Divorce situation...complicated.

[DES]

Hi Pete/All
Thanks for previous advice given and im hoping you will be able to answer my questions again this time, advance thanks for your patience!. Myself and Dee (Filipina) have been married 20 months now and married there in the Philippines, Dee arrived here Dec 2006 just before xmas, sadly the marriage has broken down badly although we still have civil contact and communication-we both have new partners her's a Filipino guy she now lives with in Manchester and i met a great girl last December 2007 through my work there in Manila, now we have both agreed to get a divorce and wish to be seperated in the earliest possible time but my concern is this-as Dee does not have ILR and cannot apply for it until this Nov/Dec if i report to The Home Office that the marriage has broken down then Dee will be inelligable for ILR and will thus be deported which for 1 thing i don't really wish upon her and secondly will make divorce impossible or will certainly complicate it if she's not in the Country plus she holds our Marriage Certificate and unsurprisingly is unwilling to release this to me and so if i dont help her proceed with her ILR it would appear that im shooting myself in the foot as it will make getting a divorce much more complicated with her not here and me not having the Marriage Certificate, also if she goes back home to Philippines of course the option is there to proceed with anullment but again this is more complex, lengthy and costly than a UK County Court divorce, so i know it will be much easier to get divorced here...so under these circumstances should i just keep quiet and help her process her ILR this coming Nov/Dec then once it's been granted wait a couple of months longer before filling for divorce (she has agreed to hand over Marriage Certificate when i sign her ILR) however if by doing this is it going to subsequently count against me should i then wish to marry my current Filipina GF who is there in the Philippines, i know that yes i will legally be free to marry again there once my divorce here is complete but will my circumstances count against me when it comes to applying for future spouse visa?. Could i still divorce my wife here from UK even if she gets deported? especially as mentioned as she holds the marriage certificate or is it just easier to wait and sign her ILR?...lastly did read some scary info regarding potential Tory party changes to immigration law one being that if the UK spouse divorces Foriegn wife/husband after ILR is granted then they will not be able to obtain spouse visa should they remarry a Foriegner for a period of 5-10 years...just hope i can process my divorce and re-marry before they get back into power!. Any advice on the above and the options open to me are gratefully recieved, advance thanks.

[joebloggs]

as Dee does not have ILR and cannot apply for it until this Nov/Dec .

how can you apply for ILR, have you and your wife evidence spread evenly over the past 2 years that you have been living togther ? are you both willing to sign the ILR form stating your still living togther as a married couple, even thou your not..

if you both sign the form and the truth comes out, your wife will be banned from coming to the uk for a long time, even if she gets ILR, if it was obtained by deception it can be revoked ..

you both should think carefully about what your going to do..

[DES]

Having consulted C.A.B and taken some further advice i now realize that i can start divorce proceedings against my wife regardless of weather she stays in the UK-as long as she is here when the papers are first issued by the court, i was concerned as to her "fleeing" home upon recieving the court papers but it now appears even were she to do this it would not delay or affect the divorce process, however it still does not change the fact that she holds the marriage certificate and so i need to be able to obtain a copy to initiate divorce proceedings, anyone got any idea how i go about this as my wife will not give me the original that she holds, can i obtain a copy via British Embassy there in Philippines or direct through the NSO? if so anyone know how i go about this and also how long it is liable to take and the cost of doing this?...what info would the NSO require just mine and my wife's name and date of marriage as well as location ( Davao )...without the marriage certificate im stuck as i cant proceed with the divorce and so am forced into a corner regarding signing her ILR later this year to be able to go ahead with this...and yes i know this is "dodgy ground" thats why i dont want to go down that road unless i really have to.

[Lina Mendoza]

HI Des,
You can obtain marriage contract through NSO online [URL="https://www.ecensus.com.ph/Secure/frmIndex.asp"]https://www.ecensus.com.ph/Secure/frmIndex.asp they will deliver it to you wherever you are by post cost you 20 US dollars. visit their website. good luck

[Lina Mendoza]

www.ecensus.com.ph

[DES]

Thanks Liza, very helpful

[ginapeterb]

Don't let this matter of the NSO Marriage contract stand in your way, if in doubt, I would take a day off work and go to the Philippine Embassy, ask them to assist you in obtaining your foreign marriage certificate, I find it bizarre that your Filipino wife seeks to hold the NSO Contract, if so, for what reason ? clearly if she seeks a divorce, it is quicker if that matter is settled here in the UK.

Providing you have no children, and your income and assets are minimal, you should be able to obtain a no fault divorce pretty quickly, I would also advise you not to seek the help of a solicitor, you will have to pay alll your solicitors costs plus court costs, that can result in thousands of pounds.

It is better and less costlier if you decide to submit the divorce petition yourself, seek help from online organizations, there is a wealth of information on internet these days, and you will need the foreign marriage certificate for it to be dissolved, and as for ILR for your wife ?

What does that concern you ! if you are to divorce, the marriage has failed, and therefore your wife is liable for deportation, I might sound heartless, here, but trust me, there are no friends in divorces, your wife should return back to the Philippines, and that is not your problem, if she is living with a.n. other Filipino in Manchester, let her get out of her own mess.

