filesharing

[andypaul]

What with Google and youtube having to hand over ip info. Ie Weirdy computer type people can work out who watched what and if it was copyrighted material could bring charges.

Now France are looking at three strikes and out for filesharing.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07...t_filesharers/


It is worth Considering if you really need to download all those files or watch them programes/films as these laws/actions could be possibly be retrospective.

If people say it cost to much to sue each person well, not if you the downloader pay the costs of the procescution.

[walesrob]

My guess is that the YouTube case will be strung out for as long as possible, and for once I'm on Google's side here. Anyway, Viacom will be winners in this anyway, as they are getting their material onto You Tube with free promotions of their products.

As for 3 strikes and your out - waste of time. They can throw someone off the network, but they will be able to sign up again to another ISP no problems.

I think we need to stop blaming the ISP's here - its a bit like closing the M4 just in case a potential murderer uses it - strange way of looking at it I know, but I'm sure you'll agree having an internet connection is as important as being able to drive anywhere, and once you start down the slippery slope of forcing ISP's to bring in draconian measures in favour of copyright holders, its all gets a bit nasty. The beauty/downside* (delete as approriate) of the internet is that its unrestricted.

[andypaul]

My guess is that the YouTube case will be strung out for as long as possible, and for once I'm on Google's side here. Anyway, Viacom will be winners in this anyway, as they are getting their material onto You Tube with free promotions of their products.

As for 3 strikes and your out - waste of time. They can throw someone off the network, but they will be able to sign up again to another ISP no problems.

I think we need to stop blaming the ISP's here - its a bit like closing the M4 just in case a potential murderer uses it - strange way of looking at it I know, but I'm sure you'll agree having an internet connection is as important as being able to drive anywhere, and once you start down the slippery slope of forcing ISP's to bring in draconian measures in favour of copyright holders, its all gets a bit nasty. The beauty/downside* (delete as approriate) of the internet is that its unrestricted.

Not really up on the Viacom case

But if Viacom suceed in getting the IP addresses of all who downloaded anything on youtube. Then All the big media companies will ask do the same surely and then who knows i doubt they will come after the person who downloaded one file but it is something to be aware of.

I think a lot of people forget its breaking copyright law and they could get into serious bother if they are one of the examples picked out as happened when p2p networks were busted a few years back.
Do remeber it may not be you the person paying for the ISP account who maybe downloading/uploading the info others members of the household, those who log onto your network (our company used to allow people to log in both via wirless and lan people in the background would have a p2p or torrent running

All forms of wirless encryption in most housholds can be broken easily, mac addresses can be cloned and turning your ssid well is just a waste of time.

you could have a trojan or some form of malware running on part of your network which could be used to dounload/upload via your IP address.

Isps to me are just like the Leccy and water boards but the Leccy board will notify the Police if usage go though the roof as normally its a sign of a Skunk farm or some other ilict operation occuring.
So if people have excessive bandwith being used i can see them informing the relevant authorities and letting them getting on with it.

The 3 strikes and your out could work.

You need to prove who you are to sign on to a contract and get connected moving house then creating a new Identiy is a little extreme for most of us.

Im sure your aware rob of credit lists, the national dismissal register and other registers kept by companies which we have little say in but companies for the most part abide by.

So if little john kept downloading files and got you struck off you may find yourself with out a internet connection or one restricted possibly?

[walesrob]

So if little john kept downloading files and got you struck off you may find yourself with out a internet connection or one restricted possibly?

I've not heard of those lists - credit list? You mean credit reference record? BT didn't credit check me when I applied for broadband, nor did Enta.net when I was with them a few years ago. As for how ISPs handle defaulters or service abusers, this is very much up to individual ISP. I'm with BT, and their policy is, if you go over your limit, you will be charged at 60p per GB. If theres excessive use, they will encourage you to move to the Unlimited Package. As for P2P, I don't use that nonsense, and I've blocked all P2P ports on my Home Hub.

Credit to BT, the very same Home Hub are sent out with excellent security defaults - mine had 128bit WEP, SSID off and you are forced to changed the admin password before it allows internet access for the initial set up. I've seen so many unsecured wireless networks, and the likes of Netgear, Belkin and Linksys should make an effort to send out their wireless products with better security defaults.

