G/F's Tourist Visa refused

[Englishman2010]

My g/f went to VFS today to be told that her Tourist Visa application had been refused on the grounds that the Embassy Immigration Officer didnt think that she would return home at the end of her stay. They said that I had demonstrated adequate funds to pay for her trip and provide for her during her stay, but she didn't provide sufficient economic detail for herself. To summarise, as she hasn't got a job or a bank account the refused her application.
It was worth a try anyway. I'm a bit pee'd off that a jumped up Embassy Official can make that call without knowing anything about me or my ethics. Like most Brit's I'm against people overstaying their welcome here and against the economic migrant refugees. However, my G/F would be neither, I would ensure she got on a flight back to Manila, and TBH she wouldn't even attempt to overstay.
Looks like I've got to head back out there for a couple of weeks of sun in August now - so it's not all bad news

[ras66uk]

[Do not circumvent the swear filters - Admin]

[RickyR]

I'm sorry to hear that, I'm sure there is a way to resolve the situation. There is a process to appeal.

The decisions are based on evidence set out in the guidance manuals which are available on the Home Office website. I can say that it is possible to obtain a tourist visa for a filipina girlfriend who isn't currently employed and without providing any evidence of their finances.

When we applied for hte first one, I submitted a full letter from me explaining our relationship, the situation, my support and our plans whilst in the uk, return tickets (proof should would return), a letter from my employer confirming my employment, copies of my passport and some salary statements. A lot more then they state on the website, but it did work.
They have a lot of problems with overstayers, and you have to prove to the ECO that your situation won't be that as per their procedures.

[RickyR]

Oh and for the return tickets, I booked a fully flexible/refundable ticket. Which after the visa was issued I cancelled and rebooked using airmiles.

[Englishman2010]

I provided all of that Ricky, along with 6 months current account statements, savings account statements, mortgage statements, last 3 years P60's. Without going into too much detail, I clearly demonstrated ample liquid resources to fund her stay.
There is an appeals process within 28 days, I need to look into it and speak to her to see if it's worthwhile.
It's not the end of the world, I have been nagging her to get a job for the last 6 months anyway. This might be the kick she needs to get off her ass and get a job. If she get's a job and starts to save a little, we might try again in 6 months.
In the meantime, I will just have to go back over there in August and December.

[RickyR]

Yeah, then I would definately get an appeal and have it reviewed by the ECM. I agree it sounds like the ECO has been a bit too critical. If necessary, you can PM me and i'll give you my details to show the embassy a comparable situation where the visa was issued.

[joebloggs]

I'm sorry to hear that, I'm sure there is a way to resolve the situation. There is a process to appeal.
.

:NoNo: very limited grounds of appeal as his g/f is not a family member

[KeithD]

90%+ Of this kind of visa for a 'fiancee' fail, not the official figure, but the one we have seen in the real world on here over the last decade.

The onus is on the girl to prove she has enough funds and reasoning to return to the Phil. If the woman does not have a job, a decent wad in the bank, etc, then the chance of proving this is very slim. It doesn't matter if the guy in the UK is a Billionaire.

[Englishman2010]

TBH, I wasn't expecting a positive answer but felt it was worth trying. I can't see the point appealing at the moment. Will probably leave it another 6 or 9 months. I have been nagging my g/f to get a job for the last 6 months, this might be the incentive she needs to get one now. There's only so much help you can give someone, if they aren't prepared to help themselves they can't expect a great deal.

[joebloggs]

i dont think her having a job is the major problem, thou having one would have helped but its a catch 22, if she didn't have a job they can say she has no money or reason to return to the phils, if she did have a job they would question would her employer give her upto 6 months leave, if not then she would no longer have a job.. but many on here got a visit visa without having a job, if your sponsoring her it shouldn't matter that much..

the reason for the refusal is the classic excuse, they dont believe your g/f will return - you need to show good reasons why she would return..

[Englishman2010]

I'm going back out there again in August, and will deceide between now and then whether to re-apply later in the year, but this time with a return ticket bought and more detailed info on why she would return to the Phil's.

[joebloggs]

if you do reapply, this should give you a basic idea, but the more evidence and info you supply the greater your chances of success :xxgrinning--00xx3:

http://www.londonelegance.com/transpondia/sil/sampleInvitationLetter.pdf

[Englishman2010]

Thanks for the link Joe, I've saved that and will incorporate some of that for the next attempt.
What does suprise me though is that I provided pretty much the same info, far more financial detail proving that I could comfortably support her without it making a dent in my savings and assets. Upon reading the reasons for refusal again, the Immigration officer makes reference to her own economic position. Hopefully if she gets a job and can demonstrate a reason why she would return it will make a difference.