That is not your concern, if you wish to get on with it, there is no bar to you meeting another lady and starting off afresh, I wish you well with your new lady, just get on with it, you should obtain a quicky divorce in UK pretty quickly, and should have a decree nisi, go down the route of adultery that is always quicker, not unreasonable behaviour, adultery tends to obtain a quicker route, and if your wife won't sign to that effect, you admit to your adultery with a.n.other, or an unamed woman.

Best of luck.

[DES]

Thanks once agin for your help and advice Pete, well it looks straight forward that i can gain a copy of my marriage certificate through the NSO and have it mailed to me via courrier rather quickly, as soon as i have this i can begin the divorce petition. Well your right that im not actually bothered as to if my wife is granted ILR or not as like you say it's not my problem or concern it was just the fact that she was attempting to "blackmail" me before as she was holding the marriage certificate and as you correctly say without it i cant divorce her-i was previously unaware that i could obtain a copy via the NSO so this clears up that problem for me, she was basically saying that she would not release the marriage certificate if i didn't first sign her papers for ILR-obviously fraudulantly!...anyway it now appears that my problem is solved although i still have one concern that being that she may decide not to sign the divorce petition upon recieving it and i dont know then where i will stand in this case especially if she then chose to return straight back to the Philippines without first signing the court papers as she would obviously then realize that she would not be getting ILR but again as you stated this would not then be in her best interests as she would still be legally married to me.

[ginapeterb]

Hello Des,

I find it again kind of truly bizarre that your Filipino wife wants to hang onto the marriage contract issued to you by the Filipino authorities, its in her best interests to allow you to divorce her here in the UK, PERHAPS you should communicate that subtle fact to her, after all, if you divorce her, she can re-marry again, however if she divorces you in a foreign land, (which she cannot do by the way, as the divorce petition whilst valid in UK, is not valid under Philippine law), if she tries to do so, she may not re-marry under Philippine law, and any subsequent marriage would be invalid, she would then run the risk of being arrested for adultery. So before she goes down the loss of face road she seems hell bent on travelling, give her a few home truths to think about.

At the present time, you tell me she is co-habiting with a Filipino, sadly there is not much you can do, however should she be resident in the Philippines, you could approach the Filipino authorities and give her location, she would then be the subject of arrest, (sadly that is not much help in the UK) but food for thought if she decides to run back with her Juan or Wilfredo or whatever his name is.


Make it clear to her, its in her best interests to play ball, and as for ILR, she is not entitled to remain in the United Kingdom any longer, since the whole point of coming to the UK was to settle with her husband, that marriage is not subsisting, in that event the rules state that she will have to return to the country of origin, in the humble words of the toilet wall philospher "tough titty".

You might also wish to contact the Home Office and inform them that your marriage is no longer subsisting and give your wife's current address and location i.e. work address, that would also satisfy your obligations with UK Border and Immigration agency, you would then have complied with your obligations, I would then inform your wife you have done so, I am sure you might get the co-operation you need once you gently nudge her in that direction, say you will withold contacting UK Border and Immigration providing of course she consents to your divorce petition regarding her adultery, quite frankly, your holding all the cards, what are you worried about, knowing Filipinos as I do, i doubt wether she will run the risk of deportation and removal, but tell her from me, Bedford Detention centre is not a very nice place to be, (Which some of our Filipino freinds found out, when they were casually arrested on their way to work recently) which she will find herself, if she is picked up by border and immigration agents.

And yes Des you care quite correct, should you sign the paperwork to say you are man and wife living together, you would be committing a serious immigration offence punishable by up to 2 years imprisonment and or a £2000.00 fine, do you really want to help her to that extent.

I don't see you have a problem having the papers served on her, you can if you want to do so, employ a process server, who will for a small fee, deliver the divorce petition to your loving wife, and then she is deemed to have been served, if she then leaves the jurisdiction of the court, (which I don't believe she will do) then the court will make a determination on the case at the time.

To speed matters up, if I was in your position, I would try to get her to admit her adultery with a.n.other Filipino, if she refuses, then go down the route of unreasonable behaviour, although I must warn you, this can be difficult to substantiate, however, your own adultery should be the best way, this is also a problem as your wife should technically be the petitioner, and the documentation should read in affidavit "That the petitioner cannot be expected to live with the respondent" this is your main problem.

If she then dissapears out of the country, (again unlikely) it does kind of create a delay in your divorce, you could seek the advice of the CAB to find out what they think in relation to her flitting in the night out of the country.

In any event, don't be dictated to, stand firm, and call her bluff, say you don't care if she does not release the marriage certificate and that you will obtain one of your own, which you are entitled too.

Then hit her hard with a petition for divorce, there are many do it yourself help kits online, that should take the wind out of her sails, and then wait, see what she does, she has 14 days to respond, she may seek legal advice, if she does fine, don't as I said previously use a solicitor, also your marriage has not lasted long, so its unlikely she will be petitioning for any maintenance, her immigration status will be an issue in any event.

Whatever you do, do not consent to co-signining her ILR, that will just about give hyer everything she wants, and in the meantime, get your petition in first, and most of all remember this "Most of the things you think will happen, never actually do, we always worry about the worst, but when it comes down to it, things seem to get sorte dout in time, I am sure, that when you threaten her with informing UK Border and Immigration, that you are no longer living together, she will come around to sign those divorce papers as quick as you can say "REMITTANCE", I should have thought the prospect of her living with a Filipino under your nose would just about drive you over the edge, I know it would me.

Best of Luck Des.