If people were "decent" they wouldn't commit adultery, by doing so they make it so that the society isn't decent, so I would say thay have more of a decent society.

Adultery is as forbidden as stealing and murder, it is against one of the ten commandments.

[joroco]

Matters such as adultery are the business of individuals, however repugnant they may seem to others. Such laws are a production of a nanny-state, whereby the Government takes complete control of the lives of the individual. Keith Angel claimed they were showing the "moral high ground". One only has to note the hundreds of people kidnapped in recent years by the army for their political beliefs, or the 23 activists murdered in Manila during the local elections campaign last year or indeed the never-ending news of corruption in Government and business to appreciate that whatever the motives of law makers there is precious little morality among the political or industrial luminaries of this country.

[Piamed]

Just noticed this thread and would make the point that if you travel in the far east or closer to home and are caught trafficking you may face stiff penalties up to and including death ,this is widely known and publicised I have never however seen this warning about adultery on any tourist site or Filipino embassy site and in my view this is the problem.

All countries are free to have whatever laws they like (as long as it doesn't interfere with oil)but they should be proud enough to publicly shout there "Moral high ground " position so that it is clear to us and we can then not get inadvertently put in the position of breaking them through ignorance or become victims of a shakedown.

I agree completely!

I think making adultery a criminal offence is an excellent idea. Good for them.

If people were "decent" they wouldn't commit adultery, by doing so they make it so that the society isn't decent, so I would say thay have more of a decent society.

Adultery is as forbidden as stealing and murder, it is against one of the ten commandments.

Precisely! If people don't have a faith, they still usually abide by some form of moral code which invariably stands against immorality. People sometimes make excuses to suit their own perceptions and purposes.

Matters such as adultery are the business of individuals, however repugnant they may seem to others. Such laws are a production of a nanny-state, whereby the Government takes complete control of the lives of the individual. Keith Angel claimed they were showing the "moral high ground". One only has to note the hundreds of people kidnapped in recent years by the army for their political beliefs, or the 23 activists murdered in Manila during the local elections campaign last year or indeed the never-ending news of corruption in Government and business to appreciate that whatever the motives of law makers there is precious little morality among the political or industrial luminaries of this country.

Anything that affects enough individuals ultimately affects a society. A society is made up of individuals who collectively have appointed a Government and a voice often expressed in law. Do you need need further evidence of how adultery and infidelity has affected our society? There was a documentary a year or so ago about parental discrepancy. It is estimated that over 1,000,000 men in the US are raising kids they think are theirs by blood but are in fact not. What are your thoughts about what should be done about that?

How many people have been abused because of their race, colour, accent and creed in the West this year? Are you suggesting that there is not never-ending news of corruption in our own Government here, and in business here? What are your comparative measures of morality and how have you arrived at your benchmarks?

Every country has issues. I don't think its appropriate to suggest that any one country is better than any other overall. Every country, society, culture etc. has its own appeal to various individuals.

This is just my view!

[misscarie]

[QUOTE=Sangoma;71035] it is against one of the ten commandments.[QUOTE]

[andypaul]

Surely the 2nd commandment about idols means most Catholics would be banged up in phill?

I speak as a not very up with it Christain so may have the wrong end of the stick.

'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

does that mean if GMA or any other phill has a Carving of jesus she could be banged up?

[andypaul]

Then what about number ten?

'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

If you say oh there are nice shoes i want a pair then you could get nicked also?

As many of phill are arch consumers surely many people of the country should be banged up?



Number 4 about

'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Why do most phills go shopping and appear to carry on as normal surely most must be banged up again?

[keithAngel]

Matters such as adultery are the business of individuals, however repugnant they may seem to others. Such laws are a production of a nanny-state, whereby the Government takes complete control of the lives of the individual. Keith Angel claimed they were showing the "moral high ground". One only has to note the hundreds of people kidnapped in recent years by the army for their political beliefs, or the 23 activists murdered in Manila during the local elections campaign last year or indeed the never-ending news of corruption in Government and business to appreciate that whatever the motives of law makers there is precious little morality among the political or industrial luminaries of this country.

I believe you have misapprehended me Joroco I said no such thing I said "they should be proud enough to publicly shout there "Moral high ground " position so that it is clear to us"

Where the state enters into dual standards there is no morality and my intention here is irony

This could include warnings on every Philippines tourist website , posters at the airport complete with pictures of the accommodations being offered.Hotel lobbies ect

Perhaps Sangoma could cast the first stone at Adulteress of the week reality shows sure to be popular

[andypaul]

Im think of performing the world largest citzens arrest this sunday at the mall of asia.

Also i will write a strongly worded letter to GMA saying all banks which take or give intrest in Phill should be closed down at once im sure Jesus did not approve of money lenders?