[joebloggs]

your g/f not having a job shouldn't not matter that much if your fully sponsoring her trip, (thou its used many times for refusal, but like i said before many have got their visa without a job/property or money -so why wasn't your g/f ?)

do you send your g/f money ?
if you do, did you state your g/f doesn't need to work because you send her money every month?

i think the main reason for the refusal is that they don't believe she will go back - the classic excuse and the lack of her own finances is just a secondary excuse.

reasons to go back is difficult if she has no job or property, but a simple family tree showing most if not all her family are in the phils, a paragraph from you both stating you are aware of the seriousness of her overstaying and you wouldn't want to jeopardise any future visa applications for her or your relationship with her.

[Englishman2010]

Thanks Joe

[Queenbee]

joe bloggs is right...I myself have been granted my 2nd tourist visa...As of the moment i dnt have a job bec i wanted to concentrate on my UNI,i dnt have millions in ma bank account too.:icon_lol:but i got my 2nd tourist visa.My bf is the one who sponsored my stay so i think i dnt have to show them how much money i have.
If i have a job,it would be hard to get a leave especially if im new in the company.So maybe thats jst a secondary excuse why she got denied...All i did was follow the rules,gave all the documents needed,Loads of evidences of our relationship,pics of his house along with the house deeds...everything..Then at the day of submission-dress well,appear confident n smile.:D

[lyka]

we tried tourist visa but we failed so we decided to apply fiancee visa then im here now in glasgow with my husband to be.

[gWaPito]

I provided all of that Ricky, along with 6 months current account statements, savings account statements, mortgage statements, last 3 years P60's. Without going into too much detail, I clearly demonstrated ample liquid resources to fund her stay.
There is an appeals process within 28 days, I need to look into it and speak to her to see if it's worthwhile.
It's not the end of the world, I have been nagging her to get a job for the last 6 months anyway. This might be the kick she needs to get off her ass and get a job. If she get's a job and starts to save a little, we might try again in 6 months.
In the meantime, I will just have to go back over there in August and December.

Hi Englishman2010, so sorry to hear of your predicament.
Going by what you have just posted, about providing of proof of funds etc, sounds like you had picked the short straw on eco selection:Brick:

Go through the appeal process and God willing you we will both get the correct result.
Like someone said earlier, there is a problem with over stayers and folks just refusing to go back to there homes, that is all very well for them but, for new applicants, it's very damaging for them and there country.

I don't think I would blame your Lady because she has no job:NoNo:, she won't be able to save from that 'job' anyway, you work to eat, that's about it, not to have savings as well.

Many a Tourist visa issued without girl friends having employment.

Just take time looking through previous threads on this subject, I'm sure it will enlighten you both.

Good luck to you both;)

[Englishman2010]

Hi Englishman2010, so sorry to hear of your predicament.
Going by what you have just posted, about providing of proof of funds etc, sounds like you had picked the short straw on eco selection:Brick:

Go through the appeal process and God willing you we will both get the correct result.

I don't think I would blame your Lady because she has no job:NoNo:, she won't be able to save from that 'job' anyway, you work to eat, that's about it, not to have savings as well.

Many a Tourist visa issued without girl friends having employment.

Just take time looking through previous threads on this subject, I'm sure it will enlighten you both.

Good luck to you both;)

Thanks for your support. We have decided not to appeal this time and I have already booked flights to go back in Aug/Sept and January. We will probably re-apply in August or later in the year.
Next time we will get a fully cancellable airline ticket so at least we can show that she intends to return. we will also provide more info on her family and give more reasons why she wants to return.
All's not lost, at least it means that I get out there another couple of times in the next 6 months

[gWaPito]

Thanks for your support. We have decided not to appeal this time and I have already booked flights to go back in Aug/Sept and January. We will probably re-apply in August or later in the year.
Next time we will get a fully cancellable airline ticket so at least we can show that she intends to return. we will also provide more info on her family and give more reasons why she wants to return.
All's not lost, at least it means that I get out there another couple of times in the next 6 months

If that is the case, by the time want to apply for a visa again, you may decide to go for a fiance/spouse visa instead.
A big leap in commitment but, if you are both sure that you will marry in the future then why not.
You will also save a fortune on reapplying for visa's and the drag of seperations.