[andypaul]

I've not heard of those lists - credit list? You mean credit reference record? BT didn't credit check me when I applied for broadband, nor did Enta.net when I was with them a few years ago. As for how ISPs handle defaulters or service abusers, this is very much up to individual ISP. I'm with BT, and their policy is, if you go over your limit, you will be charged at 60p per GB. If theres excessive use, they will encourage you to move to the Unlimited Package. As for P2P, I don't use that nonsense, and I've blocked all P2P ports on my Home Hub.

Credit to BT, the very same Home Hub are sent out with excellent security defaults - mine had 128bit WEP, SSID off and you are forced to changed the admin password before it allows internet access for the initial set up. I've seen so many unsecured wireless networks, and the likes of Netgear, Belkin and Linksys should make an effort to send out their wireless products with better security defaults.

Well if you dont p2p or torrent or stream copyrighted material then you shouldn't have to worry.

When i mentioned Credit lists i was just using an example of how companies share info about you which can make a difference to what service they provide you with if any.

There are also other registers.

Google national staff dismissal register and see how easy it is for companies and indivuals within side them to affect you.

heres an example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7389547.stm

Even some HR people i have spoken to about think this is a bad idea but
seems to be gaining support. ISps could either volunteer or be coersed into providing a similar scheme...

Home hub

I recieved one and gave it away.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10...home_hub_vuln/

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/200..._hub_password/


Far better as you say out of the box but hardly secure and the fact there are so many is another concern to me.

But it is up to the user to set up security i feel but WEP is like emperors new clothes even WPA is a little risky if you had computers nerds nearby.

[joebloggs]

well this really would open up a can of worms..

first proving who committed the 'crime' of watching a clip on youtube, who will they prosecute? the person who owns the pc, who owns the house, who pays the isp account, the person who watches the clip ? what about minors,

also can they claim its copyright theft if its only a clip of a few minutes, when its been broadcasted on tv already, whats the point of sky boxes, dvd recorders if not for recording tv programs ?, , vhs recorders, dvd recorders, cassette recorders,mp3 players mostly used for recording and playing back copyrighted material..

the courts would come to a stand still, it would take years to take everyone to court, and if i was on a jury, i would find them not guilty, as its today's media, just as cassette and vhs was in the past..

not workable.. anyway there not just torrents, what about rapidshare and other file storage sites, most files are password protected making in near impossible for them to know the contents.. also download at max speed

[andypaul]

well this really would open up a can of worms..

first proving who committed the 'crime' of watching a clip on youtube, who will they prosecute? the person who owns the pc, who owns the house, who pays the isp account, the person who watches the clip ? what about minors,

also can they claim its copyright theft if its only a clip of a few minutes, when its been broadcasted on tv already, whats the point of sky boxes, dvd recorders if not for recording tv programs ?, , vhs recorders, dvd recorders, cassette recorders,mp3 players mostly used for recording and playing back copyrighted material..

the courts would come to a stand still, it would take years to take everyone to court, and if i was on a jury, i would find them not guilty, as its today's media, just as cassette and vhs was in the past..

not workable.. anyway there not just torrents, what about rapidshare and other file storage sites, most files are password protected making in near impossible for them to know the contents.. also download at max speed

From what we alreay have seen they never bother with everyone they seem to pick the heavy users, the ISPs and some random people who from what they say and what i have read dont seem to have downloaded any more than others.

Dont forget Joe its actually agasint the rules you accept when watching a premier league game to take pictures or video at a game.
Again no one takes much notice if a kid or someone take a picture or two. but if you shot the whole match and uploaded to youtube and the like they will take them down due to complaints from the football clubs and premier league etc (has happened to mates)

I think the video cassete recordings of tv were in theory you could record to watch at a convient time within a couple of weeks (something along those lines)

I think the downloaders who have to be careful are those who then pass it on or upload as thats the ones i have seen get in grief.

People i know who used to fileshare a lot use to ensure they took all files off so as not to attract to much attention so were in theroy just downloading.

