Can You Solve This Conundrum?

[lastlid]

My wife became friendly with a Filipina, when she was in the Philippines in July, when they were both taking their English Language test together. This particular lady successfully applied for a Spouse visa a couple of years ago, or so and seemingly spent 2 years or so here in the UK with her spouse. She is now applying for a Spouse visa again in Manila.

I wonder under what circumstances this might occur. I said to my wife that there is no need to return to Manila and reapply for a Spouse visa as my wife thought she would have to do the same.

My only thought is that for some reason she failed the ILR requirements and was forced to return to the Philippines. And apply for a SPouse visa again.

[grahamw48]

Maybe she spent more than the permitted (3 months ?) out of the UK in each of those years ?

[joebloggs]

she could have been refused ilr, maybe invalid app, didnt take the life in uk test, applied after her visa had expired???

possible she had ilr, but spend more than 2yrs outside the UK in one go, so lost her ILR. and back to square one.

[lastlid]

I see. I didnt know but kind of surmised that it would be something like that. Thanks. So evidently one would have to go back to square one again under such cirumstances........so a good reason to get it right the first time.

The other thing that came to light was that she (her friend) was interviewed by the UK embassy in London at some stage and was asked what side of the bed her husband slept on.

Anyhow, thanks. I can explain that to my Mrs so she doesn't think she has to re-apply as a matter of routine.

[grahamw48]

Aah, sounds like the immigration people were suspicious about the relationship then....a somewhat different angle.

Better make sure your Mrs. remembers then.

[lastlid]

Yes. Thanks. We started to discuss ILR for the first time at the weekend. She was under the misapprehension that she would naturally reapply when the Spouse visa expires, largely owing to her friends personal circumstance.

When I explained about the Life in the UK test she seemed a bit peeved that she had more studying to do. (I just said that we can afford to leave it for a year and then think about it more seriously then.)

[Terpe]

Yes. Thanks. We started to discuss ILR for the first time at the weekend. She was under the misapprehension that she would naturally reapply when the Spouse visa expires, largely owing to her friends personal circumstance.

When I explained about the Life in the UK test she seemed a bit peeved that she had more studying to do. (I just said that we can afford to leave it for a year and then think about it more seriously then.)

Just a heads-up on ILR. Apart from the Life in UK test you need to be thinking about gathering the required documentations now. These need to be spread over the 24 months as evidence of co-habitation throughout the ILR qualifying period.

[philuk]

if your wife cannot take the test for some reason before the end of the two year spouse visa she can apply here to have her spouse visa extended for another two years, but they will want to know why the test was not taken, in our case the wife gave birth and was too busy being a mum,
But once the visa is extended you dont have to wait to the end of it to apply for the ILR, apply as soon as she passes the test

[grahamw48]

That's a useful piece of info'.

[Terpe]

if your wife cannot take the test for some reason before the end of the two year spouse visa she can apply here to have her spouse visa extended for another two years, but they will want to know why the test was not taken, in our case the wife gave birth and was too busy being a mum,
But once the visa is extended you dont have to wait to the end of it to apply for the ILR, apply as soon as she passes the test

Phil,
This information could be very interesting and useful for others.

Can you confirm that your wife was granted an extension to her FLR(M) for an additional 2 years or was she actually granted Discretionary Leave to remain, which is given outside of the rules for exceptional cases?

Did you need to pay an additional application fee and supply any English Language certificate.

This case could be a very important precedent.
Sorry in advance if I've misunderstood your post.

[philuk]

Hi terpe, yes due to her giving birth 11 months after her arival here, and then being so busy withthe baby she was not able to find the time to study and take the test, so we applied for another two year FLR(M) if you check out the form FLR(M) there is a question on there asking why you have not taken the life in the uk test, this was three years ago, she did not need totake the esol test as her inglish was very confident,( she correct my gramar and spelling,
I just lifted this off the UK border web site,

"If you are applying for an extension of stay (rather
than indefinite leave to remain) even though you
have completed or are about to complete 2 years
permitted stay as the partner of the same person,
give the reason in section 4 of the application form
and explain in more detail in a letter if necessary.
Possible reasons are that you have not yet
obtained a relevant qualification demonstrating
your knowledge of the English language and life in
the UK; or that you prefer to apply for an extension
of stay because of personal circumstances to do
with your relationship with your partner.

its the same now as it was then, just apply for an extension of the spouse visa and explain why you have not taken the test, i think its about £850
Hope this helps terpe,

We have it all now inc british citizenship and reclaimed philppine citezenship. just glad its all over now, what a ball ache, they can go take a running jump now

[philuk]

ps definately an extension to her FLR(M), check out the guidlines for filling in the form on there web site

[Terpe]

ps definately an extension to her FLR(M), check out the guidlines for filling in the form on there web site

OK Phil thanks, seems you did this some time ago.