[darren-b]

Thanks for your support. We have decided not to appeal this time and I have already booked flights to go back in Aug/Sept and January. We will probably re-apply in August or later in the year.
Next time we will get a fully cancellable airline ticket so at least we can show that she intends to return. we will also provide more info on her family and give more reasons why she wants to return.
All's not lost, at least it means that I get out there another couple of times in the next 6 months

Unfortunately that doesn't prove anything as she could just cancel that one and book a single.

[Englishman2010]

I've just been looking through the Appeals process, and the good news is that the sponsor can attend a UK hearing on the person applying for a visa's behalf. The really good news is that the hearing is in my home town. I've read through the appeal form, and I'm more confident now that it is worth appealing against especially as I can attend.
I'm quite a secretive person and dont want to give too much away publicly about what I do, but I am more than happy to attend a hearing, show them my savings and assets, also show them that I have booked return tickets for myself to the Phil's in Aug/Sept and Dec/Jan. Therefore it seems unlikely that it is my girlfirends intention to overstay her visa or that I would allow it based on me going back there to see her in Dec. I might take a gamble and buy her a ticket for say Oct to Nov or Dec.
Will decide what to do in the next day or so as we only have 18 days left to lodge an appeal.

[joebloggs]

I've just been looking through the Appeals process, and the good news is that the sponsor can attend a UK hearing on the person applying for a visa's behalf. The really good news is that the hearing is in my home town. I've read through the appeal form, and I'm more confident now that it is worth appealing against especially as I can attend.
I'm quite a secretive person and dont want to give too much away publicly about what I do, but I am more than happy to attend a hearing, show them my savings and assets, also show them that I have booked return tickets for myself to the Phil's in Aug/Sept and Dec/Jan. Therefore it seems unlikely that it is my girlfirends intention to overstay her visa or that I would allow it based on me going back there to see her in Dec. I might take a gamble and buy her a ticket for say Oct to Nov or Dec.
Will decide what to do in the next day or so as we only have 18 days left to lodge an appeal.

I dont think you have Full Rights of Appeal, so I think you have little chance of been granted an appeal.:NoNo:

[joebloggs]

I've just been looking through the Appeals process, and the good news is that the sponsor can attend a UK hearing on the person applying for a visa's behalf. The really good news is that the hearing is in my home town. I've read through the appeal form, and I'm more confident now that it is worth appealing against especially as I can attend.
I'm quite a secretive person and dont want to give too much away publicly about what I do, but I am more than happy to attend a hearing, show them my savings and assets, also show them that I have booked return tickets for myself to the Phil's in Aug/Sept and Dec/Jan. Therefore it seems unlikely that it is my girlfirends intention to overstay her visa or that I would allow it based on me going back there to see her in Dec. I might take a gamble and buy her a ticket for say Oct to Nov or Dec.
Will decide what to do in the next day or so as we only have 18 days left to lodge an appeal.

I dont think you have Full Rights of Appeal, so I dont rate your chance of been granted an appeal.:NoNo:

[Englishman2010]

I dont think you have Full Rights of Appeal, so I dont rate your chance of been granted an appeal.:NoNo:

Probably not, but for the sake of completing a form, diggging out some more documents, writing a letter and giving up an hour to attend the hearing, I thinks it's worth trying.

[Englishman2010]

Appeal paperwork has been submitted in the UK today. Will have to see how long it takes now and what the final outcome is.

[Englishman2010]

It's been just over a week since I sent the appeal paperwork back by Guaranteed Next Day Delivery, so I called them today to check if they had received it and to find out if it was being processed.

i was told that there is currently a 3 week backlog to even log cases on to the computer, today they were working on cases received on the 12th or 13th of May:Brick:

I asked what the process for an appeal is, and was told:

When they have logged the appeal, they have 4 weeks to send the appeal paperwork and any further information back to the Embassy for them to reassess the information and reconsider. If they over turn the refusal there is no need to go to tribunal. However, the Embassy have up to 11 weeks to look at the paperwork.
It will only go to tribunal (with me present as both Representative and Sponsor) if the Embassy still refuse it after they have re-examined the file.

This is not going to be a quick process, but as it's costing me nothing to appeal theres nothing to lose. The timeframe also works to my advantage because I'm going back to the Phils for 2 weeks in 12 weeks time, so there's no point her coming here before I go out there anyway, and if it takes 3 or 4 months to get a decision, providing it is a yes, she then has 6 months from that date to come here (only problems is it will be autumn/winter then and I wanted her here during the summer).
Will advise you as and when futher developments happen.

