filesharing

[andypaul]

What with Google and youtube having to hand over ip info. Ie Weirdy computer type people can work out who watched what and if it was copyrighted material could bring charges.

Now France are looking at three strikes and out for filesharing.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07...t_filesharers/


It is worth Considering if you really need to download all those files or watch them programes/films as these laws/actions could be possibly be retrospective.

If people say it cost to much to sue each person well, not if you the downloader pay the costs of the procescution.

[walesrob]

My guess is that the YouTube case will be strung out for as long as possible, and for once I'm on Google's side here. Anyway, Viacom will be winners in this anyway, as they are getting their material onto You Tube with free promotions of their products.

As for 3 strikes and your out - waste of time. They can throw someone off the network, but they will be able to sign up again to another ISP no problems.

I think we need to stop blaming the ISP's here - its a bit like closing the M4 just in case a potential murderer uses it - strange way of looking at it I know, but I'm sure you'll agree having an internet connection is as important as being able to drive anywhere, and once you start down the slippery slope of forcing ISP's to bring in draconian measures in favour of copyright holders, its all gets a bit nasty. The beauty/downside* (delete as approriate) of the internet is that its unrestricted.

[andypaul]

My guess is that the YouTube case will be strung out for as long as possible, and for once I'm on Google's side here. Anyway, Viacom will be winners in this anyway, as they are getting their material onto You Tube with free promotions of their products.

As for 3 strikes and your out - waste of time. They can throw someone off the network, but they will be able to sign up again to another ISP no problems.

I think we need to stop blaming the ISP's here - its a bit like closing the M4 just in case a potential murderer uses it - strange way of looking at it I know, but I'm sure you'll agree having an internet connection is as important as being able to drive anywhere, and once you start down the slippery slope of forcing ISP's to bring in draconian measures in favour of copyright holders, its all gets a bit nasty. The beauty/downside* (delete as approriate) of the internet is that its unrestricted.

Not really up on the Viacom case

But if Viacom suceed in getting the IP addresses of all who downloaded anything on youtube. Then All the big media companies will ask do the same surely and then who knows i doubt they will come after the person who downloaded one file but it is something to be aware of.

I think a lot of people forget its breaking copyright law and they could get into serious bother if they are one of the examples picked out as happened when p2p networks were busted a few years back.
Do remeber it may not be you the person paying for the ISP account who maybe downloading/uploading the info others members of the household, those who log onto your network (our company used to allow people to log in both via wirless and lan people in the background would have a p2p or torrent running

All forms of wirless encryption in most housholds can be broken easily, mac addresses can be cloned and turning your ssid well is just a waste of time.

you could have a trojan or some form of malware running on part of your network which could be used to dounload/upload via your IP address.

Isps to me are just like the Leccy and water boards but the Leccy board will notify the Police if usage go though the roof as normally its a sign of a Skunk farm or some other ilict operation occuring.
So if people have excessive bandwith being used i can see them informing the relevant authorities and letting them getting on with it.

The 3 strikes and your out could work.

You need to prove who you are to sign on to a contract and get connected moving house then creating a new Identiy is a little extreme for most of us.

Im sure your aware rob of credit lists, the national dismissal register and other registers kept by companies which we have little say in but companies for the most part abide by.

So if little john kept downloading files and got you struck off you may find yourself with out a internet connection or one restricted possibly?

[walesrob]

So if little john kept downloading files and got you struck off you may find yourself with out a internet connection or one restricted possibly?

I've not heard of those lists - credit list? You mean credit reference record? BT didn't credit check me when I applied for broadband, nor did Enta.net when I was with them a few years ago. As for how ISPs handle defaulters or service abusers, this is very much up to individual ISP. I'm with BT, and their policy is, if you go over your limit, you will be charged at 60p per GB. If theres excessive use, they will encourage you to move to the Unlimited Package. As for P2P, I don't use that nonsense, and I've blocked all P2P ports on my Home Hub.

Credit to BT, the very same Home Hub are sent out with excellent security defaults - mine had 128bit WEP, SSID off and you are forced to changed the admin password before it allows internet access for the initial set up. I've seen so many unsecured wireless networks, and the likes of Netgear, Belkin and Linksys should make an effort to send out their wireless products with better security defaults.