To take an example from drug enformcement and the police they are after the pushers not the users

But has some drug users found they could without realising end up classified as drug dealers and feel the full force of the law.

Im not siding with either side just warning people be careful and aware whats possibly brewing before posting clips and sharing files.

[joebloggs]

if the cops haven't got time for credit card fraud, then they will not have time for file sharers, near me the pr8ts use to take the , selling cds outside the computer show, at least 20 people selling them, and my brothers g/f, her sister is married to a plod, he use to goto the show and buy the dodgy cd's and sell them to plods in the cop station

i want to know who says you can not record a match, where in the law does it say you cannot, is it not a public place? ,you've paid your fee, just like the pictures and other places like that, where they will not allow you to take food or drink in, who gives them this right ? what law gives them this power ? you have to pay their rip off prices, and there is no competition inside, they have a Monopoly

we took our daughter when she was 6 to the gmex in manchester, they told her she couldn't take her drink inside, , and they even search people bags, where your civil rights

its corporate theft, Profiteering and yet they get away with it..

[andypaul]

if the cops haven't got time for credit card fraud, then they will not have time for file sharers, near me the pr8ts use to take the , selling cds outside the computer show, at least 20 people selling them, and my brothers g/f, her sister is married to a plod, he use to goto the show and buy the dodgy cd's and sell them to plods in the cop station

i want to know who says you can not record a match, where in the law does it say you cannot, is it not a public place? ,you've paid your fee, just like the pictures and other places like that, where they will not allow you to take food or drink in, who gives them this right ? what law gives them this power ? you have to pay their rip off prices, and there is no competition inside, they have a Monopoly

we took our daughter when she was 6 to the gmex in manchester, they told her she couldn't take her drink inside, , and they even search people bags, where your civil rights

its corporate theft, Profiteering and yet they get away with it..

The police and CPS dont get involved with these procescutions the companies normally take them to court themselves.

I don't know all the rules and laws but trust me read a ticket or season ticket and it will tell you that they will ask you to leave and ban you if caught filming a match.
I guess its like a Pub or cinema its private propety so can invite who they like and ask them to bring or not bring what they like within reason.
Many Pubs i know of and nearly all cinemas will kick you out if taking photos unless of your own party you went with.

[joebloggs]

true, but i wonder if someone took one of these picture chains or arenas to court what would be the outcome ?

British law, is suppose to be built on the principals of what is fair and reasonable, i don't see how a judge or jury could or would think that banning people from taking a picture, bringing in their own food or drink is fair or reasonable , understandable if its a restaurant or food shop.

but these pictures and arenas sell their own drinks and foods inside at very high prices and you cannot leave the place to go and eat or drink outside, they will not let you back in. and so for a couple of hours you have no choice if you want to eat or drink

to me its not fair and like i said no competition, i really don't know how they can get away with it..

rant over, something for the competition committee to look into

[joebloggs]

come on carphone warehouse



http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/214896/i...ring-pact.html

I'm still waiting for a letter, running low on toilet paper

[andypaul]

Something will happen as filesharing is out of control and some of the only money making comapnies in the UK are the worse hit.

A bloke who works at a media publishing company was telling me Thursday they have real big problems in several industries he has heard of.

From the record, film and software companies to the disribution comapnies, manufactuers, print firms, graphic design. Even magazine and other advertising comapanies are up the swany at the moment. Plus all the support agencies

Dont forget as well as all the pop/movie stars paid to much and fat cat record company execs are loads of working class men and women like you and me Joe.

File sharing I remeber years back was a bit of a joke and a sort your act out to the big comapnies but what if everyday people put you out of your security guard, office cleaner or receptionist job because they broke the law and stole the product which paid your wages?