If an extension to FLR is needed these days it's a requirement now to apply only on form FLR(M) and to also submit an English Language pass certificate for any FLR(M) application.

Here's what UKBA now say:-
What if you can’t pass the Life in the UK test or gain an ESOL qualification before the end of your leave to enter or remain in the UK?
If you cannot obtain the relevant qualification before the end of your permitted stay, you should apply on form FLR(M) for an extension of stay in the category to give you time to obtain the necessary qualification.
If you apply for indefinite leave to remain but do not have the relevant qualification demonstrating your knowledge of language and life in the UK, your application will be refused without any refund of the application fee.

[philuk]

this is out of the same paragraph i lifted from there site,
"Possible reasons are that you have not yet
obtained a relevant qualification demonstrating
your knowledge of the English language and life in
the UK;"
This is one of there own possible reasons for wanting an extension to the FLR(M), as for the english language certificate i will have to read it further

[Terpe]

Phil, Life in UK is not needed for FLR, but English Language pass certificate is required for all applications of UK entry clearance or leave to remain in the UK as the partner of a British citizen or a person settled here.
This rule was implemented from 29 November 2010

[subseastu]

My missus is in the Uk now on a philippine passport with a ILR visa. She's never done the Living in the Uk test (she came to the UK in 2005). So my question is does she need to take the living in the Uk test if we're going for naturalisation?

[philuk]

ok i have double checked the guidelines and it definately states you can apply for an extension on form FLR(M) if you have not yet got relevent qualifications demonstrating knowledge of the "english language" and "life in the UK"

so an english language certificate is not required to extend a spouse visa on FLR(M) for a further two years so that you have time to obtain the said qualifications for ILR,

[philuk]

My missus is in the Uk now on a philippine passport with a ILR visa. She's never done the Living in the Uk test (she came to the UK in 2005). So my question is does she need to take the living in the Uk test if we're going for naturalisation?

Yes you will need the life in the uk test certificate to obtain british citizenship, we have friend in the same possition as your wife been here more than eight years, but now she still needs to take the test, to obtain citizenship

[subseastu]

Yes you will need the life in the uk test certificate to obtain british citizenship, we have friend in the same possition as your wife been here more than eight years, but now she still needs to take the test, to obtain citizenship

Cheers philuk. She should've done a long time ago but I got fed up telling her to do it. seems she might have got her .... in gear though now thank goodness

[philuk]

think i got this worked out
Anyone applying in the phils after november 2010, would have to have conform to the new regulations and take an english test to include the english pass cert.
Anyone here in the UK now wishing to extend there visa would have left the Phils before the new regs were implemented. so would not have an english test certificate, so if more time is needed to pass the test they are allowed to extend there FLR(M) stating the reason why they have not done it,
Lets face it, they are not going to deny an extension on the grounds you have not taken a test or could not speek fluent english, half the ruddy population would be sent home,

[joebloggs]

ok i have double checked the guidelines and it definately states you can apply for an extension on form FLR(M) if you have not yet got relevent qualifications demonstrating knowledge of the "english language" and "life in the UK"

so an english language certificate is not required to extend a spouse visa on FLR(M) for a further two years so that you have time to obtain the said qualifications for ILR,

that's how people who cant pass the 'life in uk test' in time or are taking a ESOL course can use to stay legally in the country and you can apply for FLR(M) at anytime before your current visa expires..

whether your granted 2 yrs or a few months will probably depend on why your applying for FLR.

[Terpe]

think i got this worked out
Anyone applying in the phils after november 2010, would have to have conform to the new regulations and take an english test to include the english pass cert.
Anyone here in the UK now wishing to extend there visa would have left the Phils before the new regs were implemented. so would not have an english test certificate, so if more time is needed to pass the test they are allowed to extend there FLR(M) stating the reason why they have not done it,
Lets face it, they are not going to deny an extension on the grounds you have not taken a test or could not speek fluent english, half the ruddy population would be sent home,

philuk,
Please don't take this personally, but that interpretation is just not correct.