[andypaul]

I've not heard of those lists - credit list? You mean credit reference record? BT didn't credit check me when I applied for broadband, nor did Enta.net when I was with them a few years ago. As for how ISPs handle defaulters or service abusers, this is very much up to individual ISP. I'm with BT, and their policy is, if you go over your limit, you will be charged at 60p per GB. If theres excessive use, they will encourage you to move to the Unlimited Package. As for P2P, I don't use that nonsense, and I've blocked all P2P ports on my Home Hub.

Credit to BT, the very same Home Hub are sent out with excellent security defaults - mine had 128bit WEP, SSID off and you are forced to changed the admin password before it allows internet access for the initial set up. I've seen so many unsecured wireless networks, and the likes of Netgear, Belkin and Linksys should make an effort to send out their wireless products with better security defaults.

Well if you dont p2p or torrent or stream copyrighted material then you shouldn't have to worry.

When i mentioned Credit lists i was just using an example of how companies share info about you which can make a difference to what service they provide you with if any.

There are also other registers.

Google national staff dismissal register and see how easy it is for companies and indivuals within side them to affect you.

heres an example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7389547.stm

Even some HR people i have spoken to about think this is a bad idea but
seems to be gaining support. ISps could either volunteer or be coersed into providing a similar scheme...

Home hub

I recieved one and gave it away.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10...home_hub_vuln/

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/200..._hub_password/


Far better as you say out of the box but hardly secure and the fact there are so many is another concern to me.

But it is up to the user to set up security i feel but WEP is like emperors new clothes even WPA is a little risky if you had computers nerds nearby.

[joebloggs]

well this really would open up a can of worms..

first proving who committed the 'crime' of watching a clip on youtube, who will they prosecute? the person who owns the pc, who owns the house, who pays the isp account, the person who watches the clip ? what about minors,

also can they claim its copyright theft if its only a clip of a few minutes, when its been broadcasted on tv already, whats the point of sky boxes, dvd recorders if not for recording tv programs ?, , vhs recorders, dvd recorders, cassette recorders,mp3 players mostly used for recording and playing back copyrighted material..

the courts would come to a stand still, it would take years to take everyone to court, and if i was on a jury, i would find them not guilty, as its today's media, just as cassette and vhs was in the past..

not workable.. anyway there not just torrents, what about rapidshare and other file storage sites, most files are password protected making in near impossible for them to know the contents.. also download at max speed

[andypaul]

Something will happen as filesharing is out of control and some of the only money making comapnies in the UK are the worse hit.

A bloke who works at a media publishing company was telling me Thursday they have real big problems in several industries he has heard of.

From the record, film and software companies to the disribution comapnies, manufactuers, print firms, graphic design. Even magazine and other advertising comapanies are up the swany at the moment. Plus all the support agencies

Dont forget as well as all the pop/movie stars paid to much and fat cat record company execs are loads of working class men and women like you and me Joe.

File sharing I remeber years back was a bit of a joke and a sort your act out to the big comapnies but what if everyday people put you out of your security guard, office cleaner or receptionist job because they broke the law and stole the product which paid your wages?

[joebloggs]

was it play.com that was sued for selling imported music cds ? because the greedy record companies wanted the brits to pay more for it than anywhere else ??

if i down load and watch the latest csi from a torrent site, the show will be shown on ch4 weeks or months later, what difference does it make, yes i could wait for it to be shown on ch4 and record it on dvd recorder, what's the record button for then ?
why not sue sky and the dvd recorder manufacturer's ?. or worse with the sky box where you can store it, what's the difference if i download it from a torrent site ? who's the victim, i suppose ch4 because no one would be watching the ads btw the breaks, but who watches and buys from ads anyway ??

as for mp3's radio head, not a fan, they put their l8st album as a download on the net, and you could pay what you wanted, they suppose to have made more money from that, than all their other albums..

video games - Nintendo in the last year they had their best sales figures ever..

films. many are cams,. who the hell watches cams. they should pay people for watching them

rip off Britian , rip them off back..

[andypaul]

was it play.com that was sued for selling imported music cds ? because the greedy record companies wanted the brits to pay more for it than anywhere else ??

if i down load and watch the latest csi from a torrent site, the show will be shown on ch4 weeks or months later, what difference does it make, yes i could wait for it to be shown on ch4 and record it on dvd recorder, what's the record button for then ?
why not sue sky and the dvd recorder manufacturer's ?. or worse with the sky box where you can store it, what's the difference if i download it from a torrent site ? who's the victim, i suppose ch4 because no one would be watching the ads btw the breaks, but who watches and buys from ads anyway ??

as for mp3's radio head, not a fan, they put their l8st album as a download on the net, and you could pay what you wanted, they suppose to have made more money from that, than all their other albums..

video games - Nintendo in the last year they had their best sales figures ever..

films. many are cams,. who the hell watches cams. they should pay people for watching them

rip off Britian , rip them off back..

i agree they were ripping off peeps.