[joebloggs]

was it play.com that was sued for selling imported music cds ? because the greedy record companies wanted the brits to pay more for it than anywhere else ??

if i down load and watch the latest csi from a torrent site, the show will be shown on ch4 weeks or months later, what difference does it make, yes i could wait for it to be shown on ch4 and record it on dvd recorder, what's the record button for then ?
why not sue sky and the dvd recorder manufacturer's ?. or worse with the sky box where you can store it, what's the difference if i download it from a torrent site ? who's the victim, i suppose ch4 because no one would be watching the ads btw the breaks, but who watches and buys from ads anyway ??

as for mp3's radio head, not a fan, they put their l8st album as a download on the net, and you could pay what you wanted, they suppose to have made more money from that, than all their other albums..

video games - Nintendo in the last year they had their best sales figures ever..

films. many are cams,. who the hell watches cams. they should pay people for watching them

rip off Britian , rip them off back..

[andypaul]

was it play.com that was sued for selling imported music cds ? because the greedy record companies wanted the brits to pay more for it than anywhere else ??

if i down load and watch the latest csi from a torrent site, the show will be shown on ch4 weeks or months later, what difference does it make, yes i could wait for it to be shown on ch4 and record it on dvd recorder, what's the record button for then ?
why not sue sky and the dvd recorder manufacturer's ?. or worse with the sky box where you can store it, what's the difference if i download it from a torrent site ? who's the victim, i suppose ch4 because no one would be watching the ads btw the breaks, but who watches and buys from ads anyway ??

as for mp3's radio head, not a fan, they put their l8st album as a download on the net, and you could pay what you wanted, they suppose to have made more money from that, than all their other albums..

video games - Nintendo in the last year they had their best sales figures ever..

films. many are cams,. who the hell watches cams. they should pay people for watching them

rip off Britian , rip them off back..

i agree they were ripping off peeps.

Nintendo only make money as most people dont yet know how to copy the games its very easy if you are so inclined im led to belive both the ds and wiii

But filesharing is out of control and affecting the nations internet infrastructure and basically breaking the law. Intresting since filesharing has developed and become the norm people seem to wonder why the young take no notice of the law as all the oldies are busy nicking all they can off the net

As joe why dont you just take the cds out of the shop if you want to protest

Only having a bubble not that concerned personally but if as many people ripped off their taxes or avoid paying public transport those markets would collaspe.

Looks like it will soon happen with the oyster will you northners be prepared to pay more tax when LU need more money due to lost revenue when all us londoners are using cracked oysters

[joebloggs]

about the companies you mentioned struggling - is it because of recession or because of file sharing, pr8t dvds fund world terrorism,crime and drug cartels

easy to blame file sharing for everything, Nintendo are doing good because of the add ons they did for the wii. xbox and ps3 are more powerful, and i think dearer than wii or was, and it was in the shops, so it sold.

have you ever photocopied anything you didn't have the copywriter holders permission ? have you ever taped anything off the radio or tv ?


piracy also creates jobs, for the isp's dvd manufacturers etc..

drop the prices and people will buy ... sell cheap, you'll sell more, and make more..

if films that were on at the pics for a few weeks, then a couple of months later they were released on dvd for say £5, how many more would they sell ?

there will always be piracy, but if they made products that were affordable, then many more would buy them,,

[KeithD]

The artists get about 50p per full CD, if they have 5 in the band that is 10p each .....the record company get about 4-6X more than the artist(s)

Could you imagine say Lampard's agent taking £150,000 a week, and just giving old Frank £30,000 wages out of it? Cos that's the way the music industry works

[andypaul]

about the companies you mentioned struggling - is it because of recession or because of file sharing, pr8t dvds fund world terrorism,crime and drug cartels

easy to blame file sharing for everything, Nintendo are doing good because of the add ons they did for the wii. xbox and ps3 are more powerful, and i think dearer than wii or was, and it was in the shops, so it sold.

have you ever photocopied anything you didn't have the copywriter holders permission ? have you ever taped anything off the radio or tv ?


piracy also creates jobs, for the isp's dvd manufacturers etc..

drop the prices and people will buy ... sell cheap, you'll sell more, and make more..

if films that were on at the pics for a few weeks, then a couple of months later they were released on dvd for say £5, how many more would they sell ?

there will always be piracy, but if they made products that were affordable, then many more would buy them,,

Joe i always check what im allowed to copy, and you are allowed to tape of radio and tv for your own use

The companies i was told about are definetly suffering from the fact people rarely now pay for the products, he wasn't trying to convince me or spin me. just telling me the facts as he was talking mainly about a lot of the indie companies which are either almost dead or long gone. About mates we both had who are now out of the industry.