I strongly suggested that anyone who will be making FLR application/extension MUST check that they have a pass certificate for English Language.
Additionally, they MUST check that the English Language certificate has been issued for both a UKBA approved test and by a UKBA approved provider as listed on the latest version of the UKBA approved listing.

The UKBA publication Information for applicants on the new English language requirement for partners highlights the following important information:-

What happens if I have been in the UK for 2 years and cannot meet the KOL requirements? Will I need to meet the new spouse requirement to be granted leave?
If you cannot meet the KOL requirement you will not be granted indefinite leave to remain unless you fall under an exemption.
Applicants who apply for further leave to remain on the basis of marriage using Form FLR (M) after an initial grant of leave in this capacity due to not meeting the KOL requirements for settlement are required to meet the new English language requirement to A1 level in line with other FLR(M) application from 29 November 2010

What happens if someone is granted entry clearance as a fiancé and was able to meet the English language requirement already. Do they still need to provide evidence of English when they make a spouse visa application and can they use the same test certificate?
They will still need to meet the English language requirement when they apply for their spouse application. They can use the same test certificate provided the test is on the current approved list of tests.
(For a recent example of refusal based on this see post #10 here)

Will I be able to apply for an exemption on exceptional compassionate circumstances if I apply for leave to remain in the UK?
It will be extremely rare for exceptional compassionate circumstances to apply when the applicant is applying in the UK for leave to remain. This is because it is very unlikely that they will be prevented from meeting the requirement given the access to a wide variety of facilities for learning English and taking the test in the UK.

[lastlid]

WOW. ILR. Not as clear cut as I thought it might be........

[lastlid]

Just a heads-up on ILR. Apart from the Life in UK test you need to be thinking about gathering the required documentations now. These need to be spread over the 24 months as evidence of co-habitation throughout the ILR qualifying period.

Yes. Thanks for that. I am struggling to get my wifes name registered to our address. I/We dont pay council tax as it isnt a requirement on IOM. I/We dont use gas. I/We pay our landlord for electricity. She doesnt have a bank account as she hasnt got proof of address yet and we aren't yet registered with the GP although this is ongoing just now.

[grahamw48]

TV licence ?

No need to answer on here.

[lastlid]

TV licence ?

No need to answer on here.

Yes I have one...... I seemed to read somewhere on here that the TV license cant go in joint name. But I will give it a go. Cheers.

[Terpe]

Yes. Thanks for that. I am struggling to get my wifes name registered to our address. I/We dont pay council tax as it isnt a requirement on IOM. I/We dont use gas. I/We pay our landlord for electricity. She doesnt have a bank account as she hasnt got proof of address yet and we aren't yet registered with the GP although this is ongoing just now.

It can often be a bit of a 'catch 22'

But just as a first step, had you considered a new joint bank account at your existing bank.
Take the option to have paper statements sent every quarter.

Also how about your water supplier.

Once she has proof of address there are probably a few other sources she could tap into.
Usually when registered at the GP she will receive an NHS medical card.
Also don't forget application for National Insurance.

Writing for confirmation of something from Inland Revenue or indeed the Home Office can also result in acceptable documentation.

Time for thinking caps I guess.... Good luck.

[joebloggs]

but the number of people who dont have the english language cert who are in the UK will be reducing all the time, as you have to have the cert now b4 they can apply for a visa from outside the uk

i've not read about anyone being deported or refused a visa becuase they dont have the english language cert in the uk yet

but any time soon there should be a court ruling about the english language cert, and go from past rulings, it will probably be ruled that it does infringe section 8 of the human rights act.

[lastlid]

It can often be a bit of a 'catch 22'
Also how about your water supplier.


Time for thinking caps I guess.... Good luck.

No water supply payments. On the island, if one rents, then the landlord pays the council tax and water rates (which is good - but not in this instance)

Like you say, thinking caps on..........

[grahamw48]

Rent book in joint names...with landlord's signature and address.

Letter from landlord.

Tenancy agreement in both names.

AA/RAC card/correspondence.

Mobile phone contracts.

Any kind of credit agreement.

Insurance policies, particularly contents (joint names).

Library membership, etc.

Catalogue accounts.

Garage bills + DVLC related stuff.

Joint savings account.

Any government correspondence.

You are dealing with civil servants.