Nintendo only make money as most people dont yet know how to copy the games its very easy if you are so inclined im led to belive both the ds and wiii

But filesharing is out of control and affecting the nations internet infrastructure and basically breaking the law. Intresting since filesharing has developed and become the norm people seem to wonder why the young take no notice of the law as all the oldies are busy nicking all they can off the net

As joe why dont you just take the cds out of the shop if you want to protest

Only having a bubble not that concerned personally but if as many people ripped off their taxes or avoid paying public transport those markets would collaspe.

Looks like it will soon happen with the oyster will you northners be prepared to pay more tax when LU need more money due to lost revenue when all us londoners are using cracked oysters

[joebloggs]

about the companies you mentioned struggling - is it because of recession or because of file sharing, pr8t dvds fund world terrorism,crime and drug cartels

easy to blame file sharing for everything, Nintendo are doing good because of the add ons they did for the wii. xbox and ps3 are more powerful, and i think dearer than wii or was, and it was in the shops, so it sold.

have you ever photocopied anything you didn't have the copywriter holders permission ? have you ever taped anything off the radio or tv ?


piracy also creates jobs, for the isp's dvd manufacturers etc..

drop the prices and people will buy ... sell cheap, you'll sell more, and make more..

if films that were on at the pics for a few weeks, then a couple of months later they were released on dvd for say £5, how many more would they sell ?

there will always be piracy, but if they made products that were affordable, then many more would buy them,,

[andypaul]

about the companies you mentioned struggling - is it because of recession or because of file sharing, pr8t dvds fund world terrorism,crime and drug cartels

easy to blame file sharing for everything, Nintendo are doing good because of the add ons they did for the wii. xbox and ps3 are more powerful, and i think dearer than wii or was, and it was in the shops, so it sold.

have you ever photocopied anything you didn't have the copywriter holders permission ? have you ever taped anything off the radio or tv ?


piracy also creates jobs, for the isp's dvd manufacturers etc..

drop the prices and people will buy ... sell cheap, you'll sell more, and make more..

if films that were on at the pics for a few weeks, then a couple of months later they were released on dvd for say £5, how many more would they sell ?

there will always be piracy, but if they made products that were affordable, then many more would buy them,,

Joe i always check what im allowed to copy, and you are allowed to tape of radio and tv for your own use

The companies i was told about are definetly suffering from the fact people rarely now pay for the products, he wasn't trying to convince me or spin me. just telling me the facts as he was talking mainly about a lot of the indie companies which are either almost dead or long gone. About mates we both had who are now out of the industry.

I know people will always copy this or that. But the problem is now no one wants to pay at all. The general attitude is why pay for it i will just take it.
How can you argue about kids stealing your ipod if all the music/videos is stolen on it?
Problem is that attiutude has moved into other areas on a scale i have never known in my short life.

I just feels it was something which did what you said which has now turned into a monster and the implications go further than companies losing products.

Just joking below

So joe would you say Knife and gun crime is good as it reduces the population very green, means less people chasing jobs. More guns and knifes sold which is good for industry and the resellers. Also good for the medical supply industy and undertakers. Also means we have more police and medics whose wages will trickle in the ecomony.

In fact more murders could be a way of boosting the ecomony in these tough times

Same with burlgary locksmiths,security, glass repair, alarm companies the list goes on

I may write to gordon

[KeithD]

The artists get about 50p per full CD, if they have 5 in the band that is 10p each .....the record company get about 4-6X more than the artist(s)

Could you imagine say Lampard's agent taking £150,000 a week, and just giving old Frank £30,000 wages out of it? Cos that's the way the music industry works

[joebloggs]

true scouser keith,

when i use to program computer games in the early 80's, for a £1.99 game, like i said you could try and sell them for £14.99 or £9.99 and sell a few 1000's or sell them for £1.99 and sell 100,000s !!!

i got 9p or 10p a copy, the graphic artist got 9p who designed the cover, it cost 30p to make, the distributor got like 40p, the shop made about 50p, and the rest about 60p went to the publisher .. yes ripped off

so i got no tears for the people you mention andy..