I know people will always copy this or that. But the problem is now no one wants to pay at all. The general attitude is why pay for it i will just take it.
How can you argue about kids stealing your ipod if all the music/videos is stolen on it?
Problem is that attiutude has moved into other areas on a scale i have never known in my short life.

I just feels it was something which did what you said which has now turned into a monster and the implications go further than companies losing products.

Just joking below

So joe would you say Knife and gun crime is good as it reduces the population very green, means less people chasing jobs. More guns and knifes sold which is good for industry and the resellers. Also good for the medical supply industy and undertakers. Also means we have more police and medics whose wages will trickle in the ecomony.

In fact more murders could be a way of boosting the ecomony in these tough times

Same with burlgary locksmiths,security, glass repair, alarm companies the list goes on

I may write to gordon

[joebloggs]

true scouser keith,

when i use to program computer games in the early 80's, for a £1.99 game, like i said you could try and sell them for £14.99 or £9.99 and sell a few 1000's or sell them for £1.99 and sell 100,000s !!!

i got 9p or 10p a copy, the graphic artist got 9p who designed the cover, it cost 30p to make, the distributor got like 40p, the shop made about 50p, and the rest about 60p went to the publisher .. yes ripped off

so i got no tears for the people you mention andy..

[andypaul]

The artists get about 50p per full CD, if they have 5 in the band that is 10p each .....the record company get about 4-6X more than the artist(s)

Could you imagine say Lampard's agent taking £150,000 a week, and just giving old Frank £30,000 wages out of it? Cos that's the way the music industry works

Thats why many produce, write and publish themselves on their own labels.
If a band got to franks level i doubt thats the ratio they would get if they run their own label

[andypaul]

true scouser keith,

when i use to program computer games in the early 80's, for a £1.99 game, like i said you could try and sell them for £14.99 or £9.99 and sell a few 1000's or sell them for £1.99 and sell 100,000s !!!

i got 9p or 10p a copy, the graphic artist got 9p who designed the cover, it cost 30p to make, the distributor got like 40p, the shop made about 50p, and the rest about 60p went to the publisher .. yes ripped off

so i got no tears for the people you mention andy..

Cool but you decided to work with them you could have published yourself like many did back then from what i remeber.

[joebloggs]

andy, the last 2 companies i worked for in the last 2yrs went bust, not because of piracy, but because the market changed, and they didn't change with the times..

markets come and go, i know of people who use to sell MS licenses, they made a good living doing it, it was a big market, and nearly overnight it ended, when MS put a stop to it,, can you not sell something you've bought to someone else ? even if it is s/w with a license ?

are you allowed to copy a film off the tv and keep it in your collection ?? what's the difference then btw that and one from a torrent site ? esp if its been broadcasted on tv in the uk ??

oh i was really young in those days , but you can see people made alot more than i did, and i did all the work, assembly language programming, written on scraps of paper , noway i could compete with the big boys ..

i'm not for or against it, but i do download csi for the misses,becuase she cannot wait , but until they drop the prices, then for me, they deserve what they get..

[andypaul]

andy, the last 2 companies i worked for in the last 2yrs went bust, not because of piracy, but because the market changed, and they didn't change with the times..

markets come and go, i know of people who use to sell MS licenses, they made a good living doing it, it was a big market, and nearly overnight it ended, when MS put a stop to it,, can you not sell something you've bought to someone else ? even if it is s/w with a license ?

are you allowed to copy a film off the tv and keep it in your collection ?? what's the difference then btw that and one from a torrent site ? esp if its been broadcasted on tv in the uk ??

oh i was really young in those days , but you can see people made alot more than i did, and i did all the work, assembly language programming, written on scraps of paper

i'm not for or against it, but i do download csi for the misses,becuase she cannot wait , but until they drop the prices, then for me, they deserve what they get..

Joe i have no problems with people filesharing we all swaped tapes as kids etc.

But its the change in attitude which is scary.

Forget the music software business.

A young person now belives they can have or take what they like it seems in some cases or at least the lines are very unclear.