[Steve.r]

I just don't understand the rules :Brick: People who have a genuine and honest reason for coming here get turned down by someone who probably got out of bed the wrong side that day.
I also might be looking into getting a visa sometime soon, but it seems like a real mine field. :cwm23:

[Englishman2010]

I just don't understand the rules :Brick: People who have a genuine and honest reason for coming here get turned down by someone who probably got out of bed the wrong side that day.
I also might be looking into getting a visa sometime soon, but it seems like a real mine field. :cwm23:

I think it is far harder to get a Tourist Visa than a Fiancee Visa Steve. If you apply for the latter you will have no problem proving your relationship is real.
The difficulty with the Tourist Visa is that she has to prove it is her intention to return home. I'm sure we would be fine with a Fiancee Visa, but I'm not quite ready to make that step. We'll see how it goes over the next year or so.

Good luck with your own plans, and I hope everything is going well for you over there:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[joebloggs]

I think it is far harder to get a Tourist Visa than a Fiancee Visa

your right there, becuase the visit visa has been abused so much by some people :NoNo:, the embassy have no optionm but to make it difficult to get and it effects genuine visitors

[Englishman2010]

your right there, becuase the visit visa has been abused so much by some people :NoNo:, the embassy have no optionm but to make it difficult to get and it effects genuine visitors

I'm hoping that by sending copies of my own flight schedules to the Philippines for Aug/Sept 2010 and Dec 2010/Jan 2011, they will realise that the window for her coming here is Oct/Nov 2010, and will also realise that I am not going to waste money booking a flight in Dec/Jan if I am not planning to go back there to see her. Therefore, she will return home at the end of November.

We'll see how it goes now, and if it is still refused it's not the end of the world. As per my other thread, hopefully she will have a job at a call centre soon anyway. Give it another 6 months or so, and providing her employer will allow her time off for 4 - 8 weeks, it might be far easier as there should be a genuine reason for her to return home.

That's my logic, but no guarantee the officer at the Embassy will see it that way.

[darren-b]

I'm hoping that by sending copies of my own flight schedules to the Philippines for Aug/Sept 2010 and Dec 2010/Jan 2011, they will realise that the window for her coming here is Oct/Nov 2010, and will also realise that I am not going to waste money booking a flight in Dec/Jan if I am not planning to go back there to see her. Therefore, she will return home at the end of November.

We'll see how it goes now, and if it is still refused it's not the end of the world. As per my other thread, hopefully she will have a job at a call centre soon anyway. Give it another 6 months or so, and providing her employer will allow her time off for 4 - 8 weeks, it might be far easier as there should be a genuine reason for her to return home.

That's my logic, but no guarantee the officer at the Embassy will see it that way.

The problem with your logic is they show what you are thinking (assuming the flights aren't refundable), but they don't show what your girlfriend is thinking. And it's her intentions that are important.

Work can help getting a visa. But compare what she will earn in a call centre in manila to what Filipinos think they can earn working illegally in London and you will realise why it won't guarantee a tourist visa on it's own.

[Englishman2010]

I fully understand what you are saying Darren, and being honest, I don't think that they will overturn the decision this time, but as it isn't going to cost me any more than the £70 I've already paid with the original application, there's no harm in trying

[darren-b]

I fully understand what you are saying Darren, and being honest, I don't think that they will overturn the decision this time, but as it isn't going to cost me any more than the £70 I've already paid with the original application, there's no harm in trying

It isn't going to cost you anything more directly, but processing appeals costs which the UKBA pays for using visa fees/tax payers money.

[Englishman2010]

It isn't going to cost you anything more directly, but processing appeals costs which the UKBA pays for using visa fees/tax payers money.

I hear what you are saying, but it isn't me wasting the Tax Payers money. My g/f would be a genuine visitor and I am a loyal, honest and law abiding British subject, and as such there was no good reason to refuse the visa.
I have been paying 40% tax all of my working life, and never claimed anything in benefits, so I think it's about time I got something back out of the system I have paid so much into.

edit - I am sponsoring her proposed visit and I see it as my duty to ensure that she returns home at the end of the stay and that she doesn't abuse the rules of entry into the UK. I would even be prepared to take an undertaking guaranteeing to underwrite the cost of finding and repatriating her if she absconded. I am that confident that she is genuine.

[belfast_dude]

sorry to hear that news dude.

[Englishman2010]

sorry to hear that news dude.