[andypaul]

true scouser keith,

when i use to program computer games in the early 80's, for a £1.99 game, like i said you could try and sell them for £14.99 or £9.99 and sell a few 1000's or sell them for £1.99 and sell 100,000s !!!

i got 9p or 10p a copy, the graphic artist got 9p who designed the cover, it cost 30p to make, the distributor got like 40p, the shop made about 50p, and the rest about 60p went to the publisher .. yes ripped off

so i got no tears for the people you mention andy..

Cool but you decided to work with them you could have published yourself like many did back then from what i remeber.

[joebloggs]

andy, the last 2 companies i worked for in the last 2yrs went bust, not because of piracy, but because the market changed, and they didn't change with the times..

markets come and go, i know of people who use to sell MS licenses, they made a good living doing it, it was a big market, and nearly overnight it ended, when MS put a stop to it,, can you not sell something you've bought to someone else ? even if it is s/w with a license ?

are you allowed to copy a film off the tv and keep it in your collection ?? what's the difference then btw that and one from a torrent site ? esp if its been broadcasted on tv in the uk ??

oh i was really young in those days , but you can see people made alot more than i did, and i did all the work, assembly language programming, written on scraps of paper , noway i could compete with the big boys ..

i'm not for or against it, but i do download csi for the misses,becuase she cannot wait , but until they drop the prices, then for me, they deserve what they get..

[andypaul]

andy, the last 2 companies i worked for in the last 2yrs went bust, not because of piracy, but because the market changed, and they didn't change with the times..

markets come and go, i know of people who use to sell MS licenses, they made a good living doing it, it was a big market, and nearly overnight it ended, when MS put a stop to it,, can you not sell something you've bought to someone else ? even if it is s/w with a license ?

are you allowed to copy a film off the tv and keep it in your collection ?? what's the difference then btw that and one from a torrent site ? esp if its been broadcasted on tv in the uk ??

oh i was really young in those days , but you can see people made alot more than i did, and i did all the work, assembly language programming, written on scraps of paper

i'm not for or against it, but i do download csi for the misses,becuase she cannot wait , but until they drop the prices, then for me, they deserve what they get..

Joe i have no problems with people filesharing we all swaped tapes as kids etc.

But its the change in attitude which is scary.

Forget the music software business.

A young person now belives they can have or take what they like it seems in some cases or at least the lines are very unclear.

So if you had a ipod stolen off you with all bootleged software would you complain?

Many youngsters find it had to see the difference.

You downloading a missed copy of csi makati is not the big problem.

[joebloggs]

i think many people see piracy as a victimless crime or corporate crime,virtual crime ,
i wouldn't go and steal an ipod, or a physical item, but downloading a tv show or cartoons for the kids to watch , yes it is still theft, but as it is not a physical item, then if i wasn't going to buy it anyway, then the publisher has not lost out, i mean how many programs have you tried and thought it was a load of , especially games , charge you £40 and 10 mins it's never played again..

any why can you not get the l8st dvds and music from libraries, why only books ? and why are the publishes not broke because of libraries ?


music, film and others have to move with the times..

[andypaul]

The artists get about 50p per full CD, if they have 5 in the band that is 10p each .....the record company get about 4-6X more than the artist(s)

Could you imagine say Lampard's agent taking £150,000 a week, and just giving old Frank £30,000 wages out of it? Cos that's the way the music industry works

Thats why many produce, write and publish themselves on their own labels.
If a band got to franks level i doubt thats the ratio they would get if they run their own label

[KeithD]

Some of these groups are going the right way, give it away for free, and accept donations on the web site for it. I'd have no problem giving a fiver direct to the band for an album, as I'd know they got most of it.

When I download music it is to see if I like a new band, if I do, I'll then buy the live DVD.

Wasn't it Girls Aloud that made no money themselves until the 3rd album? And what the record companies forget to tell these new 'stars' is that the champagne & limo's all come out of the artists cut, not the music industries

[andypaul]

Some of these groups are going the right way, give it away for free, and accept donations on the web site for it. I'd have no problem giving a fiver direct to the band for an album, as I'd know they got most of it.

When I download music it is to see if I like a new band, if I do, I'll then buy the live DVD.

Wasn't it Girls Aloud that made no money themselves until the 3rd album? And what the record companies forget to tell these new 'stars' is that the champagne & limo's all come out of the artists cut, not the music industries

I know of several bands and artists whose worst mistake was signing a record contract as they ended up skint and worse off as they didn't understand the advance they get is bascially a loan. many also didn't read the contract they signed let alone understand it.