[andypaul]

P.s Folks only pulling peoples legs

I would defend anyones right to belive in a religion and know people all have slightly different beliefs and understandings.

just commenting on the Phill goverment only seems to use the laws/beliefs it likes just like the British Goverment does.

[Piamed]

Surely the 2nd commandment about idols means most Catholics would be banged up in phill?

I speak as a not very up with it Christain so may have the wrong end of the stick.

'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

I'm not Catholic but to help you start to better understand what this scripture means I have copied the following from The Amplified Version:
3You shall have no other gods before or besides Me.

4You shall not make yourself any graven image [to worship it] or any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

5You shall not bow down yourself to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God

Context is everything when trying to understand the scriptures or philosophical departures! The more one reads about any subject, the broader ones understanding.

Then what about number ten?

'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

I guess you are saying this tongue-in-cheek. There is nothing wrong with aspiring to have something you have observed and liked. It would take a long time to do justice to this commandment but the essence is to address excessive and harmful desires that:

Make one self-centred, future focussed to the extent that they don't get joy from where they are now, encourage people to become getters rather than givers, etc. The other issue is the prevention of behaviours that arise from dissatisfaction caused by coveting. Theft, violence, etc.

[andypaul]

Make one self-centred, future focussed to the extent that they don't get joy from where they are now, getters rather than givers, etc. The other issue is the prevention of behaviours that arise from dissatisfaction caused by coveting.

Sounds like quite a few Phills and Brits i have met

I will write to the attonery general in phill tomorrow


The idol one i have had a bit of a google and seems to be a mixture of thoughts what it means. many would not be happy with idols others well make no sense to me.

I also noticed the order of commandements seems to be different on every list i see.

But not yest seen anyone defend the working on the Lords day which surely is ilegal in Phill if other comandments are?

What about the profit making banks, im sure in the depths of christain belive that is a no no but hey ho?

i think most people on here with regards the adultery law example find it strange it seems to only be used agaisnt women and not men? Are not all Gods peeps equal?

Its up to phill to pick and choose its laws fair doo's, but to say yeah ten comandments lets follow them then pop down the shops on a sunday or expect others to work on your behalf seems a bit hipocritical to me

So if any one who says yeah i follow the ten comandements should i expect them to not use any service which forces a person to work on a sunday as its the day of rest


So if i see GMA make a speech on a sunday i will write a very angry letter

[Piamed]

I don't have a problem with profit making. Look at the parable of the talents. I think many devout Muslims do for some several reasons. I going back to footie and willing the French to a win

[andypaul]

I don't have a problem with profit making. Look at the parable of the talents. I think many devout Muslims do for some several reasons. I going back to footie and willing the French to a win

Only joking around

Cracking game

Be intresting to see if Romannia somehow win the game agaisnt holland

Mates tell me the betting already says people thinking the same

[joroco]

Piamed's information "There was a documentary a year or so ago about parental discrepancy. It is estimated that over 1,000,000 men in the US are raising kids they think are theirs by blood but are in fact not. What are your thoughts about what should be done about that?"

That is interesting. We should be glad it's in the USA since it suggests there may be over a million adulterers there who have reaped the seeds they have sown. Back to the original point of this thread, had that statistic applied to the Philippines, I doubt if the prison system could cope with such a number of offenders should they all be prosecuted for adultery!

[keithAngel]

I agree completely!



Precisely! If people don't have a faith, they still usually abide by some form of moral code which invariably stands against immorality. People sometimes make excuses to suit their own perceptions and purposes.



Anything that affects enough individuals ultimately affects a society. A society is made up of individuals who collectively have appointed a Government and a voice often expressed in law. Do you need need further evidence of how adultery and infidelity has affected our society? There was a documentary a year or so ago about parental discrepancy. It is estimated that over 1,000,000 men in the US are raising kids they think are theirs by blood but are in fact not. What are your thoughts about what should be done about that?

How many people have been abused because of their race, colour, accent and creed in the West this year? Are you suggesting that there is not never-ending news of corruption in our own Government here, and in business here? What are your comparative measures of morality and how have you arrived at your benchmarks?

Every country has issues. I don't think its appropriate to suggest that any one country is better than any other overall. Every country, society, culture etc. has its own appeal to various individuals.

This is just my view!

I would say that the logical extension of that view would be to pass a law criminalising desertion or seperation after all that would ensure that individuals would not
affect the clear wishes of the majority who elected there government.

Plus imprison all those who bear false witness in there annulment cases I hope you can see where this is going.

Governments should be about empowering there citizens to as far as possible to decide for themselves what there lives are about and not about control insofar as individual acts of concience go.

With out this there is no freedom of Religeon Or Belief thats the point of free will to choose our own standards

The whole of the law is "do as thou wilt and it harm none"

[Piamed]

Only joking around

Cracking game

Be intresting to see if Romannia somehow win the game agaisnt holland

Mates tell me the betting already says people thinking the same

French lost! Great game though.