It's not the end of the world, a bit of a disappointment, but there's still plenty of time. If the appeal fails we can always try again next year, and if everything goes well, maybe try a Fiancee Visa in the future?

[alesypalsy]

I feel for you englishman, Also I am glad you appealed, You are fully entitled to appeal so I fully agree you should and hopefully you shall win!
I am rather surprised at darrens comments? Why be so nasty, the chap wants his girlfriend to visit him in uk on holiday, he's the one paying and like he says, he paid the £70 already so its not any more money to appeal. I pretty sure hes paid enough tax by the sounds of him,
anyway i wish you the best of luck and will follow this thread.
Cheers

[darren-b]

I feel for you englishman, Also I am glad you appealed, You are fully entitled to appeal so I fully agree you should and hopefully you shall win!
I am rather surprised at darrens comments? Why be so nasty, the chap wants his girlfriend to visit him in uk on holiday, he's the one paying and like he says, he paid the £70 already so its not any more money to appeal. I pretty sure hes paid enough tax by the sounds of him,
anyway i wish you the best of luck and will follow this thread.
Cheers

You seem to miss my point, appeals actually increase the cost of future visas which I presume he will at some point be applying for.

(I'm actually surprised that you can appeal tourist visas.)

[Englishman2010]

I feel for you englishman, Also I am glad you appealed, You are fully entitled to appeal so I fully agree you should and hopefully you shall win!
I am rather surprised at darrens comments? Why be so nasty, the chap wants his girlfriend to visit him in uk on holiday, he's the one paying and like he says, he paid the £70 already so its not any more money to appeal. I pretty sure hes paid enough tax by the sounds of him,
anyway i wish you the best of luck and will follow this thread.
Cheers

Thanks for your support and kind comments :xxgrinning--00xx3::xxgrinning--00xx3:. I don't think Darren meant anything nasty by his comment, he was just stating his opinion, which we are all entitled to do.

In my case, I feel that the officer who looked into the application seriously over looked the financial information we sent him, as well as my sponsor letter. If there were any doubt, he could have picked up the phone and called me or e-mailed me. Hence the decision to appeal.

Whether there should be an appeals process for Tourist Visas is a debate for another time. However, as the law stands currently, there is a process, and as a British tax payer I have every right to use that process. I don't think I've ever had good value for the tax I've paid over the last 23 years of my working life, so it's about time I got something back from the system I have worked hard to pay for

[Arthur Little]

Whether there should be an appeals process for Tourist Visas is a debate for another time. However, as the law stands currently, there is a process, and as a British tax payer I have every right to use that process. I don't think I've ever had good value for the tax I've paid over the last 23 years of my working life, so it's about time I got something back from the system I have worked hard to pay for

Very well said, mate ... MORE power to your "elbow" ... and all the best with the appeal! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Arthur Little]

I am rather surprised at darrens *comments? Why be so nasty, the chap wants his girlfriend to visit him in uk on holiday, he's the one paying and like he says, he paid the £70 already so its not any more money to appeal. I pretty sure hes paid enough tax by the sounds of him

:gp: ... they *DO read as being a bit rude - "holier than thou" even - given the circumstances.



:xxgrinning--00xx3: I don't think Darren meant anything nasty by his comment, he was just stating his opinion, *which we are all entitled to do.

:iagree: ... *but there ARE nicer, more friendly ways of doing it! A modicum of civility costs nowt!

[Englishman2010]

Very well said, mate ... MORE power to your "elbow" ... and all the best with the appeal! :xxgrinning--00xx3:

Many thanks Arthur:)

I chased the Appeals department today, and they have finally acknowledged receipt of the new paperwork. It should be sent to the Embassy in Manila sometime during the next 2 or 3 weeks. Upon receipt they will re-examine the file and either grant the visa this time or refuse it. There are no firm timescales for this, but the guy in the Uk said it usually takes the Embassies about 7 weeks.

[keithAngel]

The other point is that failed visa apps are a huge revenue stream good luck Englisman:xxgrinning--00xx3:

[Englishman2010]

Thanks Keith:xxgrinning--00xx3:
I'm going back out to the P.I for 2 and a half weeks in 9 weeks from today, TBH, I don't expect to hear an answer either way before I set off. I'm not building my hopes up anyway.

My g/f now has a job in a factory which she starts on Monday, I want her to have a good 6 months working hard so that she knows what work is. It might help her application if we re-apply in 6 months or so, subject to a further refusal on the appeal.