But they were all over 18, sound of mind and never had to sign the contract.

Its just like all the people who were gonna become huge propety landlords are now saying but no one said my intrest rates and fees might go up

[nigel]

Some of these groups are going the right way, give it away for free, and accept donations on the web site for it. I'd have no problem giving a fiver direct to the band for an album, as I'd know they got most of it.

When I download music it is to see if I like a new band, if I do, I'll then buy the live DVD.

Wasn't it Girls Aloud that made no money themselves until the 3rd album? And what the record companies forget to tell these new 'stars' is that the champagne & limo's all come out of the artists cut, not the music industries

I believe your right! I saw Girls Aloud at Sandown park Esher a couple of weeks ago, I thought they'd be cocky big heads but they're actually not at all like that.

But anyway, apparently the girl band TLC made little or no money, the late Lisa Left Eye Lopez was once very honest about it in an interview. She said when they finished their recording and touring, they were hit with a huge bill for the limo's/travel cost's etc I think they even had to pay for their own studio time! Which can be very expensive! It seems they all worked very hard to make their band successful, oblivious to the fact that they would end up with little or nothing! The interview was old so maybe they have made money now...

[KeithD]

The interview was old so maybe they have made money now...

Be a miracle if Lisa was making money now .....and boy was she unlucky, 13 in a minibus, and she was the only one to die the accident.

[andypaul]

I believe your right! I saw Girls Aloud at Sandown park Esher a couple of weeks ago, I thought they'd be cocky big heads but they're actually not at all like that.

But anyway, apparently the girl band TLC made little or no money, the late Lisa Left Eye Lopez was once very honest about it in an interview. She said when they finished their recording and touring, they were hit with a huge bill for the limo's/travel cost's etc I think they even had to pay for their own studio time! Which can be very expensive! It seems they all worked very hard to make their band successful, oblivious to the fact that they would end up with little or nothing! The interview was old so maybe they have made money now...

Thats why the most sucessful bands i notice normally eiter mange themselves or have a family member runnng them.

A lot of the bands i if they dont write the songs, perform covers, let others produce and remix will have huge fees.

But then if i did that at work ie subcontracted out part of the work and paid others to create my work then i would have to pay for it.

Many dance music acts and artists made a fortune as they released the songs published them wrote them and then when they broke the mainstream just licensed the songs to large record companies to distrubute and many made naff or just plain cheap videos as had sussed what was going on.

[joebloggs]

so who's ripping the artist off the most ??

the people who download it or the record company that gives them a few pence, oh the record companies need to make money to invest in new talent , like errrr robbie williams ... or invest in a new villa or sports car

so who's losing the most the artist who gets a few pence on every album or the record company that takes £s ?, yes and the artist gets again by the record company for the advances they were given. so where and how is this money invested in new talent ?? a load of

[andypaul]

so who's ripping the artist off the most ??

the people who download it or the record company that gives them a few pence, oh the record companies need to make money to invest in new talent , like errrr robbie williams ... or invest in a new villa or sports car

so who's losing the most the artist who gets a few pence on every album or the record company that takes £s ?, yes and the artist gets again by the record company for the advances they were given. so where and how is this money invested in new talent ?? a load of

But thats the deal the pop star movie star took

Just as you did with your job, many companies how ever much moeny you save them or earn them will never pay you that great a percentage in return.

Remeber if you invent or discover something while at a employer many companies in the small print will have the right to the invention/process.

I know i have saved/made my comapany far more than i get in retun but thats the deal i took. Far less risks/hassle than starting my own company.

Those pop stars could have gone it alone nothng stopping them plenty of others have done it.

As you wrote earlier Joe you have no sympathy for those that lose money or there jobs thats life file sharing/signing a contract which is poorly weighted agaisnt you.

Regards the advance Joe if i loaned you money to start a company and said first before you earn any money i want mine if you didn't like the terms you wouldn't agree to it you would go elsewhere surely?

[andypaul]

Filipinouk*co*uk is described as one at the top of the home page Joe

[KeithD]

Whereas if you lent a scouser money, you'd never see us again

[KeithD]

I like to record the hiss off the radio

[andypaul]

I like to record the hiss off the radio

They must have known most blank tape came prerecorded wth it

[joebloggs]

well then your lucky andy that your in the position to argue your contract, standard company contract, they will not change anything, take it or leave it..

one thing i didn't give in on, is the pay i wanted

well sometimes a pirate one is better than the original