So if you had a ipod stolen off you with all bootleged software would you complain?

Many youngsters find it had to see the difference.

You downloading a missed copy of csi makati is not the big problem.

[joebloggs]

i think many people see piracy as a victimless crime or corporate crime,virtual crime ,
i wouldn't go and steal an ipod, or a physical item, but downloading a tv show or cartoons for the kids to watch , yes it is still theft, but as it is not a physical item, then if i wasn't going to buy it anyway, then the publisher has not lost out, i mean how many programs have you tried and thought it was a load of , especially games , charge you £40 and 10 mins it's never played again..

any why can you not get the l8st dvds and music from libraries, why only books ? and why are the publishes not broke because of libraries ?


music, film and others have to move with the times..

[nigel]

The thing is, there's so, so, many people downloading illegal stuff, limewire and azerous themselves have a feature that shows there are millions of users!! - Do you really think they'll bother prosecuting millions of us? It seems unlikely to me, and someone told me that there is some kind of "cloaking" software that can sort of camoflage what your downloading..if that's true everyone will be using it in no time!

I agree that this downloading is wrong, but I'm pessimistic that they'll be able to stop people..

[nigel]

Radiohead once made one of their albums available to download, and fans were free to pay whatever they felt the album was worth! So if you felt the album was a pile of rubbish you pay nothing, if you loved it, you still pay nothing apparently some of the fans did pay money even though they didn't have to which is interesting...

[joebloggs]

Radiohead's seventh album, In Rainbows, was released in October 2007 as a digital download for which customers chose their own price. Although it was reported that 1.2 million digital downloads were sold by the day of the album's release,[48] the band's management did not release official sales figures, claiming that the Internet-only distribution was intended to boost sales of the physical album.[48][49] Yet according to Yorke, Radiohead's profits from the digital download of In Rainbows outstripped combined profits from digital downloads of all of the band's other studio albums.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiohead

[andypaul]

Radiohead once made one of their albums available to download, and fans were free to pay whatever they felt the album was worth! So if you felt the album was a pile of rubbish you pay nothing, if you loved it, you still pay nothing apparently some of the fans did pay money even though they didn't have to which is interesting...

Some paid well over the avg price

[andypaul]

i think many people see piracy as a victimless crime or corporate crime,virtual crime ,
i wouldn't go and steal an ipod, or a physical item, but downloading a tv show or cartoons for the kids to watch , yes it is still theft, but as it is not a physical item, then if i wasn't going to buy it anyway, then the publisher has not lost out, i mean how many programs have you tried and thought it was a load of , especially games , charge you £40 and 10 mins it's never played again..

any why can you not get the l8st dvds and music from libraries, why only books ? and why are the publishes not broke because of libraries ?


music, film and others have to move with the times..

Joe our london Libraries have videos and music even computers and lights

A lot of people are members of the postal dvd, music and games where you can rent for as long as you like a certain amount of dvds for a certain tariff.
Which i think is the way forward

Do people really watch films over and over I just cant do it as i know the ending already

[andypaul]

The thing is, there's so, so, many people downloading illegal stuff, limewire and azerous themselves have a feature that shows there are millions of users!! - Do you really think they'll bother prosecuting millions of us? It seems unlikely to me, and someone told me that there is some kind of "cloaking" software that can sort of camoflage what your downloading..if that's true everyone will be using it in no time!

I agree that this downloading is wrong, but I'm pessimistic that they'll be able to stop people..

Thats why the BPI want to just cut people off or at least downgrade them

I doubt it will happen unless the french push it though at european level.

People say human rights and the right to browse the web but its not the same as engery or water. They could allow you a walled internet i guess like Joes Proxy at work banning many ports and websites etc. The mobile phone companies have done it for years not that hard to implment.

[joebloggs]

i guess like Joes Proxy at work banning many ports and websites etc. The mobile phone companies have done it for years not that hard to implment.

but someone has turned on the content screening at work, of course they should, but who the hell decided this was a dating site ?? !! i can go on nearly every site i want, except here

from what i've seen others at work spend their time on sky sports website looking at what horses to back